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Star Wars Disenchantment


John

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I've said it many times, but filmmaking is one the least consistent professions out there: one day you churn out a masterwork, the other day - a mediocre film.

 

Its just too complex and interdisciplinary an artform for one to be genuinely on-top of it throughout.

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9 minutes ago, Mattris said:

What I should have said is that the directors, producers, and writers are being paid extremely well to do their jobs. The fans, who pay to see their films, should hold their films to a high standard - and not be concerned with their anxiety issues.

 

Just automate filmmaking then. Everything else is going that way.

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The over-arching problem at Lucasfilm is much more serious than "the production woes surrounding the spin-off films". Whether you want to admit it or not, The Last Jedi was a major misstep for Lucasfilm. And what followed was just as bad: employees communicating with fans in grossly unprofessional ways, painting concerned/complaining Star Wars fans as stupid, racist, sexist, manbabies. Don't think this - and their aggressive agenda-driven approach to story-telling - goes unnoticed. Fans are being driven away in droves. This is no way for a brand or company to expand and succeed moving forward.

 

Let me be clear. The fans are not upset because of sexism or because "things didn't turn out like they wanted it to". The fans are upset because, in general, the stories and characters are written poorly. People that don't notice the story-telling issues... or won't admit that they exist, is not the fans' fault for being discerning viewers. It's within the fans' rights to voice their concerns and/or stop going to these movies.

 

I just realized that in 22 pages, we haven't mentioned General Hux, Captain Phasma, BB-8, or the porgs. What's the consensus? Are we disenchanted with any of them?

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3 hours ago, Mattris said:

 

It's obvious to me (and millions of others) that Kathleen Kennedy wanted to use Star Wars to further her SJW/feminist agenda. So far, it hasn't worked out. But she can keep trying... until she is fired or moves on, of course.

You just said earlier it was a SJW/feminist issue...

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Hux is a delightfully hammy and incompetent goof who thinks he's a leader, it'll be interesting to see the rift between him and Kylo develop in 9 - a possible separation of the FO helping its downfall? Phasma is a throwaway henchman who was marketed and consequently hyped by fans as much more, a bit too useless even when not taking that into account. BB8 is fun. The porgs have their moments, but just a bit too many of them. It's a cute idea of representing Skellig Michael's wildlife instead of erasing it.

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Hux is dreadful. Really, all the villains in the film are.

 

BB-8 and the Porgs are delivered in such small doses that they're really a none-issue. I had a small issue with the comedy surrounding the caretakers, though. Nothing too major, but still.

 

13 minutes ago, Mattris said:

their aggressive agenda-driven approach to story-telling goes unnoticed.

 

I would disapprove of a feminist agenda infused into tentpole blockbusters as much as the next guy, but I really don't see your case when it refers specifically to these latest Star Wars films. There are three female characters in a film with quite a big cast. Its really not an issue.

 

13 minutes ago, Mattris said:

The fans are upset because, in general, the stories and characters are written poorly. If you don't notice the story-telling issues, won't admit that they exist, or don't noticed them at all that's on you.

 

Oh, there are storytelling issues with all these films all right, but for me personally none of them are that substantial.

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18 minutes ago, Mattris said:

If you don't notice the story-telling issues, won't admit that they exist, or don't noticed them at all that's on you. But millions of fans have noticed.

 

OK, please list about 2-3 huge storytelling flaws in the sequel trilogy so far and shortly explain why they are so significant that they break the whole thing for you. No circlejerk Youtube videos please, I'm interested in your examples and explanation. Genuine flaws which don't work for you, not nitpicks and "huge plotholes" which are brought up by 90% of commenter mobs and can be explained away with 10 seconds of thinking for yourself or actually paying attention and understanding characters, arcs and plot structure.

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@Mattris On the point of holding the filmmakers to account or them owing the fans something I think you're being a tad bit disingenuous. They don't owe anyone anything, they're there to make a film and then leave.

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18 minutes ago, Holko said:

OK, please list about 2-3 huge storytelling flaws in the sequel trilogy so far and shortly explain why they are so significant that they break the whole thing for you. No circlejerk Youtube videos please, I'm interested in your examples and explanation. Genuine flaws which don't work for you, not nitpicks and "huge plotholes" which are brought up by 90% of commenter mobs and can be explained away with 10 seconds of thinking for yourself or actually paying attention and understanding characters, arcs and plot structure.

