Star Wars Disenchantment

[Chen G. 3,944]

And it ignores the possibility (the science surrounding this issue is still a bit hazy) that there may be - on average - inherent temperamental differences between men and women, which will affect their level of representation in various professions, even in a perfectly egalitarian society.

[Demodex 557]

Oh, did poor white men get their feelings hurt?  Boo hoo.  

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

This forum is being usurped by a bunch of self-loathing millennial white guys looking for cool points from the butch feminazi league on Tumblr!

[Demodex 557]

I'm not a millennial. If I was I may actually give a shit about Marvel. 

[SteveMc 2,674]

@Nick Parker, should I post dance tracks here in your absence?  

 

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

Now that I've seen 2001, I actually understand the reference in the Land of Confusion music video.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

6 hours ago, dougie said:

This forum is being usurped by a bunch of self-loathing millennial white guys looking for cool points from the butch feminazi league on Tumblr!

 

No self-respecting millennial white guy bothers with Tumblr now that all the porn is gone.

[Demodex 557]

I didn't know Tumbler had porn until they said they were taking it away. 

[Arpy 4,145]

8 hours ago, Chen G. said:

And it ignores the possibility (the science surrounding this issue is still a bit hazy) that there may be - on average - inherent temperamental differences between men and women, which will affect their level of representation in various professions, even in a perfectly egalitarian society.

Yes, surely an egalitarian society would be content with not having 50/50 representation and gender quotas. It should always remain the choice of the producers and any creative vision behind the film who they choose to represent. 

[A. A. Ron 1,740]

4 hours ago, Demodex said:

I didn't know Tumbler had porn until they said they were taking it away. 

 

It had LOTS.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I thought the Tumbler was that stupid more realistic and relatable Batman car.

[Mattris 416]

  14 hours ago, Mattris said:

How do you know TLJ "is well-liked among the general public"? If it was, why didn't the general public turn out for Solo like the did for Rogue One after the well-like TFA? Could it be that the majority of fans skipped it in protest?

John said:

 

I'll just quote this post of mine here:

  On 11/5/2018 at 3:00 PM, John said:

Why Solo flopped:

 

- A general lack of interest in a spinoff about a character that died in another movie 3 years ago, and is now being portrayed by a different actor.

- Lackluster marketing. I think the trailers did an awful job at promoting this movie. The movie I saw felt wildly different than what the trailers/TV spots were trying to sell.

- Immense summer competition from Deadpool 2 and Infinity War.

- The movie just isn't all that great. Strip away all the references and callbacks and you have a generic heist movie. They should've delayed the film until December to give them time to tweak it until they got it right, instead of plopping a half-baked product in theaters that the average moviegoer has no idea is coming out.

 

TLJ backlash has next to nothing to do with Solo's box office failure.

 

- Incompetence / lack of leadership

- Incompetence / Why would the movie being different than the trailers affect its box office pull?

- "competition" with super-hero movies will prevent people from attending a Star Wars film? Give me a break.

- Incompetence / The "average moviegoer" and Star Wars fans that knew Solo was coming out... and skipped it. And who said it was "a half-baked product"? They made the movie twice!

 

I have a read on the fans that skipped Solo. (I'm one of them.) TLJ and Lucasfilm's backlash to the fan backlash lead to Solo's failure. (Mediocre reviews and poor casting of the titular character didn't help.)

 

Trust me, TLJ was the #1 reason for Solo's epic failure. I can't believe this is still in dispute.

 

  14 hours ago, Mattris said:

In total, TLJ made only 2/3 of TFA... and holds the record for the largest second weekend drop-off. But no one talks about that. 

 

John: Everyone, including top analysts, have consistently said that TFA is an anomaly, one of a kind and that its box office performance can't be compared to others.

 

Me: TLJ still holds the record for the largest second weekend drop-off. That's indicative of a major drop in repeat viewings. I wonder why?

 

On 2/19/2019 at 4:11 AM, Arpy said:

They wanted Luke to become a Super Saiyan and obliterate the First Order in one almighty force blast.

