Star Wars Disenchantment

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Star Wars. If it is here, it is something filmmakers were not meant to disturb. Butthurt and intolerable behavior has always surrounded it.

[mstrox 6,650]

34 minutes ago, Arpy said:

I don't think @Mattris does share the goals of some of the most virulent out there, but his tone does smack of someone who has felt dejected by what he perceives to be a mishandling of his fandom.

 

I have no doubt that Mattris isn’t as bad as those Bring Back Legends turds or the worst of the social media harassers.  But he does tend to leave out context (PAST AND PRESENT LUCASFILM EMPLOYEES YELLING AT PEOPLE ON SOCIAL MEDIA without adding “from their personal non-Lucasfilm-authorized accounts, and only in response specifically to the same kind of garbage that is making these young stars abandon the public eye.”) and mold facts around his “arguments” instead of vice versa.  And earnestly uses the term “SJW,” which is a pretty nebulous term and generally a red flag in any conversation. 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

LFL should make a new SW film that's like the 2016 Ghostbusters. Hire Paul Feig and see what reaction that gets.

[Mattris 416]

That's the worst idea I've heard in a while.

 

3 hours ago, John said:

 

Judging by your posts over the past few weeks, yes. 

 

That's a bold accusation, John. Please post quotes that insinuate those peoples' goals align with mine.

 

3 hours ago, Arpy said:

No, the division does not fall on the shoulders of Kathleen Kennedy, nor is Johnson's behavior pathetic.

 

As the president of Lucasfilm, the buck stops with Kathleen Kennedy, who is responsible for approving the stories that get made into films, as well as the hiring/firing of directors. Her selfishness and ignorance has caused Star Wars films to be made that are underwhelming, unworthy, or just plain suck. The Last Jedi is black mark on the franchise and has divided the fan-base between those who want to like it and those who realize it's terrible.

 

You're right. Rian Johnson's behavior, in general, is disrespectful, and he is delusional.

[Chen G. 3,948]

2 hours ago, mstrox said:

Say what you will about the prequels, but Lucas never kowtowed to fan demands and frustrated the living hell out of them with the prequels.  Then when Disney and Kennedy came along (and by came along, I mean “paid literally billions of dollars to actually own it and not just claim personal ownership because they spent a bunch of money on books and comics and video games and LEGO and owned little plastic Droopy McCool in the eighties”), all of a sudden Lucas and the prequels were sancrosanct, God’s perfect fandom angel, hallowed be thy name.

 

Added to that, as well, is the notion that Disney's Star Wars suffers from not having Lucas to help shape the overarching story, which again is nonesense, as no such plan was ever laid before any of the previous trilogies.

 

So how are these movies different to Empire Strikes Back which Lucas didn't write nor direct?

[Score 770]

4 hours ago, TGP said:

Seems like the easy explanation but not the right one.  I blame the internet exploited as a soapbox and as a part of a larger cultural decay that seems increasingly fated to yield lots of unstable minds.  Now add the astronomically high level of tribal political thinking to be found everywhere in 2018 and a significant franchise being helmed by a force like Disney.  What a world, eh?

 

Since unstable minds are now able to voice their instability and have it amplified by the internet, other unstable minds look at that and come to the conclusion that their own instability is normal, and they also start to flood the internet with their own nonsense. It looks like a self-sustaining mechanism. I also believe that the substitution of real human relationships with virtual ones (many "friendship" relations nowadays amount to placing a like on a facebook post) has led some people to being unable to distinguish reality from fantasy. Otherwise, one cannot explain why so many haters care that much about the fate of fictional characters in a movie franchise, to the point of insulting in the worst possible ways the real people behind the movies (actors, producers, directors). They just don't make a distinction between the two levels. When I was younger, not even children would care that much about fictional characters. 

 

 

 

[Arpy 4,145]

@Mattris 

[Guest]

56 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Her selfishness and ignorance has caused Star Wars films to be made that are underwhelming, unworthy, or just plain suck. The Last Jedi is black mark on the franchise and has divided the fan-base between those who want to like it and those who realize it's terrible.

You forgot about those who actually genuinely love the film. Or did you conveniently want to forget them?

[Mattris 416]

My apologies. I didn't mean to forget the people who like (or even love) The Last Jedi, but I do feel sorry for them. I say with confidence that most Star Wars fans were underwhelmed, disappointed in, or even hated the movie.

