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Star Wars Disenchantment


John

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On 5/13/2019 at 9:11 AM, The Original said:

George Lucas should've directed the sequel trilogy. 

 

Oh, fuck no!!  Lucas shouldn't direct anything else ever again. 

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3 hours ago, The Original said:

Yeah they're great!

 

You're insane. They're directed horribly. 

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We built a large rubber mannequin, really that we were able to move around from set to set. He had a big stick in his head that somebody could sit alongside and move the head back and forth and that was as much movement as we could get out of it.

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1 hour ago, Demodex said:

You're insane. They're directed horribly. 

 

Its more the writing that gets on my nerves.

 

But far be it from me to wish for someone to not make movies anymore. I remember Lucas being quite vocal about how disheartening the fan derision was, and I can empathize.

 

Its the same mindset that benched Sir David Lean for 12 years. Its just being mean.

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12 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

But far be it from me to wish for someone to not make movies anymore. I remember Lucas being quite vocal about how disheartening the fan derision was, and I can empathize.

 

Its the same mindset that benched Sir David Lean for 12 years. Its just being mean.

 

LUCAS RAPED MY CHILDHOOD MEMORIES!!!!11

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6 hours ago, Demodex said:

Lucas shouldn't direct anything else ever again. 

Actually, I got excited when I heard the rumors of Geogre Lucas scouting locations for a potential Kenobi spinoff. I would see him do that!

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Even his precious TPM he tried passing off to Spielberg, Zemeckis or Howard to direct before reluctantly seeing he has to do them or no one will.

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He was always said to not have a passion for directing.

 

But - at least partially because of fan reaction - he stopped making films allogether. He didn't produce and didn't write (with the exception of the story treatment for Kingdom of the Crystal Skull) anything since.

 

That's just sad. I mean, the man was in some way or another involved in quite a few all-timer films, and directed at least one, and while I agree that his filmmaking skillset is (and always was) very limited, I can't help but feel sad for him not pursuing his passion anymore.

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In Jedi, we've made several changes. When they go out to the Sarlacc Pit, before there was just a couple of tentacles and there was a kind of a funny looking mouth with a few spikes sticking out of it. It wasn't. There wasn't anything alive about the whole thing. So what we've managed to do is to take a and create kind of a beak that comes out and attacks him and more tentacles. 

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3 hours ago, Holko said:

Even his precious TPM he tried passing off to Spielberg, Zemeckis or Howard to direct before reluctantly seeing he has to do them or no one will.

Wait, wait... I never knew this! Are you saying Lucas did not intend to direct his prequels (or at least the first one)?? I was always under the impression that was his plan from day 1. 

 

And it’s hard to imagine that a director—especially his good friend Spielberg—would turn him down to direct Ep. I. At least without giving Lucas a good reason why (ie, the script), which would mean that Lucas would have realized his dialogue needed real work... which means  that the fact that he didn’t rewrite means that he ignored the advice of the man who directed the entire IJ trilogy...  can all that be possible?

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On 4/13/2019 at 4:14 AM, Chen G. said:

You don't just need to connect the nine movies: you need to show how the six previous films were incomplete were it not for the sequel trilogy.

 

Just bringing in The Emperor isn't going to suffice.

 

'The Emperor being brought back' is the reason that "the six previous films were incomplete." Hint: The 'Opera Scene' from ROTS.

 

On 4/14/2019 at 1:20 AM, Chen G. said:

If it was you'd expect some build-up towards it. I can't think of anything in either of the previous two films (Luke mentioning Darth Sidius doesn't count) that prefigures his return, in body or spirit.

 

In TFA: Rey was presented as having no explanation for affinity for the Force... and had no natural heritage (just like Anakin, who was implied to have been created by Palpatine or his master). Snoke and Kylo were intrigued with her existence and seemed to know something (that they didn't specify). Anakin's lightsaber 'called to' Rey - the lightsaber that the newly-appointed Darth Vader used to fight Obi-Wan, as well as kill Jedi at the Jedi temple... at the behest of Palpatine.