 

He never ever talks about 'himself', but for millions of fans. Like with Prez Trump, nothing below world significance will do.

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3 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Oh, there are storytelling issues with all these films all right, but for me personally none of them are that substantial.

 

There's a huge time flaw in TESB where Luke apparently gets trained to become a Jedi in...a few days?

There are also major character inconsistencies between film in the original trilogy.

 

No one cares about that though.

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Hux is hilarious (my favourite moment is when he considers killing Kylo while he's unconscious) and the other elements of the movie mentioned in this page are fine.

 

As for "feminist agenda", it's the same as anything else. When you make something your convictions are always going to be there, directly, indirectly, in everything from character design to plot to morals to everywhere. You can't get rid of it. It's like asking Guillermo del Toro to not make movies about monsters; ideally there's always a personality there. But I can't see what so particularly feminist about this one given that it's not an issue in-universe (or at least that's the idea I get from the movies? I don't know). The meta-narrative might be but that'd imply people are actually annoyed about women talking on screen (because that's all it is), which... like... I mean... it's a bad look.

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22 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

There's a huge time flaw in TESB where Luke apparently gets trained to become a Jedi in...a few days?

 

I don't care. We don't learn anything in that movie about the passage of time (really, in most of them) so as to arise our suspicion as we're watching it: rationalizing it after-the-fact doesn't count. Rather, in watching The Empire Strikes Back, the audience is just swept away in the energy of the film.

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https://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/magazine/george-lucas-red-tails.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1

 

Was reminded of this bit recently

 

Quote

Lucas seized control of his movies from the studios only to discover that the fanboys could still give him script notes. “Why would I make any more,” Lucas says of the “Star Wars” movies, “when everybody yells at you all the time and says what a terrible person you are?”

 

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I didn't notice an SJW/feminist agenda, and neither did anyone else I know. But even if it was there, who cares?  Just enjoy the movie. 

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7 minutes ago, Demodex said:

I didn't notice an SJW/feminist agenda, and neither did anyone else I know. But even if it was there, who cares?  Just enjoy the movie. 

 

There's definitely a conserted effort to have strong female characters in these new films, and you can certainly sense something of a strong social message too. The thing is that I for the live of my cannot figure out why this should be a problem?

 

People like this Mattris remind me of the "Male Rights Activists" who called for a boycott of Mad Max: Fury Road because it had too many strong female characters. 

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@kaseykockroach do you have Mattris on ignore? Ha!

 

This thread is like a debate club: Mattris always the minority. 

Nothing to say about Star Wars anymore, except the toys are great.

Image result for star wars gifs

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8 hours ago, Mattris said:

The over-arching problem at Lucasfilm is much more serious than "the production woes surrounding the spin-off films". Whether you want to admit it or not, The Last Jedi was a major misstep for Lucasfilm. And what followed was just as bad: employees communicating with fans in grossly unprofessional ways, painting concerned/complaining Star Wars fans as stupid, racist, sexist, manbabies. Don't think this - and their aggressive agenda-driven approach to story-telling - goes unnoticed. Fans are being driven away in droves. This is no way for a brand or company to expand and succeed moving forward.

 

Let me be clear. The fans are not upset because of sexism or because "things didn't turn out like they wanted it to". The fans are upset because, in general, the stories and characters are written poorly. If you don't notice the story-telling issues, won't admit that they exist, or don't noticed them at all that's on you. But millions of fans have noticed. And it's within their rights to voice their concerns and stop going to these movies.

 

I just realized that in 22 pages, we haven't mentioned General Hux, Captain Phasma, BB-8, or the porgs. What's the consensus? Are we disenchanted with any of them?

Hux is great. Phasma is badass but wasted (Enfys Nest is better, mostly because she gets more screen time to be awesome). BB-8 will never be R2-D2 or C-3PO, but he/she/it doesn't need to be. The porgs are cute but not vital. 

Image result for star wars optimism gif

 

 

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