Star Wars Disenchantment

[mstrox 6,651]

54 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

a goodie takes a heel turn at one point

 

SPILL THE TEA, DISCO STUART

[Nick Parker 3,040]

1 hour ago, KK said:

And Blume wasn't behind this one?

 

Huh. Go figure.

 

And that filthy lying degenerate John wasn't either! 

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

I believe he compiled this thread, buddy.

[SteveMc 2,674]

1 minute ago, Jerry said:

I believe he compiled this thread, buddy.

He did not!  It is merely a technicality!

(John's not a bad fellow, though)

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

A thousand pardons.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

All one need do is visit the first post to see the story unfold. Before JAY! tainted its pristine original vision!!! Fake news, all of it!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Faaaayyyy'k nooosss!

[John 2,032]

7 minutes ago, Nick Parker said:

And that filthy lying degenerate John wasn't either! 

 

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

I need to watch that again!

[Nick Parker 3,040]

4 minutes ago, John said:

 

 

Get your cuss-eating grin out of here, you disgusting cussbag.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

4 minutes ago, Nick Parker said:

Get your cuss-eating grin out of here, you disgusting cussbag.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Just now, Jerry said:

 

Let Mom and Dad talk!

[Jay 37,359]

4 hours ago, KK said:

And Blume wasn't behind this one?

 

Huh. Go figure.

 

Who?

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I don't know who he is! His stuff comes in the mail!

[John 2,032]

[Demodex 557]

This Star Wars Analysis Will End the Debate About Luke Skywalker's Character in The Last Jedi

 

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/movies/a22139405/luke-skywalker-star-wars-last-jedi-analysis/

[Mattris 416]

That article's author - or more appropriately, Twitter post compiler - sounds like a fool, but Mr. McIntosh made some astute observations. Though, neither mentioned the fact that Rian Johnson wrote Luke Skywalker as a Jedi Master who considered killing his nephew in his sleep because he sensed he might do some bad things. Ben Solo then turns to the Dark Side, destroys Luke's Jedi Temple, and kills most of his students.

 

Many fans feel that this event was the ultimate betrayal of Luke Skywalker, a character who, in Return of the Jedi, was willing to put his own life in jeopardy (multiple times) in an effort to bring his father to the Light Side.

 

So no, that analysis will not end the debate about Luke Skywalker's character in The Last Jedi.

[Holko 9,526]

Fuck's sake... All throughout Jedi, Luke is saying he feels there is still good left in Vader. He looked into Ben to confirm his fears and all he saw was darkness. And having a reflex in a terrified split-second delirium, then immediately regretting it afterwards, is not the same as consciously considering it.

[Chen G. 3,949]

I suppose if you intellectualize it too much it would seem out-of-character, but it’s such a brief part of the film, it’s really not warranted.

 

When I first saw it, I was impressed, purely by how balsy Johnson was to go this far with Luke.

 

Its also the first attempt in these films to craft anything even remotely non-linear  in terms of storytelling, which was refreshing.

[Nick1Ø66 4,714]

On 7/15/2018 at 12:36 AM, Demodex said:

This Star Wars Analysis Will End the Debate About Luke Skywalker's Character in The Last Jedi

 

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/movies/a22139405/luke-skywalker-star-wars-last-jedi-analysis/

 

Interesting. This chap Mcintosh may be on to something. Perhaps it's not what Lucas, or Johnson, intended...but it's a pretty tidy and convincing theory.

 

I will say the guy who wrote the article for Esquire, however, does sound like a bit of a wanker. Here's his first paragraph:

 

Quote

 

To be perfectly clear, I thought Star Wars: The Last Jedi was an absolutely entertaining children's movie. However, it's been somewhat more entertaining to watch the furious debate about the film in the last seven months since it was released. There are those, like myself, who thought Rian Johnson made the most complex Star Wars movie to date—one that shows growth of beloved dynamic characters who face both triumphs and challenges. Then there are those who think the movie should have been populated by only hot white heroes with lots of abs doing manly things.

 

 

 

 

Let's set aside the absurdity that Twitter "analysis" can "settle" a debate about art.  In one paragraph he manages to use the word entertaining twice (in as many sentences), claims he liked TLJ (and also dismissing it) as an "entertaining Children's movie", then goes on to say at the same time it's the "most complex Star Wars movie to date."  Yet, apparently despite loving it as both a kid's movie and something incredibly complex, he's still more entertained by hate reading the comments of those who don't like it (interesting take for a pop culture "journalist")...which he claims are nothing more than the ravings of people who apparently admire heroes who do lots of sit ups. And that's just the first paragraph. Later he manages to use exclamation points, characterising feelings that no one expressed but himself, no less than three times.

 

Got it? Those, like himself, appreciate entertaining & "complex" children's movies, like TLJ, while those who didn't like it  are obsessed with people doing "manly things" (while in his own bio admitting to an obsession with Kevin James).

 

I seriously wonder how some of these people get their jobs.  I find 75%+ of the comments here to be more enlightening on film & music than most of what's written in the mainstream press (and that's saying something!)

