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Star Wars Disenchantment

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48 minutes ago, Horner's Dynamic Range said:

Ever since Liam Neeson said he wanted to kill black people I just can't stand to watch The Phantom Menace.

 

wo wo wo

 

Sometimes, artists say things... and they regret them... ah.... artists.....

 

At least we know that he have nothing against jew, so you can still watch Schindler's List without any problems!

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11 hours ago, Horner's Dynamic Range said:

Ever since Liam Neeson said he wanted to kill black people I just can't stand to watch The Phantom Menace.

Justin, why should you care? You're not black, and, as far as I know, you've never raped anybody. But if you have...he possesses a certain set of skills, and he will find you, and he will kill you.

 

 

 

 

10 hours ago, Bespin said:

Sometimes, artists say things... and they regret them... ah.... artists.....

If his friend had said that her rapist was white, then this whole controversy (yeah, right; that's a good one!) would never have happened. Why do some people feel to need to always play the race card?

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He never said he would strike first; only if provoked. This sort of wish to anticipate and punish rascals and bullies if they dare to commit any more offenses again is natural for the human psyche. Quite irresponsible of him though to actually go out and tempt fate like this, and quite extreme that he persevered at doing this for a week, so no wonder he regrets it.

 

But he dug it up from early 1980s to mention it publicly, with conscience, as a warning. 

 

It only makes him more worthy of respect as a citizen, honestly.

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14 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

I understand he didn’t do anything.

He did have an intent of using deadly force beyond what constitutes reasonable measures of "defence of necessity" on purpose and

did what can be interpreted as provoking of violence by psychological means---if he walked around and gave angry stares for example

I don't know if walking around with a bat was legal back then and there. It probably was

 

Disclaimer: I do not know for sure what were the laws on such things 40 years ago in another country (or any country, for that matter)

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Ok, back on topic.  One of Matress's complaints is that Rey is a Mary Sue and that she can't possibly come from drunken traders.  Here's a video that addresses both of these:

 

 

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1 hour ago, Demodex said:

Ok, back on topic.  One of Matress's complaints is that Rey is a Mary Sue and that she can't possibly come from drunken traders.  Here's a video that addresses both of these:

 

 

If Rey was a clone of Starkiller, it would make all her abilities explained and him canon. Elegant. Dewit!

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I still firmly believe that the scene in which Kylo accesses her memories and recites what he sees back to her in TLJ is actually a massive red herring. He only can see what she thinks she knows about herself. It's not like he has an all knowing crystal ball because his only source of reference was what was in her mind. It may be true that she was raised by drunk idiots, and that she believes those people are her parents, but couldn't there be more to the story that she doesn't know about herself? Maybe she thought those people were actually her parents, but what if they stole her from her real parents and raised her to the age that she could be properly sold into slavery for good money? What if her real parents had no choice? Maybe they were being hunted and it was a drastic last resort to keep her alive?

 

Also, I like the idea of a big revelation happening in IX that completely flips the whole sequel trilogy on it's head. Why? Because when that sort of thing happens all of the sudden the movies you are so used to watching can be viewed again with completely fresh eyes. Now I'm not saying that she's a Kenobi or whatever, which I honestly wouldn't mind because her current trajectory and arc in the story is thinly veiled at best, but even if it's something along the lines of her real parents having intricate involvement in the story would be just fine as well. The problem with Rey is not so much that she is overpowered, I'm fine with that honestly, it's that everything happening around her is more interesting than her own story. Being a nobody who achieves great things is a nice message on the surface, but when she serves as merely a periscope to view the story and nothing much more aside from defeating the bad guy it's not very interesting. I still think that she should have been defeated in TFA by Kylo and only gotten away by the skin of her teeth, because it would have created a bigger drive to become what she needs to be. I also hate how she acted like she knew everything in TLJ and would argue with Luke, the most powerful and experienced Jedi alive at that point. Luke did kind of the same thing, but not to the point of being a complete contrarian and making Yoda look like a duffus.

 

And finally, every time she wields a lightsaber she looks like a total dork. Please work on that LFL.

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On 2/6/2019 at 9:39 PM, Demodex said:

 

😄😄😄😄😄

They already have. 

 

Confusion about what?  

Disappointment doesn't reign in the circles of fans that I know. We all loved TLJ. 