 

Arpy, please explain why you think that "every word of what" I "just said is wrong", specially regarding Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Mattris said:

My apologies. I didn't mean to forget the people who like (or even love) The Last Jedi, but I do feel sorry for them. I say with confidence that most Star Wars fans were underwhelmed, disappointed in, or even hated the movie.

 

Arpy, please explain why you think that "every word of what" I "just said is wrong", specially regarding Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson.

You feel sorry for us for liking a movie that you don't like? Now you're just sounding like a complete ignorant asshole.

 

Anyone who says any variation of "if you don't believe what I believe then you're wrong" completely loses all credibility as far as I'm concerned.

[Mattris 416]

32 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

You feel sorry for us for liking a movie that you don't like? Now you're just sounding like a complete ignorant asshole.

 

Sorry for sounding like an asshole, but I wouldn't be the first one to come across that way in this forum. (Not that it makes it right.)

 

32 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

Anyone who says any variation of "if you don't believe what I believe then you're wrong" completely loses all credibility as far as I'm concerned.

 

Thankfully, I still have some credibility left, because I don't believe that. I accept that people have different tastes and preferences.

 

On a more positive note...

 

To anyone who "likes" The Last Jedi, could you please explain why?  I'm genuinely curious.

[Arpy 4,145]

Let's start with that those of us who did like the film were because we genuinely enjoyed the film, exploring the characters that were introduced in the last film and the half a dozen before. That the film had great production value, cinematography, music and some great character moments from the screenplay to Johnson's vision.

 

And no, I don't think anyone can safely say that more people than not were disappointed or hated The Last Jedi, but it is safe to say that the people who vehemently hated it are a vocal majority.

 

 

[Holko 9,516]

The visuals are pleasing, the score is great. I think the writing is quite tight, at this point there's not much you could snip without seriously harming what Rian tried to say with the film. The characters have clear goals and arcs, I like where he's taken them - yes, even Luke, I think he's wonderful. The first watch was a bit bumpy, not knowing where it all was going, and it seemed a bit long (here we have a climax but I still remember Crait from the trailers/so Canto Bight was pointless?), so I wasn't sure how much I liked it, but on the second watch (this is the first movie I saw two times at the cinema) somehow they all evened out into a coherent whole and I enjoyed it much more.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I'm not really a Friends fan but I wondered if you guys would check out my latest composition in the spirit of Steve Reich's early tape pieces, which I call "How You Doin."  This seems like a good place for it.  Please enjoy.

 

http://picosong.com/wcEhT/

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

To anyone who "likes" The Last Jedi, could you please explain why?  I'm genuinely curious.

 

I like the bit where everything goes "KA-BOOM" and people are like "agghhh" and when that ship goes slice through that other ship and when the music does that cool bit on the red salt planet.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

What does that have to do with my new piece. 

[Chen G. 3,948]

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

To anyone who "likes" The Last Jedi, could you please explain why?  I'm genuinely curious.

 

I like the film, but not all that much, though: I've watched it three times (I always watch a film twice to really form an opinion on it) but I've had no desire to revisit it since. Whether that says something to the quality of the film itself or the fact that I'm getting fed up with new Star Wars films in general, I don't know.

 

Externally, its a competent movie: for the most part, it was well-acted, well-photographed, had good effects, etcetra. I particularly like a lot of the transitions. Its a usual Johnson device: Finn asks where is Rey, cut to...Rey. And again from Kylo's smashed helmet to Rey telling Luke that "there's no light left in Kylo Ren." After Rey pleads her case to Luke, we cut to Leia, implying that she sensed it all, etc...

 

I don't get what's there to be surprised about regarding Luke's story. It was easy to guess, based on The Force Awakens alone, that he would be shown as disillusioned with the Jedi and would be initially unwilling to train Rey, only to through her rediscover his vitality. What I did appreciate was how things turned out between him and young Ben Solo - perhaps the boldest move in this film. I also love the moment between Luke and Leia. Its wonderfully touching, complete with their theme and everything.

 

There is of course plently I didn't like - none of it has anything to do with SJWs or what they did with the world of Star Wars, but has everything to do with storytelling: some bad comedy, some rough edges (production-wise), a total failure of a subplot in Finn and Rose's story, and two climaxes that can't help but feel like too much for one film. I do think that people who defend this film against the likes of you have left this film's shortcomings (of which there are many) by the wayside, much as you left its positive aspects to the side.

[mstrox 6,650]

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

 

To anyone who "likes" The Last Jedi, could you please explain why?  I'm genuinely curious.

 

Ah, here it is!  The moment I’ve been training for my whole life!

 

The Last Jedi is good as hell!