 

Wrong. Fans wanted Luke to act like Luke... not act completely like someone else. Why is shocking that many are shocked and disappointed? 

 

On 2/19/2019 at 6:03 AM, dougie said:

Essentially, Rey is exempt from experiencing the same level of perilous and depressing situations as Anakin or Luke because that would potentially alienate the female audience they're trying to court.

 

Wouldn't Rey be loved and admired more if she experienced the same level of perilous and depressing situations... but got though them, despite the hardships. Or perhaps she fails repeatedly... but continues to fight, regardless.

 

On 2/19/2019 at 6:11 AM, Chen G. said:

Yeah, I supposed it'd be wierd to see Rey - for instance - getting the c*ap smacked out of her, in a way that we would have no trouble with seeing with a male lead; hence why it doesn't actually happen anywhere.

 

So poor ol' Finn has to take all the hits, instead!

 

Why would Rey getting abused be "weird"?

 

On 2/19/2019 at 11:15 AM, Demodex said:

When Episode 9 explains this will you shut up about it?

 

If the explanation of Rey's powers is fulfilling and/or believable, yes.

 

On 2/19/2019 at 4:17 PM, Ghostbusters II said:

Why aren't the Resistance the Republic army? What was the government after the Empire? In Episode VII, they kept saying "The Republic" over and over again as if avoiding saying Coruscant.

 

Lucasfilm would say read the novels and other canon material, specifically Bloodline.

 

 

While I'm at it, here are some edited (expanded!) older posts:

 

Regarding the state of Star Wars, the online 'vibe' is indisputable. People feel that Star Wars is broken and will not be supporting it until they perceive major change. If most of the disenchanted fans are not persuaded back, Episode 9 will be a financial disappointment.

 

The "online harassment" of Lucasfilm employees can be attributed it to a tiny fraction of people... the scum of the Earth who appeared out of the wood-works to jump on the 'Star Wars hate train'. I also said that this situation was blown way out of proportion by the media - so much so that it became the story... when the story should have been that the TLJ cast/crew were insulting fans: accusing them of sexism, racism, misogyny... calling them "assholes" and "manbabies"... drinking out of 'FANBOY TEARS' mugs. John Boyega said to concerned fans, "We don't care." Star Wars novelist Chuck Wendig spewing profanity-laced Tweets and threats, dismissing the fans as "not our customers". Wendig was fired by Marvel... but acted surprised and said that Lucasfilm had "supported" him in his Tweets.

 

No doubt Kathleen Kennedy asked Rian Johnson for 'strong female characters' in TLJ. She thinks they were written "beautifully". I think it's safe to say that most fans have a different opinion. Rose and Holdo were perceived as an annoyance to characters we did care about. Their abrasive presence absolutely affected the film in a negative way.

 

Moving forward, I would have no issue if half of the characters in Star Wars are female... if  they are written well and their inclusion logically makes sense story-wise.

  On 11/4/2018 at 3:29 PM, Chen G. said:

I think its clear from watching The Last Jedi that Rian Johnson got to do what he wanted.

... at the behest of Kathleen Kennedy, who you admitted has...

  On 11/4/2018 at 3:31 PM, Chen G. said:

... a feminist agenda in the management of Lucasfilm, its not unreasonable to fear for that same agenda manifesting itself in the movies they produce.

 

Every new Star Wars movie features strong female protagonists. The characters of Rose and Holdo seemed shoe-horned into TLJ's story, yet they were featured... to the detriment of the film - but not because they were women.

 

Underwhelming, unoriginal, or terrible movies + insults to the fans = avoidance of all products from Lucasfilm. It's hard to believe that they "don't care" to satisfy the majority of fans in order to make the most money. But with Rian Johnson confirming that he's still working on a SW trilogy... and no apologies issued (at the very least, just to clear up any Twitter misunderstandings), it's clear that defiance is the name of their game. With Solo's epic box office failure and Star Wars merchandise now loosing money, it has been proven that the fans can play that game, too.