 

At this point in time, I suspect most fans do not "love" Rey; they recognize the charisma of Daisy Ridley and the potential of the character she portrays. But again, I do not think the majority of fans will accept Rey as a beloved figure of the franchise if she turns out to be a nobody from nowhere that needs no training to do everything. Hell, she has already beaten Kylo twice. 

 

As for confusion...

- Was the Republic aware of the First Order and the construction of their planet-destroying weapon? Did they even attempt to counter the First Order?

- How was the Republic's leadership & government so easily destroyed?

- Why is Leia in control of a "Resistance" that is (officially) unsupported by the Republic?

- How did Snoke remotely turn Ben to the Dark Side?

- While training at a Jedi academy under the instruction of his uncle, why would Ben have even been tempted to turn to the Dark Side?

- After failing Ben, why did Luke give up immediately?

- Who is Rey and why is she so powerful without any Force training? Days after the events of TLJ concluded, Rey wasn't even aware of the Force existed.

 

I know that some of these points are addressed in the novels, but the vast majority are not aware... and going into Episode IX, even most fans will not bother researching on their own.

 

Disappointment reigns among the fandom. This is indisputable. I no longer hear anyone call those disenchanted a 'vocal minority'. Based on YT countless videos, mainstream media article comments sections, and Twitter posts, I would call people largely pleased with the state of Star Wars and Lucasfilm a 'minority'.

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8 minutes ago, Mattris said:

But again, I do not think the majority of fans will accept Rey as a beloved figure of the franchise if she turns out to be a nobody from nowhere that needs no training to do everything. Hell, she has already beaten Kylo twice. 

 

In 1977 Luke Skywalker was basically a nobody, had no training, and blew up the entire Death Star.

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Rey's written as a bland character and nothing seems to happen to her because these new movies are mostly bland and unexciting. Daisy at least makes her likeable though.

 

They tried to spice things up a little bit in TLJ, especially with that awesome red palette, a bit of subversion, more realistic and relatable, and that boss rebel lady with the Dame Edna hairdo, but obviously not everyone liked the taste. So now they'll just return to the formula of blandness in order to please everybody.

 

I just kind of wish Rey was given some trials to face, like Anakin and Luke did. Anakin pretty much failed at everything, resulting in the loss of his Jedi-hood, most of his body and sanity, the death of his wife and the separation from his children. Once Luke was confronted with all this, he tried to commit suicide! Not to mention Luke seeing the burnt corpses of his aunt and uncle outside his house. Very dark and disturbing.

 

But Rey doesn't get anything dark and disturbing like that! The filmmakers have been mollycoddling her and giving her an easy run. Because Disney? I don't know. I wanna see something happen to her that's so godawful, that we cheer for her when she has to overcome this terrible trial.

 

But noooo, gotta think of the kiddies and the commercial tie-ins!

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49 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Disappointment reigns among the fandom. This is indisputable. I no longer hear anyone call those disenchanted a 'vocal minority'. Based on YT countless videos, mainstream media article comments sections, and Twitter posts, I would call people largely pleased with the state of Star Wars and Lucasfilm a 'minority'.

 

Again, you are wrong. The Last Jedi, despite the backlash from a portion of hardcore fans, is well-liked among the general public.

 

To date, it has a solid IMDb score, 1.3 billion in box office totals, is the best selling Blu-ray of 2018, received critical acclaim, and is still sitting pretty with an "A" CinemaScore.

 

Despite your incessant rants, only a minority hated it that, like you, continue to obsess over it and cannot stand that the film is widely seen as a success.

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11 minutes ago, dougie said:

porgy

 

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

Was the Republic aware of the First Order and the construction of their planet-destroying weapon? Did they even attempt to counter the First Order?

- How was the Republic's leadership & government so easily destroyed?

- Why is Leia in control of a "Resistance" that is (officially) unsupported by the Republic?

- How did Snoke remotely turn Ben to the Dark Side?

- While training at a Jedi academy under the instruction of his uncle, why would Ben have even been tempted to turn to the Dark Side?

- After failing Ben, why did Luke give up immediately?

- Who is Rey and why is she so powerful without any Force training? Days after the events of TLJ concluded, Rey wasn't even aware of the Force existed.

1. Old Empire generals, leaders, army and bureaucrats that never went away, obviously.  Plenty of resources and motivation.

2. Located on a few planets.  Besides, Russia in the 90s couldn't make a clean break from the Soviet era, hence, Putin.

3. Who knows.

4.Who knows.