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Believe me, I've known tech journos who are absolutely clueless about important shit, like film presentation on disc. I had a hard time convincing one that DNR ruins the look of a film, but he kept on ranting that film grain looks like you may as well be watching VHS.

[Mattris 416]

On 7/26/2018 at 3:05 AM, Holko said:

Fuck's sake... All throughout Jedi, Luke is saying he feels there is still good left in Vader. He looked into Ben to confirm his fears and all he saw was darkness. And having a reflex in a terrified split-second delirium, then immediately regretting it afterwards, is not the same as consciously considering it.

 

The Luke & Ben Story #3: The Truth, told by Luke to Rey:

 

One night at Luke's Jedi Academy, Luke "went to confront" Ben Solo, who was sleeping at the time. So Luke used the Force to probe his mind/soul: "I saw darkness. I sensed it building in him. I'd seen it in moments during his training. But then I looked inside, and it was beyond what I ever imagined. Snoke had already turned his heart. He would bring destruction, pain, death, and the end of everything I love because of what he will become. And for the briefest moment of pure instinct, I thought I could stop it. It passed like a fleeting shadow. And I was left with shame and with consequence. And the last thing I saw were the eyes of a frightened boy whose Master had failed him."

 

During this event, Luke took his lightsaber from his belt, ignited and raised it in preparation to strike. This woke Ben, who summoned and ignited his own lightsaber and struck Luke's saber before collapsing the roof using the Force. Luke escaped the rubble to find his Jedi Academy destroyed and Ben gone with some of his students... the rest killed.

 

This was absolutely not "a reflex in a terrified split-second delirium". Luke's and actions thoughts happened over a span of a minute. And what manifested was Luke "consciously considering" killing his nephew in cold blood. It doesn't matter that it was a brief "moment" that "passed" and that he "immediately regretted".

 

Luke could have been shown making an effort to turn Ben back to the Light Side - but instead he was written as immediately defeated, retreating into seclusion on a remote planet, refusing to ever leave.

 

In the Original Trilogy, the Luke made mistakes that were character-building. Portraying the once optimistic Luke Skywalker as a disillusioned Jedi in the new trilogy would have made for an interesting character exploration. But what was depicted in The Last Jedi was character assassination, plain and simple.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,344]

All this talk and with The Mummy Returns sound butchering reminds me a lot of this..an intriguing parallel. 

http://www.whataboutthad.com/2012/01/23/musings-down-candy-cane-lane/

[Mattris 416]

John, could you please change the title of this thread back to its original title "Star Wars Disenchantment"?

 

The members of JWFan have no need to be hostile. The only people I might call "hostile" were those who flung insults when the conversation became... interesting.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

We are a peaceful people!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I don't like arguing anymore. It gives me a T spike.

[Arpy 4,145]

52 minutes ago, Mattris said:

John, could you please change the title of this thread back to its original title "Star Wars Disenchantment"?

 

The members of JWFan have no need to be hostile. The only people I might call "hostile" were those who flung insults when the conversation became... interesting.

I agree, it's hard to keep track of who hates what and what happened to the Star Wars thread?

 

 

[John 2,032]

It was Stu’s idea!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Just now, John said:

It was Stu’s idea!

 

And where is he now?

[Jurassic Shark 12,073]

In his new house, probably.

 

On 7/26/2018 at 9:53 AM, Mattris said:

That article's author - or more appropriately, Twitter post compiler - sounds like a fool, but Mr. McIntosh made some astute observations. Though, neither mentioned the fact that Rian Johnson wrote Luke Skywalker as a Jedi Master who considered killing his nephew in his sleep because he sensed he might do some bad things. Ben Solo then turns to the Dark Side, destroys Luke's Jedi Temple, and kills most of his students.

 

Many fans feel that this event was the ultimate betrayal of Luke Skywalker, a character who, in Return of the Jedi, was willing to put his own life in jeopardy (multiple times) in an effort to bring his father to the Light Side.

 

So no, that analysis will not end the debate about Luke Skywalker's character in The Last Jedi.

 

People change, you know.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

That was eight years ago. Some people change.

[John 2,032]

25 minutes ago, Cherry Pie That'll Kill Ya said:

And where is he now?

 

He was... driven mad by what lurks within this thread. 

[Chen G. 3,949]

On 7/27/2018 at 4:08 AM, Mattris said:

In the Original Trilogy, the Luke made mistakes that were character-building. Portraying the once optimistic Luke Skywalker as a disillusioned Jedi in the new trilogy would have made for an interesting character exploration. But what was depicted in The Last Jedi was character assassination, plain and simple.

 

I appreciate it if only on the level of the audacity of it. I didn't percieve it as character assasination and really, I think there's an argument to be made that the occasional contrivnce in film, be it in plotting or character decision, can be excused if it pushes the story in an interesting direction.

 

Part of what I didn't appreciate on rewatch was the way Johnson showed us this flashback from two different perspectives: Luke's and Kylo's. But instead of keeping it reasonably ambiguous, he gave a tell-tale sign that Kylo's account is the one that's off the mark, with the use of very hightened, ghoulish makeup on Luke when the scene is shown through Kylo's eyes.