 

If Disney/Lucasfilm don't change their tune, this will not end well for them. Mark my words.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

Epic failure? Sure, Solo didn't do "great" for a Star Wars film, but it still did good in the box office, and is continuing to make money from home media. Also, I've seen nothing but praise for Alden Ehrenreich's portrayal of Han Solo, even from the people who "boycotted" the film.

 

There's just no way a handful of crybabies had any impact at all on Solo. TLJ was a great film; Lucasfilm has no reason to "change their tune". They're doing a fantastic job and I hope they keep it up. I've been satisfied with all of the new films thus far and couldn't be more excited for IX.

 

If the "majority of fans" hated TLJ, do you really think everyone in this thread would be arguing with you? No, they would be agreeing with you, and I have yet to see anyone do that. You're clearly in the minority.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

1 hour ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

TLJ was a great film;

 

Some schlocky bloated space flick for kids was a "great film"? I mean it was okay, but aren't we blowing it out of proportion?

[Demodex 557]

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

Wrong. Fans wanted Luke to act like Luke... not act completely like someone else. Why is shocking that many are shocked and disappointed? 

 

This is dumb. Luke was one of the best parts of TLJ!  People change over 30 years. How is that shocking?  

 

 

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

f Disney/Lucasfilm don't change their tune, this will not end well for them. Mark my words.

 

😄😄😄 

I wouldn't be too worried if I was Lucasfilm. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

If the explanation of Rey's powers is fulfilling and/or believable, yes.

 

How would you know if you're not going to see it?

[Arpy 4,145]

@Mattris I shit you not, I've seen numerous complaints across the web of Luke's hermit-like character not being a carbon copy of his younger self, wielding his lightsaber. 

 

 

[John 2,032]

Luke was the best thing about TLJ.

[crumbs 14,304]

1 hour ago, Arpy said:

I shit you not, I've seen numerous complaints across the web of Luke's hermit-like character not being a carbon copy of his younger self, wielding his lightsaber. 

 

It's clearly just too difficult a concept for some fans to grasp that people change over the course of three decades, especially after suffering severe trauma.

[Chen G. 3,944]

I think its more the general concept that all the beloved characters from the previous films are frail, sad old people in these.

 

Its not a problem, if the drama of the end of IX earns it.

 

If it doesn't - and I can definitely see it coming short - than why did you make people sit through all of that misery?

 

After all, in strictly narrative terms, the sequel trilogy is just a strap tacked on story, alongside the existing sextet.

[Demodex 557]

Just now, Chen G. said:

I think its more the general concept that all the beloved characters from the previous films are frail, sad old people in these.

 

I did not get this impression at all.

[Chen G. 3,944]

Maybe frail isn't quite the right word, but I think the general idea is on the minds of a lot of the films' detractors, even if they don't admit it.

[Demodex 557]

Well the actors are old so I'm not sure what people expected.  

[Chen G. 3,944]

Maybe a sequel trilogy which happens at a time much longer removed from the existing films, so we didn't have to see how far down are heroes have fallen? Perhaps set it in the same time but have less of the old cast return? There were plenty of work-arounds to this issue.

 

The sad state of the returning cast isn't necessarily a bad thing, though: I think it depends on how impactful the resolution of IX will be. If its good enough that those grievances and deaths feel justified, than fine. If it isn't, than (to my mind) the sequel trilogy would have been better off not being made.

[Fabulin 3,510]

.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

The sequel trilogy is fucking depressing.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,504]

4 hours ago, John said:

Luke was the best thing about TLJ.

Believe you me, Luke was the best thing about TFA.

[Demodex 557]

3 minutes ago, Richard said:

Believe you me, Luke was the best thing about TFA.