5. Space-Human nature

6. ummm, 'cause Ben freaked out and destroyed things.

7. Rey does not need to be a somebody.  She was made too powerful, too soon.  No growth.

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1 hour ago, John said:

 

Again, you are wrong. The Last Jedi, despite the backlash from a portion of hardcore fans, is well-liked among the general public.

 

To date, it has a solid IMDb score, 1.3 billion in box office totals, is the best selling Blu-ray of 2018, received critical acclaim, and is still sitting pretty with an "A" CinemaScore.

 

Despite your incessant rants, only a minority hated it that, like you, continue to obsess over it and cannot stand that the film is widely seen as a success.

 

In fact, if we go deep into the fandom, we learn that The Last Jedi is the third most favorite Star Wars movie of all time!

 

https://www.starwars.com/news/poll-what-is-your-favorite-star-wars-movie

 

😲

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4 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

In 1977 Luke Skywalker was basically a nobody, had no training, and blew up the entire Death Star.

 

Wrong. Luke was the son of Jedi Knight Anakin Skywalker, who Obi-wan described as "the greatest star-pilot in the galaxy". Luke received some Force training from Obi-wan... and during the Battle of Yavin, Obi-wan reminded him to "use the Force". Luke even says to a Rebel pilot that he 'shot womprats in his T-16 back home' that were about the size of the Death Star's exhaust port. All of Luke successes were set-up.

 

So no, apart from being Force-sensitive protagonists from desert planets, Rey and Luke are not alike.

 

4 hours ago, John said:

Again, you are wrong. The Last Jedi, despite the backlash from a portion of hardcore fans, is well-liked among the general public.

 

To date, it has a solid IMDb score, 1.3 billion in box office totals, is the best selling Blu-ray of 2018, received critical acclaim, and is still sitting pretty with an "A" CinemaScore.

 

Despite your incessant rants, only a minority hated it that, like you, continue to obsess over it and cannot stand that the film is widely seen as a success.

 

How do you know TLJ "is well-liked among the general public"? If it was, why didn't the general public turn out for Solo like the did for Rogue One after the well-like TFA? Could it be that the majority of fans skipped it in protest?

 

The "solid IMDb score" is as irrelevant as the low Rotten Tomatoes score. "Critical acclaim" means next to nothing, as most 'critics' are Hollywood or media insiders who provide positive reviews for favors and access. CinemaScore only records opening-night reactions, which is not indicative of the audience members' opinions once they've had time to formulate a more complete assessment of the film. (If you honestly think that TLJ would receive an "A" average score now, I can't help you.)

 

TLJ's relatively high box office total was obviously due to the fact that it was the sequel to one of the most successful, anticipated, and promising movies of all time... so most people who saw TFA returned for TLJ. In total, TLJ made only 2/3 of TFA... and holds the record for the largest second weekend drop-off. But no one talks about that. 🤐

 

2 hours ago, Alexcremers said:

In fact, if we go deep into the fandom, we learn that The Last Jedi is the third most favorite Star Wars movie of all time!

 

Third in that poll only. I suspect that most people visiting StarWars.com since the poll was started (May 2018) support Lucasfilm and TLJ. Those who are disenchanted will avoid the site... and never take the poll.

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30 minutes ago, dougie said:

Luke being reduced to a depressed, broken shell of himself is more realistic than the infantile fantasy many fans had that he'd destroy the First Order with his giant laser dick.

 

They wanted Luke to become a Super Saiyan and obliterate the First Order in one almighty force blast.

images.png

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I've been developing a pet theory regarding the state of Disney and LFL's audience profiling and targeting for female demographics in the realm of Star Wars.

 

Now it seems there's a consensus among fans here at least that Rey was made too powerful too early. Then there's the view I stated above that two movies in, and she's been spared the grueling trials that her lead character predecessors were forced to endure.

 

Now, I think I have a behind-the-scenes reason for why this is the case - now gear up and prepare yourselves, because this is a distinctly Draxian view of this matter. Okay, I think women as a whole are highly resistant to seeing their fictional icons experience extreme forms of peril, danger or distress, and Disney knows this.