 

In TLJ: Rey selfishly went "straight to the Dark" against Luke's commands to "resist it". The Dark Side cave mirrors showed her reflection only: that she has/had no parents. She pulled Anakin's lightsaber on Luke as a threat and then, with Kylo's saber, tried to kill Snoke in anger. The Emperor's Theme was played note-for-note as she was tortured by Snoke.

 

On 4/14/2019 at 1:20 AM, Chen G. said:

I understand some of this is taken from an idea for The Force Awakens which was turned down. So they did think about it in 2015, but they didn't plan for it to be in IX until they got around to working on it.

 

On 4/14/2019 at 1:48 AM, Chen G. said:

... planning ahead when you produce the films separately, with different screenwriters, directors and creative teams on each entry is almost like having no planning at all. You leave too much of the overriding story to be twisted out of the shape through the interpertation of the individual filmmakers.

 

On 4/14/2019 at 1:21 AM, Stefancos said:

I honestly don't believe for a second that Palpatine returning was something they originally thought off.

 

The new canon material - released starting in 2015 - specifically mentions Palpatine numerous times... specifically on Jakku, constructing a Contingency laboratory... that came into play during the massive Battle of Jakku, which resulted in the final blow to the Empire. This proves that Palpatine was planned to return (in some way) from the inception of the Sequel Trilogy. Everything was planned meticulously. This is indisputable.

 

On 4/13/2019 at 2:17 PM, Stefancos said:

On a more presonal note, let me just go on record as saying that there's no place for fakes, charlatans, tricksters like you in a desent forum!

 

The working title for Episode IX was trIXie. Once TROS is out, people will realize that this title was chosen quite deliberately.

 

On 4/14/2019 at 2:09 AM, Stefancos said:

Or:

 

"We live in an age of fan-nostalgia and wanna give the audience more of what they already had, because we know its the easiest and most certain way to turn a massive profit."

 

Ultimately, the Sequel Trilogy will be much different than "what they already had". In presenting this trilogy in the way they have, it's clear that maximum profit was not the film-makers' intent.

 

On 4/29/2019 at 6:45 PM, Demodex said:

https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2470995/so-many-people-are-going-to-galaxys-edge-disneyland-has-to-actually-expand-entryway

 

@Mattris

Boy, Disney really shot itself in the foot with this Star Wars theme park that's sure to lose money. 

 

I never implied that the parks would loose money.

 

On 4/29/2019 at 10:42 PM, The Original said:

Anyone else gonna spoil themselves before this movie comes out?

 

I can spoil the movie, if you want.  :biglaugh:

 

On 5/13/2019 at 8:03 AM, Chen G. said:

Its not too much (its not like he had full scenes or characters like Count Dooku in his mind back in 1997) but its enough of a shape to at least give the three films a sense of cohesion which is unique among the three Star Wars trilogies.

 

Once you've seen TROS, you will need to revise this statement.

 

On 5/13/2019 at 8:52 AM, Chen G. said:

But the story had reached its conclusion in Return of the Jedi.

 

Only considering the OT (in isolation), I would agree. But with the Prequels shedding new light on the overall story, can you explain how you think Episode VI concluded the Saga?

 

On 5/13/2019 at 10:49 PM, crumbs said:

What the sequel trilogy might lack in an overarching plan, it makes up with quality film-making and well drawn characters. Not to mention significantly more energetic direction and actors delivering solid performances (it probably helps when they're not delivering dialogue as clunky as Lucas', to tennis balls on sticks).

 

You will realize that the sequel trilogy did not "lack in an overarching plan". The substantive events and character actions in TFA and TLJ - as they relate to each other, the canon material, and the first six Episodes - prove they had a plan.

 

On 5/14/2019 at 6:08 AM, Arpy said:

It's like Avatar: The Last Airbender and The Legend of Korra, It began and ended with Aang's story, but it was later continued as Korra's. It was Luke's story in the OT, and now it's Rey's in the ST.

 

The Sequel Trilogy is not Rey's. She did not receive Jedi training, nor is she on the Hero's Journey.

 

On 5/14/2019 at 6:27 AM, Arpy said:

The Legend of Korra is a continuation of Avatar, a show about the reincarnation of a spirit through avatars...

 

You might be onto something, there.

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5 hours ago, Bayesian said:

Wait, wait... I never knew this! Are you saying Lucas did not intend to direct his prequels (or at least the first one)?? I was always under the impression that was his plan from day 1. 