 

I agree

 

[Holko 9,499]

17 minutes ago, Fabulin said:

Imagine Han Solo as a Star-Trek style capital ship commander, a smug jesting general going on some adventure and issuing orders while the actor himself is smiling because of the witty lines he has gotten and ordering people around. Imagine Leia as a high government official, using more of Carrie Fisher's natural sass, instead of a grieving, sad person. Finally imagine Luke Skywalker as a wise leader of a new jedi order, which might be very different than the old one and teach different lessons.

 

And have Poe be a young rash "New Han Solo" working with the old one who is nothing to sniff at either like in Men in Black. Have Rey be a cute new jedi prodigy who has problems entering the jedi society and needs to learn everything from the beginning. And Finn might be a wild card at this point. 

 

This was a damn easy thing to do.

Thing is, that's all been done before in the EU. Throwing that royal mess out was a necessary step, picking and choosing to keep the better ones and adapt them into movies would've been weird. If it's all been thrown out only to retrack it all, then why throw it out in the first place? I like that they went somewhere different.

[SteveMc 2,674]

41 minutes ago, Fabulin said:

Imagine Han Solo as a Star-Trek style capital ship commander, a smug jesting general going on some adventure and issuing orders while the actor himself is smiling because of the witty lines he has gotten and ordering people around. Imagine Leia as a high government official, using more of Carrie Fisher's natural sass, instead of a grieving, sad person. Finally imagine Luke Skywalker as a wise leader of a new jedi order, which might be very different than the old one and teach different lessons.

 

And have Poe be a young rash "New Han Solo" working with the old one who is nothing to sniff at either like in Men in Black. Have Rey be a cute new jedi prodigy who has problems entering the jedi society and needs to learn everything from the beginning. And Finn might be a wild card at this point. 

 

This was a damn easy thing to do.

There is little dramatic potential, or potential for originality in this setup.  Unless you want Star Wars to be a kind of MCU.

[Fabulin 3,510]

.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

I _will_ say that even with The Last Jedi, and its deeper spiritual underpinnings and thematic richness, these new Star Wars movies, there's something...ephemeral about it, just this "eh, whatever" feeling to them. I haven't watched any of the older films since 2012, so I don't know how I would feel about those now. Does anyone feel this way towards the Original Trilogy, etc.?

[SteveMc 2,674]

13 minutes ago, Fabulin said:

I never told you where Han Solo's cruiser disappears and how does his loving wife reacts to this.

Cliched.

 

1 minute ago, Nick Parker said:

I _will_ say that even with The Last Jedi, and its deeper spiritual underpinnings and thematic richness, these new Star Wars movies, there's something...ephemeral about it, just this "eh, whatever" feeling to them. I haven't watched any of the older films since 2012, so I don't know how I would feel about those now. Does anyone feel this way towards the Original Trilogy, etc.?

I agree with you completely  The two new films have their strengths, but timelessness is not one of them.

From my perspective the OT, with the possible exception of Jedi, does not have this problem, perhaps because crafting stories based on established principles and strong structure was just as much in mind as the cutting edge effects and crafty direction.

 

As for the prequels, well, they are bad, but, like many bad things, don't really have an expiration date.  

[Nick Parker 3,040]

1 minute ago, SteveMc said:

perhaps because crafting stories based on established principles and strong structure was just as much in mind as the cutting edge effects and crafty direction.

 

Couldn't you say there are many films with this that haven't survived the passage of time? While The Force Awakens' structure was partially borrowed, I'd still call it solid. Plot-wise, The Last Jedi is shakier, but thematically, it's mostly very well put-together and cohesive. So what makes them different?

[SteveMc 2,674]

I feel the OT was more mythological.  You have this curious paradox of the movies appearing to exist apart from the viewer, yet the viewer able to have a close connection to it.

The new movies feel, as I think Chen has pointed out, directed.  They play out to and for the audience, and seem self-consciously movies rather than a view into a galaxy far far away, long ago etc...

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

It's a shame that Katie Lucas never got the chance to inherit the franchise and make it her own.

[Fabulin 3,510]

.

