Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 52 minutes ago, JoeinAR said: They are trash. Bad films bad acting directing surprisingly bad effects that do not hold up and with the exception of TPM mediocre Williams scores Chen you have never seen the original Star Wars. Few herr have. 1 hour ago, dougie said: But that's part of their schlocky matinee serial charm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post John 2,032 Posted February 4, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted February 4, 2019 There is a certain charm to TPM that I find appealing. It doesn’t take itself as seriously as AOTC or ROTS. Holko, Fabulin, Chen G. and 3 others 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 And, I have to say, for a film in the action-adventure genre, it does action and adventure quite well. You have outer space, a jungle world, an underwater world, a desert world, an hyper-urban world - all in one film, which is neat, and a lot of those environments still look great. Some of the action, too, is great. I'm thinking the podrace (even though I would've cut it a bit shorter) and the final swordfight. Fabulin and The Illustrious Jerry 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 2 hours ago, Chen G. said: there's no use of slow-motion Oh, that settles it. Terrible film. Just for the record: the fimmaking on display in Star Wars is not at all bad. But Empire is much, much better. Fabulin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 2 hours ago, Chen G. said: That kind of understated directing will have worked for 70s audiences, but quite simply was not going to fly in 2015. People in the 70s just weren't as woke or sophisticated as they are in the 2010s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 13 minutes ago, SteveMc said: Oh, that settles it. Terrible film. Just for the record: the fimmaking on display in Star Wars is not at all bad. But Empire is much, much better. No. STAR WARS is the better film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Empire is better shot. Star Wars is better structured. The Illustrious Jerry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Empire is darker and more disturbing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Empire is better in absolutely everything other than the score, and even that gets very close to topping it. 43 minutes ago, SteveMc said: Just for the record: the fimmaking on display in Star Wars is not at all bad. But Empire is much, much better. I never said anything about it being bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 No, maybe not, but frankly I don't find the use of slow-motion to be a criterion for remarkable camerawork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 I merely used it as one example of its unadorned, understated visual style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Which, is a strength, not a weakness. Grounds the film, makes the otherworldly locales and technology instantly accessible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chen G. 3,949 Posted February 4, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted February 4, 2019 In some ways - definitely. Its kind of the opposite of The Last Jedi, which feels directed, to a fault. I do think films like Empire Strikes Back and The Force Awakens strike a nicer balance, where the camera is doing interesting things, but still your attention is never drawn to it too much. That is all. The Illustrious Jerry, SteveMc and Bayesian 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 1 hour ago, dougie said: Empire is darker and more disturbing... Actually it isn't. The destruction of an entire planet is damned dark event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 4, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted February 4, 2019 8 minutes ago, JoeinAR said: Actually it isn't. The destruction of an entire planet is damned dark event. It didn't have slow motion photography, so it didn't have the impact it should have. Chen G., SteveMc, JoeinAR and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,524 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Both films are about as dark as a vanilla milkshake...but they're great to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Vanilla extract is dark..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Let's go out for some frawsty chawklate milkshakes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 1 minute ago, SteveMc said: Vanilla extract is dark..... Very dark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,524 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Both films are about as dark as a glass of milk...but they're both fun to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 15 minutes ago, Richard said: Both films are about as dark as a glass of milk...but they're both fun to watch. They are that. But people caught up analyzing films and score sometimes/oftentimes forget to simple feel it instead. You do not get run from analyzing. crumbs and Chen G. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattris 416 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 On 1/11/2019 at 8:47 PM, Arpy said: The Last Jedi is a masterpiece, quite possibly the best film ever made. The way it subverted the apes' expectations was particularly clever on tRIANmphent Johnson's part, making everyone hate it and then, when J.J. returns for the final installment, people will herald it as a masterstroke, realizing once and for all The Last Jedi was not a failure, but one piece of a larger picture! The Last Jedi is a dumpster fire, quite possibly the most disappointing film ever made. The way it subverted the fans' expectations was particularly foolish on RUIN Johnson's part, making everyone despise Disney Star Wars. And when J.J. returns for the final installment, people will call it 'too little, too late' and 'one piece of a larger failure', proving once and for all that agenda-driven individuals - who dismissed and insulted the fans - attempted to destroy Star Wars and