 

And it’s hard to imagine that a director—especially his good friend Spielberg—would turn him down to direct Ep. I. At least without giving Lucas a good reason why (ie, the script), which would mean that Lucas would have realized his dialogue needed real work... which means  that the fact that he didn’t rewrite means that he ignored the advice of the man who directed the entire IJ trilogy...  can all that be possible?

 

Howard says it was an informal offer to just consider considering it, without script or anything, and he immediately said it was too daunting and George should do it. Similar with Zemeckis and Spielberg. So George knew he was not good enough and never really liked directing anyway.

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Too sure of himself he is...

 

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

'The Emperor being brought back' is the reason that "the six previous films were incomplete."

 

Maybe, but (in theory) audiences will only "realize" it was incomplete in the process of watching Rise of the Skywalker (damn! That's still such a dumb title). Its something that should have been made clear early in the course of The Force Awakens.

 

If you look closely, you can see Rian Johnson trying to "justify" the sequel trilogy, especially in providing a payoff to "pass on what you have learned." But its too little, too late, and I fear the same will be true of Rise of the Skywalker.

 

They're hardly bad movies (actually, they're quite good) but - as entries in a film series - their existence remains redundant, and will likely remains so after Rise of the Skywalker. I find it significant, because what's the point of a film series if not to tell a story which is too big for any one film?

 

We shall see...

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Here's my advice, Disney: do what you want with Star Wars, then broom it fast.

 

 

At this point, I think the major thing driving Star Wars is people who have grown up either with the originals or the prequels. It's too much to completely assume that my school is a microcosm for the child population of the US at large, but none of my kids really care about Star Wars. They never talk about it with each other, they never play Star Wars on the playground, none of them dress up as Star Wars characters for Halloween...I think after The Force Awakens came out I saw maybe two or three kids with a Kylo Ren backpack, and there's one kindergartner with a Vader beanie, but other than that, I just don't see any sticking power with them.

 

The Marvel movies have all but dominated those elements for them.

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4 minutes ago, The Original said:

Star Wars: The Last Jedi is the stupidest movie ever made. It ruined everything, and not just Star Wars movies but everything...

 

No, because apparently it was all a part of the plan! Rian Johnson is a genius now, and Star Wars is better than ever! 

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9 hours ago, Arpy said:

The sequel trilogy isn't Rey's? @Mattris 

 

You sure about that?

 

Yes, that's the big twist. I recognized that Rey was not on the Hero's Journey. JJ is not going to to alter her story in the final Episode, at least from what he originally intended.

 

8 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Maybe, but (in theory) audiences will only "realize" it was incomplete in the process of watching Rise of the Skywalker (damn! That's still such a dumb title). Its something that should have been made clear early in the course of The Force Awakens.

 

If you look closely, you can see Rian Johnson trying to "justify" the sequel trilogy, especially in providing a payoff to "pass on what you have learned." But its too little, too late, and I fear the same will be true of Rise of the Skywalker.

 

They're hardly bad movies (actually, they're quite good) but - as entries in a film series - their existence remains redundant, and will likely remains so after Rise of the Skywalker. I find it significant, because what's the point of a film series if not to tell a story which is too big for any one film?

 

We shall see...

 

"Rise of the Skywalker" is a dumb title. The actual title is "The Rise of Skywalker".

 

'Audiences will only realize it was incomplete in the process of watching TROS' because they missed all if the clues in TFA that hint at the plot... notably the scene featuring Kylo speaking to Darth Vader's helmet: "Show me again the power of the Dark." "I will finish what you started." And then to his father: "I know what I have to do, but I don't know if I have the strength to do it. Will you help me?"

 

Then in TLJ: Kylo betrayed his master, told Rey to 'let go of the past', and asked her to join him again. Why do you suppose he did those things?

 

The trilogy was presented as a mystery... not "made clear" on purpose. If the Sequel Trilogy's plot was made immediately evident, it would not have been nearly as intriguing or memorable.