[Nick1Ø66 4,710]

13 minutes ago, mstrox said:

The Last Jedi is good as hell!

 

Literally!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

The S From Hell...

 

 

[Demodex 557]

 

😄😄😄  (start at 1:30)

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

9 hours ago, Mattris said:

To anyone who "likes" The Last Jedi, could you please explain why?  I'm genuinely curious.

 

Where to begin? I like how it’s shot for starters. It’s visually the most striking film in the franchise since the original. The use of colour and texture is fascinating and is used to great effect. 

 

The meta commentary about moving forward from the past and forging one’s own path was a genuine breath of fresh air, particularly after the soft reboot of TFA. This theme intersects with almost every aspect of the film, and is crucial to its success in my eyes. Using Yoda to explicitly reinforce this theme was a great use of the character.

 

Adam Driver’s performance as Kylo Ren (and the writing of the character) is easily the best part of the film. Both the actor and script elevated a vaguely interesting character into one of the most compelling villains since Walter White. 

 

Carrie Fisher clearly had a blast making this film. The image of her, frozen in space, while Leia’s Theme churns along in the background is a tableau that - regardless of if you loved or hated the film - will not be forgotten any time soon.

 

The film pays intense respect to Lucas’ original vision, in particular the influence of samurai films. The Rashomon-style device used to frame the story of Luke’s betrayal was nicely done, and creates an appropriate level of tension and drama. The fight scene between the armoured guards and Rey/Ren is a high point.

 

Rey is the glue that holds it all together. She’s impossible not to root for, her energy and optimism infectious. The revelation that she’s a nobody was delivered perfectly - it’s absolutely devastating for her to hear, and Kylo using it to attempt to manipulate her twists the knife even further. 

 

I’m going to leave it here for now, not because that’s all I have to say, but because it’s an absurd state of affairs when someone unironicaly asks why you enjoy a critically acclaimed film. I’d tell you to read a review some time but I suspect you think that film critics are all Disney shills or something.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

23 minutes ago, Docteur Qui said:

 

Where to begin? I like how it’s shot for starters. It’s visually the most striking film in the franchise since the original. The use of colour and texture is fascinating and is used to great effect. 

 

The meta commentary about moving forward from the past and forging one’s own path was a genuine breath of fresh air, particularly after the soft reboot of TFA. This theme intersects with almost every aspect of the film, and is crucial to its success in my eyes. Using Yoda to explicitly reinforce this theme was a great use of the character.

 

Adam Driver’s performance as Kylo Ren (and the writing of the character) is easily the best part of the film. Both the actor and script elevated a vaguely interesting character into one of the most compelling villains since Walter White. 

 

Carrie Fisher clearly had a blast making this film. The image of her, frozen in space, while Leia’s Theme churns along in the background is a tableaux that - regardless of if you loved or hated the film - will not be forgotten any time soon.

 

The film pays intense respect to Lucas’ original vision, in particular the influence of samurai films. The Rashomon-style device used to frame the story of Luke’s betrayal was nicely done, and creates an appropriate level of tension and drama. The fight scene between the armoured guards and Rey/Ren is a high point.

 

Rey is the glue that holds it all together. She’s impossible not to root for, her energy and optimism infectious. The revelation that she’s a nobody was delivered perfectly - it’s absolutely devastating for her to hear, and Kylo using it to attempt to manipulate her twists the knife even further. 

 

I’m going to leave it here for now, not because that’s all I have to say, but because it’s an absurd state of affairs when someone asks unironically why you enjoy a critically acclaimed film. I’d tell you read a review some time but I suspect you think that film critics are all Disney shills or something.

 

Thank you! Thank you!

[Nick Parker 3,040]

4 hours ago, TGP said:

I'm not really a Friends fan but I wondered if you guys would check out my latest composition in the spirit of Steve Reich's early tape pieces, which I call "How You Doin."  This seems like a good place for it.  Please enjoy.

 

http://picosong.com/wcEhT/

 

A piece centered around the deconstruction of a simple phrase, both highlighting the arbitrary nature of verbal communication, and the breakdown of social interaction. Very relevant to the discussion of modern Star Wars: the first motif of "Ho-How you doin'" could be taken as a representation of a person's simple declaration of their opinion of The Last Jedi, ie "I liked it" or "I didn't like it". As the motif repeats, the words begin to lose its semantic meaning, becoming a strange drone, much like the repetitive back and forth surrounding this film and other recent Star Wars films. Then, the motif twists, signifying the change of discourse about Star Wars, the same basic message twisted into different facets and ideas. This altered communication repeats again and again and again, suggesting the standstill of Star Wars conversation.