rebuild it in their own image - but utterly failed. On 2/3/2019 at 4:40 PM, John said: ffs it's been over a year, just let it go Not a chance. Time will not change what the keepers of Star Wars have done. Unless they apologize for the accusations and insults and/or let KK and/or RJ go, the boycott will be quite operational when Episode IX arrives. On 2/3/2019 at 4:42 PM, Demodex said: Don't worry. I'm sure Abrams will retcon everything in TLJ. Luke knows what someone who falls to Dark Side is capable of so it doesn't surprise me he would try to snuff it out before Ben commits atrocity. He admits he was wrong for doing what he did. As far as abandoning his family, Obi Wan and Yoda went into hiding too, so it's not that much of a stretch that Luke would go into isolation. Luke should have tried to 'snuff out the Dark Side in Ben' before that night... or talked to him the next day. Instead, Rian Johnson chose to disgrace him - plain and simple. And RJ will never admit that he was wrong for portraying him in that way. The difference is, Obi-Wan and Yoda attempted to defeat their enemies before going into hiding. Luke approached his problems in the worst way. He avoided confrontation with Ben, considered assassination... but was caught, and then gave up immediately, went into isolation, and died alone - needlessly, in my opinion. On 2/3/2019 at 4:54 PM, The Illustrious Jerry said: Mattris, You continue to complain about a trilogy that, may I remind you, hasn't even concluded yet. So wait for nine, everything will be fine. So you admit that, at this time, things are not "fine"? On 2/3/2019 at 7:44 PM, Arpy said: @Mattris I think you mean 'succumb', not 'cecum'? Who gives a shit either way if Luke consciously acted on murdering Ben? From Luke's own perspective he was: A) Emotionally compromised and B) Acted on pure impulse and instinct because he believed in that moment that Ben was a threat. Either way, that was the point of Luke's failure, and as a flawed individual who then went into exile. He realized in the moment he went to strike Ben that it was a mistake, and then shit hit the fan when Ben realized and thought he was being betrayed by his uncle. Yes, 'succumb' was what I meant. Who gives a shit if Luke consciously acted on murdering Ben? Most of the fans do, many who have given up on Disney Star Wars. Disney shareholders will also not be pleased that Star Wars is in decline. A) If Luke thought that Ben was "emotionally compromised" and "believed in that moment that Ben was a threat" and "felt the Dark Side within him in moments in his training", why didn't he attempt to talk to him... or subdue him... or warn others? B) Everyone knows that Luke was "a flawed individual". But a Jedi Academy Instructor would never ignite a lightsaber to KILL someone in cold blood, much less a sleeping student. An act so dastardly can never be "pure impulse and instinct", even if he acted on fear of a possible future. Luke may have immediately regretted what he had done, but he acted consciously. On 2/3/2019 at 7:47 PM, Demodex said: People like Mattress can't deal with Luke being a flawed individual. Wrong. Luke was always flawed. That's what made him interesting and relatable... unlike Rey. On 2/3/2019 at 10:56 PM, crumbs said: How fucking great is The Last Jedi? Easily the best Star Wars film since Empire. By the fans' standard, that's not even remotely correct. ROTJ or ROTS would win that poll. TLJ would be towards the bottom of the list. On 2/3/2019 at 11:33 PM, crumbs said: A few silly missteps with pacing and plot contrivances but overall the most solid sequel since Empire. Keep telling yourself that, but it won't save TLJ from be remembered as the movie that broke the fandom... and was the primary cause of a Star Wars film loosing money at the box office. (That, and also the studio - and the studio-friendly media's - response to the backlash... and the fact that SOLO was essentially made twice due to awful leadership.) You will never convince those that have realized that Disney are shoveling Star Wars-branded crap. 18 hours ago, Stefancos said: The Force Awakens is Disney showing the world that Star Wars can be fun again. It was very carefully created to do this. The Force Awakens is Disney showing the world that Star Wars can be entirely unoriginal and safe... to a fault. It was very carefully created to make lots of money. Shame they couldn't keep the 'success ball' rolling... and keep from insulting the fans. 17 hours ago, JoeinAR said: They are trash. Bad films bad acting directing surprisingly bad effects that do not hold up and with the exception of TPM mediocre Williams scores Chen you have never seen the original Star Wars. Few herr have. The prequels have issues, but a solid story was their strength. So far, solid story-telling is the sequel trilogy's biggest weakness. Demodex 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post SteveMc 2,674 Posted February 5, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted February 5, 2019 How Mattris views himself: How Others View Mattris: Kasey Kockroach, The Illustrious Jerry, Holko and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted February 5, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted February 5, 2019 18 minutes ago, Mattris said: a dumpster fire 19 minutes ago, Mattris said: is 19 minutes ago, Mattris said: what I 20 minutes ago, Mattris said: be heh The Illustrious Jerry, SteveMc, Holko and 2 others 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 43 minutes ago, Mattris said: The prequels have issues, but a solid story was their strength. So far, solid story-telling is the sequel trilogy's biggest weakness. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha You could be more wrong but not by a lot. The prequels feature the worst stories and worst writing of the saga. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John 2,032 Posted February 5, 2019 Author Share Posted February 5, 2019 At this point the only thing that will save this thread from the pits of irrelevance is a smackdown between Joe and Mattriss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Star Wars movies have no story, thus there cannot be a worst one. Unlucky Bastard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Star Wars is about a whiney turd who gets magic powers and screws up millions of lives. Substitute magic powers with the ability to post on a forum and it is the story of Mattris. crumbs and Not Mr. Big 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattris 416 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 2 hours ago, Knox Harrington said: Star Wars is about a whiney turd who gets magic powers and screws up millions of lives. Substitute 'whiney turd' with 'forced feminist crusader wannabe', 'magic powers' with 'control of Lucasfilm', and it is the story of Kathleen Kennedy. Oh, and substitute 'Star Wars' with 'the destruction of Star Wars'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Do you think Rey is Kathleen Kennedy's "avatar", so to speak? The cinematic embodiment of who and what she wants to be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,313 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 So essentially... Rey, Kathleen Kennedy's metaphorical avatar, has been intricately manufactured for the single purpose of triggering every single thing Mattress despises. Wow, now I love her even more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 It'd be nice if she had boobs though. Her great legs make up for it I 'spose. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattris 416 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 46 minutes ago, crumbs said: So essentially... Rey, Kathleen Kennedy's metaphorical avatar, has been intricately manufactured for the single purpose of triggering every single thing Mattress despises. Wow, now I love her even more! So far, Rey's origin has not been explained. But all characters that have met her like her. She acquires skills with no training, succeeds at nearly everything she does, and moving forward, will be inspirational leader. She is not Kathleen Kennedy's metaphorical avatar in the slightest. And if you like Rey more because I do not care for her, you are a sad person. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 16 minutes ago, Mattris said: Rey's origin has not been explained. Her origin has been explained: she's an orphan scavenger from some sh*thole in the Galaxy. 'nough said. Its a very well-trodden road for protagonists, true, but its still an effective one, for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Chen G. said: Her origin has been explained: she's an orphan scavenger from some sh*thole in the Galaxy. 'nough said. Yeah but that came from the decanonised TLJ. As far as Mattris is concerned, she's still Luke's daughter and her mother is Mara Jade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 I never understood that expectation, and I actually say that to the detriment of the film. This movie subverts things that were always going to be too stupid to be proven right: e.g. Rey being a character of some significant lineage, and especially the concept of either her or Kylo changing sides. Both are idiotic concepts, so to lead the audience on as though they may be true only to make such a big twist out of them being untrue, is nothing short of a gross underestimation of the audience's intelligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattris 416 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 12 minutes ago, Chen G. said: Her origin has been explained: she's an orphan scavenger from some sh*thole in the Galaxy. 'nough said. Its a very well-trodden road for protagonists, true, but its still an effective one, for the most part. If it is confirmed in Episode 9 that Rey is just "an orphan scavenger from some sh*thole in the Galaxy" with no further explanation, then the movie will bomb, and the entire trilogy will have been a waste of time, concern, and money for the majority of Star Wars fans. An explanation of her origin and substantial powers absolutely must be presented in IX. Demodex and Fabulin 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, Mattris said: the movie will bomb Ain't no chance Episode IX will bomb. Hell, If it so much as makes under one billion dollars, I'd be beyond shocked. Its okay that you don't like the sequel trilogy (I'm starting more and more to think of it as redundant, myself) but come on... Technically, we got an explanation of her powers in The Last Jedi. Is it a terribly satisfying one? No, but its there. Since any such revelation is not going to affect her actual character, and being that its going to make this series feel that much more like a tiny soap-opera, I don't see the point of giving her a lineage of any significance whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Yes, someone using the Force must mean she's somebody! It's not like Force users were born to completely random parents for thousands of years, then taken away by the Jedi Order at all... Chen G. and crumbs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, Chen G. said: Technically, we got an explanation of her powers in The Last Jedi. What was that again? I've forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docteur Qui 1,544 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 10 minutes ago, Mattris said: If it is confirmed in Episode 9 that Rey is just "an orphan scavenger from some sh*thole in the Galaxy" with no further explanation, then the movie will bomb, and the entire trilogy will have been a waste of time, concern, and money for the majority of Star Wars fans. An explanation of her origin and substantial powers absolutely must be presented in IX. The delusion and entitlement is strong with this one. The entire trilogy will have been a waste of time if they go back on a significant theme of TLJ which is that the Force can be wielded by anybody, and that greatness can come from the humblest of places. I guess you haven't watched it a second time though, so I don't blame you for missing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Just now, Docteur Qui said: the Force can be wielded by anybody Assuming they possess a high enough midichlorian count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 2 hours ago, dougie said: What was that again? I've forgotten. Something along the line of her being born to balance out Kylo. Its somewhere in Snoke's endless monologuing. I think the real culprit here is Return of the Jedi. Empire had this incredible twist, and here come Lucas and Kasdan and recycle it by making Leia Luke's sister (wtf?!), and since than the series is playing that same note over and over again. Appearantly, not one can think of a twist better than someone being or not being someone else's relative. 