[SteveMc 2,674]

Of course, there is nothing necessarily wrong with "directed" movies.  These can be and are often timeless, too.  It is very difficult, however, to direct something in order to emulate something that was originally quite spontaneous.  

Still, we shouldn't disparage someone for trying, even if the results are arguably less than stellar.     

[Chen G. 3,944]

38 minutes ago, Nick Parker said:

I _will_ say that even with The Last Jedi, and its deeper spiritual underpinnings and thematic richness, these new Star Wars movies, there's something...ephemeral about it, just this "eh, whatever" feeling to them. I haven't watched any of the older films since 2012, so I don't know how I would feel about those now. Does anyone feel this way towards the Original Trilogy, etc.?

 

Interesting notion.

 

I suppose I feel that way about the work as a whole. It probably has to do with the fact that I didn't see any one of these films before 2015. Watching them through adult eyes, there are few moments of weighty drama in Empire Strikes Back, Return of the Jedi and Revenge of the Sith, but on the whole its not a terribly substantive body of work: just fun action-adventure flicks, for the most part, with occasional attempts at pathos. My interest in the series is more of an intellectual one, that being their function as a "cycle" of works.

 

To single out specific portions of the cycle, I should first preface that I never found the terminology (and implicit distinction) of "original Trilogy", versus "prequel trilogy" to be conducive. The fact of the matter is that no one of the two trilogies is so internally cohesive that it can be distinguished from the other. For instance, Return of the Jedi is probably closer in the filmmaking sensibilities to The Phantom Menace than to The Empire Strikes Back.

 

That last point is a significant one - I think - in explaining why the sequel trilogy may feel more ephemeral than some previous entries. The issue isn't that Geroge Lucas isn't involved, its that, haphazard though it may be, Lucas has presented us with a cycle that tells a story with a beginning, a sort-of middle, and an end. An entire trilogy set after that end is just...redundant.

 

To talk specifically about The Last Jedi, I personally don't see its "deeper spiritual underpinnings and thematic richness". Its attempts at infusing the series with timely societal themes and moral ambiguity are completely incongorous with the central conflict. It also accentuates the same kind of lack of internal cohesion within its own trilogy, mostly because of how different Rian Johnson's style is to Abrams'.

[Fabulin 3,510]

.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

46 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

To talk specifically about The Last Jedi, I personally don't see its "deeper spiritual underpinnings and thematic richness". Its attempts at infusing the series with timely societal themes and moral ambiguity are completely incongorous with the central conflict.

 

Not what I'm referring to; I know a lot of people find much to debate with those, but I'm not interested in discussing those. While (royal) you might find it a point of criticism, The Last Jedi is very much a standalone movie with its own themes, its own things to say as a film,  the same way you can take apart A Streetcar Named Desire, Minority Report, Alien, Spider-Man 2, It Follows, on and on and on and on. 

1 hour ago, SteveMc said:

They play out to and for the audience, and seem self-consciously movies rather than a view into a galaxy far far away, long ago etc...

 

That's a very good point, Steve, and that's a major pet peeve of mine in a lot of modern media (films, video games, etc.) When you say it like that, I guess The Last Jedi, deeply as I respect and enjoy it, doesn't escape that feeling for me. Strangely enough, Solo was the one of these new Star Wars movies that didn't feel this way to me, and is actually my overall favorite of them, unpopular as it is to say, its earnestness being one of them.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

5 hours ago, dougie said:

The sequel trilogy is fucking depressing.

 

Dark and disturbing?

[Nick Parker 3,040]

7 minutes ago, Ghostbusters II said:

 

Dark and disturbing?

 

Were they only so!

[Mattris 416]

On 06/02/2019 at 10:22 PM, Docteur Qui said:

Ren deliberately uses Rey's identity issues to manipulate her into joining him as galaxy ruler. She is rocked to her core when she realises the truth - that she really is a nobody from nowhere - especially after spending a good portion of the film trying to understand her power and where it comes from. But then it becomes clear that she will nevertheless continue the legacy of the Jedi in Luke/Kylo's exchange ("I will not be the last Jedi"). Pretty clear cut example of "greatness from humble place", right there in Rey's arc.