 

Then, at the end, a single "How you doin'?" The message is unobfuscated, but its meaning is now ambiguous. Whose voice brings about this sudden solidarity? 

 

A most astute musical commentary on our world today, thank you for sharing, @TGP.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

3 hours ago, Demodex said:

 

😄😄😄  (start at 1:30)

Stephen Colbert is my favourite show host right now.

[Holko 9,516]

With his Tolkien fanboyness, he used to be the only one I kind of followed for a while until he devolved into the same anti-Trump hysteria everyone's doing.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

Yeah. I remember when Erdogan arrested some Turkish fellow for comparing Erdogan to Gollum or something and Stephen Colbert just slammed Erdogan using his awesome fandomness.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Turks? Urgh!

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

A most unsavoury folk!

[SteveMc 2,674]

1 hour ago, Docteur Qui said:

The image of her, frozen in space, while Leia’s Theme churns along in the background is a tableaux that - regardless of if you loved or hated the film - will not be forgotten any time soon.

That whole sequence rubs me the wrong way.   

No doubt it is a strikingly well shot film, if perhaps a tad too slick.  The first movies of the OT were well shot, but had that revolutionary realistic grittiness that separates them from most sci- fi before and since.

[John 2,032]

It's an awkwardly executed scene, sure, but I fail to see how it's any more ludicrous than, say, Luke falling thousands of stories and miraculously surviving in Empire, or Kylo Ren getting shot by Chewie's bowcaster in Awakens and not getting blown back forty feet.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I wouldn't have taken any notice of the space Leia scene if the internet didn't blow up about it.

 

I wonder how much better I'd enjoy movies if I wasn't on the internet?

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

3 minutes ago, Margo Channing said:

I wouldn't have taken any notice of the space Leia scene if the internet didn't blow up about it.

 

I wonder how much better I'd enjoy movies if I wasn't on the internet?

Yeah. I remember being like "Okay I can accept this way for Leia to die" , but then they trick me and pull her back in the story. I felt a little estranged considering now Leia's part of the story can no longer be continued, and they had an opportunity to dismiss her in a way I could accept.

[Taikomochi 1,136]

I can admit the space Leia sequence is absurd, but, knowing Carrie Fisher's fate, there was something very powerful to me seeing her "come back to life" in such a badass way, almost like the film was undoing the tragic end that Carrie met.  I know it was filmed without her death in mind, of course, but I think the scene has a resonance it wouldn't have otherwise had because of it.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,512]

 

6 minutes ago, Margo Channing said:

I wonder how much better I'd enjoy movies if I wasn't on the internet?

 

You'd probably see a lot more of them.

[Holko 9,516]

25 minutes ago, The Illustrious Jerry said:

they had an opportunity to dismiss her in a way I could accept.

 

You would accept killing her off in an explosion she could do nothing about after five lines in the movie and never meeting her brother again?

[Demodex 557]

1 hour ago, Docteur Qui said:

 

Where to begin? I like how it’s shot for starters. It’s visually the most striking film in the franchise since the original. The use of colour and texture is fascinating and is used to great effect. 

 

The meta commentary about moving forward from the past and forging one’s own path was a genuine breath of fresh air, particularly after the soft reboot of TFA. This theme intersects with almost every aspect of the film, and is crucial to its success in my eyes. Using Yoda to explicitly reinforce this theme was a great use of the character.

 

Adam Driver’s performance as Kylo Ren (and the writing of the character) is easily the best part of the film. Both the actor and script elevated a vaguely interesting character into one of the most compelling villains since Walter White. 

 

Carrie Fisher clearly had a blast making this film. The image of her, frozen in space, while Leia’s Theme churns along in the background is a tableaux that - regardless of if you loved or hated the film - will not be forgotten any time soon.

 

The film pays intense respect to Lucas’ original vision, in particular the influence of samurai films. The Rashomon-style device used to frame the story of Luke’s betrayal was nicely done, and creates an appropriate level of tension and drama. The fight scene between the armoured guards and Rey/Ren is a high point.

 

Rey is the glue that holds it all together. She’s impossible not to root for, her energy and optimism infectious. The revelation that she’s a nobody was delivered perfectly - it’s absolutely devastating for her to hear, and Kylo using it to attempt to manipulate her twists the knife even further. 