2 hours ago, Docteur Qui said: a significant theme of TLJ which is that the Force can be wielded by anybody, But of course it can't, so that's not really a satisfying conclusion to be walking away from the film with. Unlucky Bastard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Docteur Qui said: the Force can be wielded by anybody no no no, that's phrased very badly and they don't like that. Anyone could be born a Force user from any place, you don't have to have the greatest lineage or anything for it. Broom Boy didn't pull that broom by suddenly wishing for it, he was born with the ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Just now, Chen G. said: Something along the line of her being born to balance out Kylo. Its somewhere in Snoke's endless monolouging. I think the real culprit here is Return of the Jedi. Empire had this incredible twist, and here come Lucas and Kasdan and recycle it by making Leia Luke's sister, and since than the series is playing that same note over and over again. Appearantly, not one can think of a twist better than someone being or not being someone else's relative. I'd thought of this too, that some of the films had conditioned many fans into expecting that everyone of narrative significance was biologically related somehow, and the "I am your father" twist would be repeated continually. SteveMc and Chen G. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docteur Qui 1,544 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, Chen G. said: But of course it can't, so that's not really a satisfying conclusion to be walking away from the film with. By that I mean "The Force can be wielded by a person from anywhere", not that any old person can use its power. It's really just the ending of Ratatouille: "Not everyone can become a great artist, but a great artist can come from anywhere" 2 minutes ago, Holko said: no no no, that's phrased very badly and they don't like that. Anyone could be born a Force user from any place, you don't have to have the greatest lineage or anything for it. Broom Boy didn't pull that broom by suddenly wishing for it, he was born with the ability. See my above comment Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Ratatouille! Ha! Actually yeah, pretty much, Your original comment was still terribly phrased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docteur Qui 1,544 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Yeah fair enough, but I clarified it pretty quickly so eh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattris 416 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 11 minutes ago, Chen G. said: Hell, If it so much as makes under one billion dollars, I'd be beyond shocked. 14 months ago, would you have guessed that the fandom would be split in half after TLJ... that SOLO would have lost $200M... and that the Star Wars consumer products division is costing Disney money? 7 minutes ago, Holko said: Yes, someone using the Force must mean she's somebody! It's not like Force users were born to completely random parents for thousands of years, then taken away by the Jedi Order at all... Rey is the principal protagonist of the sequel trilogy. For most fans to accept her, she must be someone of significance. 5 minutes ago, Docteur Qui said: The delusion and entitlement is strong with this one. The entire trilogy will have been a waste of time if they go back on a significant theme of TLJ which is that the Force can be wielded by anybody, and that greatness can come from the humblest of places. I guess you haven't watched it a second time though, so I don't blame you for missing that. Delusion? The irony! As a customer, I am not entitled to anything. Just as Disney/Lucasfilm are not entitled to the fans' business. How were "The Force can be wielded by anybody" and "greatness can come from the humblest of places" significant themes of TLJ? 'Failure can be one's greatest teacher' was a significant theme. Again, what irony. 3 minutes ago, Chen G. said: Something along the line of her being born to balance out Kylo. Its somewhere in Snoke's endless monolouging. I think the real culprit here is Return of the Jedi. Empire had this incredible twist, and here come Lucas and Kasdan and recycle it by making Leia Luke's sister, and since than the series is playing that same note over and over again. Appearantly, not one can think of a twist better than someone being or not being someone else's relative. Rey's powers and origin must be explained more completely than 'she is the good to Kylo's bad'. Based on a passage in one of the Aftermath novels, Rey could have come from a Force test-tube... of Palpatine's creation. Demodex 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Palps died 10 years before Rey's birth. Being born in a scientific experiment would make her significant? The protagonist must be someone of significance, yes. Who's to say significance can only come from heritage, not what you do with your gifts or how you add to important era-changing events, though? Who were Samwise Gamgee, Peregrine Took or Hermione Granger before the stories began? I also read someone say Kylo may be the overall protagonist of the trilogy, and Rey his foil. Just something to ponder until IX. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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