 

Once again... considering the OT in isolation, I would agree that the story had reached its conclusion with Return of the Jedi. However, the Prequels shed new light on the overall story. With the Sith destroyed (at the end of ROTJ), only the Jedi remained. In the Star Wars galaxy, that is not balance. The Saga was not complete. Hence, the Sequel Trilogy justifies its existence.

 

@Chen G. How did Luke 'pass on what he had learned' in TLJ? He said, "It's time for the Jedi to end." 

 

2 hours ago, Nick Parker said:

... I just don't see any sticking power with them.

 

If JJ does what I think he has in store, the ST will have major sticking power.

 

1 hour ago, The Original said:

Star Wars: The Last Jedi is the stupidest movie ever made. It ruined everything, and not just Star Wars movies but everything...

 

While TLJ contains substantive elements, its undesirable/unexpected moments distracted and clouded the minds of many. (It happened to me, but I have seen through Lucasfilm's charade.) It ruined nothing*. All will make sense in the end.

 

except for lightspeed being used as a weapon

 

1 hour ago, Nick Parker said:

No, because apparently it was all a part of the plan! Rian Johnson is a genius now, and Star Wars is better than ever! 

 

Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design.

 

- The Emperor in ROTJ

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4 minutes ago, Mattris said:

If JJ does what I think he has in store, the ST will have major sticking power.

 

 

You think it's going to suddenly capture the imagination of a generation of children who have been completely apathetic to the previous movies?

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43 minutes ago, Nick Parker said:

You think it's going to suddenly capture the imagination of a generation of children who have been completely apathetic to the previous movies?

 

The completed ST will make sense of the perceived chaos ("No plan!"), which will lead many previously-apprehensive parents to finally accept Star Wars under Disney. Many of these parents will then confidently show the new Star Wars content (movies, shows, games, etc.) it to their children, who will become new SW fans.

 

At least Disney hopes this will be the case.

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3 hours ago, Mattris said:

 

The completed ST will make sense of the perceived chaos ("No plan!"), which will lead many previously-apprehensive parents to finally accept Star Wars under Disney. Many of these parents will then confidently show the new Star Wars content (movies, shows, games, etc.) it to their children, who will become new SW fans.

 

At least Disney hopes this will be the case.

 

If there's any, and I mean _any_, thing Star Wars _doesn't_ need to worry about, it's lack of exposure. And how many Star Wars fans hated the prequels but had to begrudgingly accept that their kids loved them just as much if not more than the originals? To a kid, and I say this growing up with the prequels, Star Wars is Star Wars. If a parent blocks a kid from watching anything just 'cause they personally think it's dumb, that's a weird-ass parent. How much stupid garbage did we get into as children, that you can guarantee our parents begged to pass over? Honestly in a weird way I really look forward to that aspect of being a parent someday. I'm still reeling with guilt over Pokemon cards.

 

Ultimately, I'm not saying there aren't kids out there who love Star Wars now, and again, that my school is an accurate sample of the tastes of children across the country. But, if they _are_ an indicator, I'm thinking that maybe Disney overestimated, as most of us probably have, Star Wars' ultimate reach as a pop culture phenomenon. 

 

Not that that's a bad thing, just saying what I see. 

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Using facts and logic, I am sure, @Chen G.. How are you so sure that I'm incorrect in my assessments? What have I said that you disagree with? Want to have a crack at answering my questions within my posts on this page, specifically how the Saga is finished when incorporating the Prequels into the overall story? Or are you now only going to respond to me sarcastically?

 

Also, what kind of company repeatedly exclaims that they don't have a plan regarding a multi-billion-dollar movie franchise?

 

Answer: A company with a plan - deceiving the masses through to the end - for maximum impact. A bit trIXie, wouldn't you say?

 

I'll even bet that Mark Hamill was in on this deception from the beginning. All his many appearances in which he was upset at the direction of Luke Skywalker were an act, with Lucasfilm paying him well to maintain it. Shortly after IX comes out, he will reveal this in his Joker voice.

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I don't know how to make this clearer, but here we go:

 

HAVING A PLAN IS  M O R E   COMMERCIALY DANGEROUS  THAN NOT HAVING ONE.

 

When you have a plan, it makes writing the individual entries (which are done by different people) much more difficult, and you're not leaving yourself as much leeway if one the films takes an unwanted turn with audiences.

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