 

I’m going to leave it here for now, not because that’s all I have to say, but because it’s an absurd state of affairs when someone asks unironically why you enjoy a critically acclaimed film. I’d tell you read a review some time but I suspect you think that film critics are all Disney shills or something.

 

Yes. All of this. Yes. 

[Taikomochi 1,136]

Don’t you fools know?  There are literally no members at JWFan who like TLJ!  It’s all Disney shills infiltrating our ranks!! Disney cares that much that they’ve infiltrated even the smallest corners of the web to astroturf their fake Star Wars opinions!

[Nick Parker 3,040]

13 minutes ago, Taikomochi said:

Don’t you fools know?  There are literally no members at JWFan who like TLJ!  It’s all Disney shills infiltrating our ranks!! Disney cares that much that they’ve infiltrated even the smallest corners of the web to astroturf their fake Star Wars opinions!

 

Crap, you got us! I never thought someone here would confront us directly!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

The jig is up!

[Taikomochi 1,136]

I move for the mods to ban all posters who speak positively of TLJ as they are clearly paid shills.  It's time to purge JWFan!

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

11 hours ago, Mattris said:

That's the worst idea I've heard in a while.

That's a bold accusation, John. Please post quotes that insinuate those peoples' goals align with mine.

As the president of Lucasfilm, the buck stops with Kathleen Kennedy, who is responsible for approving the stories that get made into films, as well as the hiring/firing of directors. Her selfishness and ignorance has caused Star Wars films to be made that are underwhelming, unworthy, or just plain suck. The Last Jedi is black mark on the franchise and has divided the fan-base between those who want to like it and those who realize it's terrible.

You're right. Rian Johnson's behavior, in general, is disrespectful, and he is delusional.

And to this I say...

[Nick Parker 3,040]

9 minutes ago, The Illustrious Jerry said:

It's JW Fan, so if we're going to purge, we might as well have some music going.

 

 

Cue:

 

 

Screw that mushy feminine crap, let's get some Straight White Male murderin' music!

 

 

Death to Disney, Lucasfilm, and all who support them!

[Nick1Ø66 4,710]

Every time I log on, I see there's a new post in this thread, and my heart sinks a little. The world seems like a darker place, as if all hope had been sucked out of it and no one would ever feel happiness again.

[Chen G. 3,948]

4 hours ago, Docteur Qui said:

Where to begin? I like how it’s shot for starters. It’s visually the most striking film in the franchise since the original. The use of colour and texture is fascinating and is used to great effect. 

 

Empire Strikes Back sends its regards. The original is actually very plain in terms of cinematography: high-key lighting, not very "pushed" on close-ups, not an awful lot of camera movement, etc...

[John 2,032]

Agreed. Empire maintains a nice balance between being both visually striking and natural looking at the same time.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

1 minute ago, Nick1066 said:

Every time I log on, I see there's a new post in this thread, and my heart sinks a little. The world seems like a darker place, as if all hope had been sucked out of it and no one would ever feel happiness again.

 

Don't you see,this a JWFan mosh pit! Lose yourself in the sweaty whirlpool of anarchy and political debates surrounding family entertainment!

[Chen G. 3,948]

5 minutes ago, John said:

Agreed. Empire maintains a nice balance between being both visually striking and natural looking at the same time.

 

Watching it recently I was struck with how dynamic the lighting choices were. Just like Johnson did away with wipes for more clever transitions, so too did Kirshner have the snow storm white-out the screen as a form of transition between Han rescuing Luke to the search efforts.

 

Large parts of the fight between Vader and Luke is in silhouette, with all manner of atmospherics such as the fog and ambient blue light in the background.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

4 hours ago, Nick Parker said:

 

A piece centered around the deconstruction of a simple phrase, both highlighting the arbitrary nature of verbal communication, and the breakdown of social interaction. Very relevant to the discussion of modern Star Wars: the first motif of "Ho-How you doin'" could be taken as a representation of a person's simple declaration of their opinion of The Last Jedi, ie "I liked it" or "I didn't like it". As the motif repeats, the words begin to lose its semantic meaning, becoming a strange drone, much like the repetitive back and forth surrounding this film and other recent Star Wars films. Then, the motif twists, signifying the change of discourse about Star Wars, the same basic message twisted into different facets and ideas. This altered communication repeats again and again and again, suggesting the standstill of Star Wars conversation.

 

Then, at the end, a single "How you doin'?" The message is unobfuscated, but its meaning is now ambiguous. Whose voice brings about this sudden solidarity? 

 

A most astute musical commentary on our world today, thank you for sharing, @TGP.

 

thx any1 else listen