 

You might find that just weird, ridiculous and totally bogus, man. But here's some anacdotal evidence (I know it's tenuous,  but there's simply no other literature available to back this up that I know of). Now, everyone who knows me on this forum is aware that I watch daytime soaps, particularly The Bold and the Beautiful. Obviously, this show has a predominantly female audience worldwide (with weirdo exceptions like myself), and over the years I've been following the fan groups on social media. Here's a bit about what normally happens on these groups - whenever the showrunners decide to leave their comfort zone of basic romantic plotlines, they occasionally like to veer into thriller territory. This move by the writers is important because it shakes things up and makes the show more entertaining. But whenever this happens, often some of the well-liked female characters need to suffer a bit - it's inevitable. But when it does happen, here's the kicker - the female audience seems to absolutely hate it. I've personally seen the vitriol emerge on social media when the middle aged, unemployed single mums hit the Facebook group and spit out "No wai!!! This cant happen to Katie!! She doesnt deserve this!! Shame on you writers!! Im never watching this show again!!!"

 

I know it sounds like a stretch, especially using a daytime soap that all the manly men here are plain dismissive of, but I think it's an important insight into how these studios respond to predicted audience reactions. Essentially, Rey is exempt from experiencing the same level of perilous and depressing situations as Anakin or Luke because that would potentially alienate the female audience they're trying to court.

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Yeah, I supposed it'd be wierd to see Rey - for instance - getting the c*ap smacked out of her, in a way that we would have no trouble with seeing with a male lead; hence why it doesn't actually happen anywhere.

 

So poor ol' Finn has to take all the hits, instead!

 

 

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Even in Disney's Marvel films you generally don't see the male superheroes have their hands cut off. Films like these just arent as violent as they once were.

 

You wont see anything like Anakin activating his lightsaber to kill a bunch of children either. I'm not sure it has that much to do with gender. Lucas could be pretty bold when it comes to violence.

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I know it's a completely different genre with a much narrower target audience, but take the Happy Death Day movies for example, where we have a charismatic female lead character repeatedly endure every awful way to die imaginable. I ended up loving this character by the end of the first film because of all the development she demonstrates as a result of this horrible supernatural ordeal she's trapped in.

 

I'm not sure where I'm going with that one, but it's unfortunate that it takes a schlocky horror movie to create a fun and interesting heroine, whereas a mainstream tentpole series goes out of its way to create the blandest one possible for mass appeal.

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8 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

What was the most violent or gratuitous thing we have seen in Disney SW so far?

 

There was a mass execution at the opening of The Force Awakens which was quite effective. Not much violence is shown, but the way the villagers are rounded up at gun-point is very uncomfortable to watch. Its part of what makes the opening of the film as effective as it is. Otherwise, its been quite tame, and yet the films are PG-13.

 

I really respect Lucas for not holding too much on the violence in Revenge of the Sith. Its very effective.

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5 hours ago, Mattris said:

How do you know TLJ "is well-liked among the general public"? If it was, why didn't the general public turn out for Solo like the did for Rogue One after the well-like TFA? Could it be that the majority of fans skipped it in protest?

 

I'll just quote this post of mine here:

 

On ‎11‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 3:00 PM, John said:

Why Solo flopped:

 

- A general lack of interest in a spinoff about a character that died in another movie 3 years ago, and is now being portrayed by a different actor.

- Lackluster marketing. I think the trailers did an awful job at promoting this movie. The movie I saw felt wildly different than what the trailers/TV spots were trying to sell.

- Immense summer competition from Deadpool 2 and Infinity War.

- The movie just isn't all that great. Strip away all the references and callbacks and you have a generic heist movie. They should've delayed the film until December to give them time to tweak it until they got it right, instead of plopping a half-baked product in theaters that the average moviegoer has no idea is coming out.

 

TLJ backlash has next to nothing to do with Solo's box office failure.

 

5 hours ago, Mattris said:

The "solid IMDb score" is as irrelevant as the low Rotten Tomatoes score.

 

How? I typically don't use IMDb much at all, but it definitely is more verifiable and less prone to manipulation than RT's audience scores.

 

5 hours ago, Mattris said:

In total, TLJ made only 2/3 of TFA... and holds the record for the largest second weekend drop-off. But no one talks about that. 

 

Everyone, including top analysts, have consistently said that TFA is an anomaly, one of a kind and that its box office performance can't be compared to others.

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11 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

I really respect Lucas for not holding too much on the violence in Revenge of the Sith. Its very effective.

 

Agreed, but its not something I would expect a major studio would allow a major franchise to do nowadays.

 

The Prequels were basically big budget indie films.

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