 

Really confused by this, you're now implying that the broom boy needs a backstory as well because he was shown using the Force? Why? It's obvious that the scene was placed there to reinforce that Force users can come from anywhere. This kid may grow up to be a hero, but for now he's an orphaned slave, just like Rey was.

 

IX has no need to clarify Rey's origin. It was explicitly stated in TLJ. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not there. It wasn't even an implication, it's right there in the dialogue (emphasis mine of course):

 

KYLO REN: No, no. You're still holding on! Let go! Do you wanna know the truth about your parents? Or have you always known? And you've just hidden it away. You know the truth. Say it. Say it.

REY: They were nobody.

KYLO REN: They were filthy junk traders who sold you off for drinking money. They're dead in a paupers' grave in the Jakku desert. You have no place in this story. You come from nothing. You're nothing. But not to me. Join me. Please.

 

It's no more ambiguous than Vader telling Luke that he's his father at the end of ESB. Luke accepts it and we, the audience accept it. Why? "Search your feelings, you know it to be true". The choice of language here is no coincidence.

 

Ren attempted to use "Rey's identity issues to manipulate her into joining him as galaxy ruler", but she was never going to join him. The "truth" she realizes may be a false one, as Kylo was only reading her mind... and she knows nothing. I - and many other fans - will be utterly shocked and disappointed if Rey turns out to be a "nobody from nowhere". Even "after spending a good portion of the film trying to understand her power and where it comes from", she ended TLJ having learned next to nothing since the end of TFA, but she was still a step ahead of Kylo. I think you are incorrect to conclude that Rey 'comes from the humblest of places'. In fact, I think the exact opposite will end up being the truth. Her arc has ways to go yet.

 

On 07/02/2019 at 4:38 AM, Chen G. said:

I just never saw the point of it. It may serve the mechanical purpose of explaining her powers, but it won't change her character. If anything, it'll rob her of her rags-to-riches traejectory. Besides, it feels like playing the same note of Empire Strikes Back for the umpteen time. Surely, people involved with Star Wars can come up with a twist other than some being related to someone else? It was already super cheap when they did it with Luke and Leia.

 

Its not that he was involved in the creative decisions, but I know that he read the screenplay, so he would have known what was in store from way back.

 

Do you really see Abrams weaving flashbacks throughout Episode IX? He's got at least five character stories to bring towards a conclusion, a trilogy to wrap up, and backlot of six other films to at least nod to.  Do you think he'll have the time and energy to work in flashbacks? What do you think this is, a Tarantino flick?

 

Even if he was so inclined, there's little room for flashbacks in Star Wars. The original sextet has exactly zero flashbacks, and even the sequel trilogy has a grand total of two. And third entries typically have the fewest flashbacks (e.g. The Lord of the Rings) anyway.

 

Really, you'd be okay with removing The Force? The very thing that makes Star Wars Star Wars?!

 

To the disenchanted/confused fans, Rey's rags-to-riches story is non-existent. The Force just awakened in her. But why was the Force in her in the first place?

 

I would rather Episode IX explain the conclusion to this story without flashbacks.

 

And on second thought, removing the Force from the Star Wars galaxy would be a grave mistake. May the Force be with them!

 

On 19/02/2019 at 11:29 AM, Chen G. said:

I should very much like to hear @Mattris try and explain how he things that sort of thing can be managed.

 

Its not that I don't see it happening - its that I don't even think its possible.

 

I have a theory that makes sense of everything with the films, as well as the reality we live in. I will reveal it at the top of page 90, along with my guess for the title of Episode IX.

 

On 19/02/2019 at 11:36 AM, Chen G. said:

Lets put judgement and humour aside for a moment.

 

Even as someone who can empathize with some of @Mattris' points, I just want to hear how he thinks JJ Abrams - who's only just now finished principal photography on a film that's out this December - could recontextualize multiple elements of two previous films, while also telling its own story, work around the death of a major cast member, incorporate new characters into the narrative, provide a satisfying conclusion to all three films, and explain their significance to the cycle as a whole.

 

Let's assume (for the sake of argument) that there is an actual need for IX to recontextualize stuff - how on earth can it be made possible?! Lets hear it!

 

I now believe that JJ Abrams' primary story remained in TLJ: Kylo betrays Snoke but passes on the opportunity to kill his mother, Luke Skywalker sacrifices himself to save the Resistance and Leia, Rey (once again) refuses to join Kylo, who assumes control of the First Order. The rest can be attributed to Rian Johnson.

 

On 26/02/2019 at 3:47 AM, Manakin Skywalker said:

Epic failure? Sure, Solo didn't do "great" for a Star Wars film, but it still did good in the box office, and is continuing to make money from home media. Also, I've seen nothing but praise for Alden Ehrenreich's portrayal of Han Solo, even from the people who "boycotted" the film.

 

There's just no way a handful of crybabies had any impact at all on Solo. TLJ was a great film; Lucasfilm has no reason to "change their tune". They're doing a fantastic job and I hope they keep it up. I've been satisfied with all of the new films thus far and couldn't be more excited for IX.

 

If the "majority of fans" hated TLJ, do you really think everyone in this thread would be arguing with you? No, they would be agreeing with you, and I have yet to see anyone do that. You're clearly in the minority.

 

Don't kid yourself, SOLO did not do "good in the box office". It will take decades for the film to earn money from its merchandise sales alone. Alden Ehrenreich's portrayal of Han Solo was not unanimously praised. Common issues I've encountered: Han seemed somewhat boyish and submissive.

 

How do you know the disenchanted fans are "a handful of crybabies"? Why did Rogue One make over $600M more than SOLO? Are you going to attribute that to its inclusion of Darth Vader.. or blame its sub-standard marketing campaign? The truth is, it was just a film that few wanted... on the heals of the tremendously divisive TLJ, which has numerous objective flaws and fails to expand on many of the events/characters of TFA - hardly "a great film. Lucasfilm had better "change their tune" or they risk destroying their legacy - at least on a personal level.

 

I'm glad you're excited for IX, but I'd like to hear how you think "they're doing a fantastic job". Do you have any theories for IX?

 

While I'm the minority in this thread, I'm certain this is not representative of the fandom at large. Having said that, I think you'll be intrigued with what I have to say next.

 

On 26/02/2019 at 5:20 AM, Arpy said:

@Mattris I shit you not, I've seen numerous complaints across the web of Luke's hermit-like character not being a carbon copy of his younger self, wielding his lightsaber.

 

That's not what I expected. As I said before, a disenchanted Luke Skywalker could have been quite interesting... but unless we are told otherwise, what happened was sad: Luke just ended up killing himself by using the Force too hard... after abandoning his friends and family by secluding himself on an remote planet.

 

On 26/02/2019 at 6:41 AM, crumbs said:

It's clearly just too difficult a concept for some fans to grasp that people change over the course of three decades, especially after suffering severe trauma.

 

This is not complicated. Luke was shown to have had the "pure instinct" to kill a Jedi student in their sleep... his own nephew, no less! For anyone that understands his character, this event simply cannot be dismissed as "change over the course of three decades" off-screen. I hope JJ has a better explanation for why Luke drew his lightsaber on Ben.

 

On 26/02/2019 at 7:52 AM, Chen G. said:

I think its more the general concept that all the beloved characters from the previous films are frail, sad old people in these.

 

Its not a problem, if the drama of the end of IX earns it.

 

If it doesn't - and I can definitely see it coming short - than why did you make people sit through all of that misery?

 

After all, in strictly narrative terms, the sequel trilogy is just a strap tacked on story, alongside the existing sextet.

 

IX can earn it. Again, I have a theory. Clue: Who is the one character that exists in Episodes I though VI in some way? This character is the "key to all this"... and will return.

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