[SteveMc 2,674]

1 hour ago, Cherry Pie That'll Kill Ya said:

 

And where is he now?

Probably arguing with the cable people.  Moving has its stressors.

 

5 hours ago, Mattris said:

John, could you please change the title of this thread back to its original title "Star Wars Disenchantment"?

 

The members of JWFan have no need to be hostile. The only people I might call "hostile" were those who flung insults when the conversation became... interesting.

This is @Nick Parker's thread!  Ignore the official credit!

[Naïve Old Fart 9,525]

2 hours ago, Cherry Pie That'll Kill Ya said:

 

And where is he now?

 

He's at home, washing his tights! 

[Nick Parker 3,040]

1 hour ago, Steve McQueen said:

 

 

This is @Nick Parker's thread!  Ignore the official credit!

 

Alas, dear friend, it goes beyond credit...when the thread was...altered, with a lie, all power was transferred from me...to him....

[Mattris 416]

No one has objected to the topic title being changed back. "Star Wars Disenchantment" will do. Your move, John.

[SteveMc 2,674]

EDIT:

Mistake. carry on

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Just now, Steve McQueen said:

It used to be "Star Wars Disfunction" I believe.

 

The REAL original post of this thread contains the truth. I'd say the answer straightaway, but I'd rather people search and discover the beginnings of my magnum opus...I'm like that one old broad in Sunset Boulevard.

[SteveMc 2,674]

My mistake has been preserved!  

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

Mattris is back? I thought I wouldn't see 'im 'til IX, if 'e even watches it.

[A24 4,331]

9 hours ago, Steve McQueen said:

 

 

Why did Lucas go for the biggest cartoon cliche in history? Has it ever been discussed? How do the fans defend this embarrassing moment?

[Mattris 416]

8 hours ago, Jerry said:

Mattris is back? I thought I wouldn't see 'im 'til IX, if 'e even watches it.

 

I'm back. If you disagree with the contents of my post from Thursday, why don't you have a go at arguing against it. Those disappointed most in TLJ would agree with me.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

20 minutes ago, Mattris said:

 

I'm back. If you disagree with the contents of my post from Thursday, why don't you have a go at arguing against it. Those disappointed most in TLJ would agree with me.

 

Have you ever watched Twelve Angry Men and Groundhog Day?

[Naïve Old Fart 9,525]

I like TLJ, but, like so many things in life, it's a piece of ephemera. There are far more important things, out there, than STAR WARS. As J. Lennon esq. once said "it's nothing to get hung about".

[Nick1Ø66 4,714]

 

4 hours ago, Richard said:

I like TLJ, but, like so many things in life, it's a piece of ephemera. There are far more important things, out there, than STAR WARS. As J. Lennon esq. once said "it's nothing to get hung about".

 

Such is it with all popular culture, no?

 

As V. Lenin said, the “way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation.”

 

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

On 7/26/2018 at 9:08 PM, Mattris said:

One night at Luke's Jedi Academy, Luke "went to confront" Ben Solo, who was sleeping at the time. So Luke used the Force to probe his mind/soul: "I saw darkness. I sensed it building in him. I'd seen it in moments during his training. But then I looked inside, and it was beyond what I ever imagined. Snoke had already turned his heart. He would bring destruction, pain, death, and the end of everything I love because of what he will become. And for the briefest moment of pure instinct, I thought I could stop it. It passed like a fleeting shadow. And I was left with shame and with consequence. And the last thing I saw were the eyes of a frightened boy whose Master had failed him."

 

During this event, Luke took his lightsaber from his belt, ignited and raised it in preparation to strike. This woke Ben, who summoned and ignited his own lightsaber and struck Luke's saber before collapsing the roof using the Force. Luke escaped the rubble to find his Jedi Academy destroyed and Ben gone with some of his students... the rest killed.

 

This was absolutely not "a reflex in a terrified split-second delirium". Luke's and actions thoughts happened over a span of a minute. And what manifested was Luke "consciously considering" killing his nephew in cold blood. It doesn't matter that it was a brief "moment" that "passed" and that he "immediately regretted".

 

Luke could have been shown making an effort to turn Ben back to the Light Side - but instead he was written as immediately defeated, retreating into seclusion on a remote planet, refusing to ever leave.

 

In the Original Trilogy, the Luke made mistakes that were character-building. Portraying the once optimistic Luke Skywalker as a disillusioned Jedi in the new trilogy would have made for an interesting character exploration. But what was depicted in The Last Jedi was character assassination, plain and simple.

 

8 hours ago, Mattris said:

I'm back. If you disagree with the contents of my post from Thursday, why don't you have a go at arguing against it. Those disappointed most in TLJ would agree with me.

Kylo Ren is evil. The good that was in him is gone. What Rey saw in him, as @Chen G. will tell you, was an illusion to bring her to him, whether it be to defeat Snoke and his guards or to ultimately turn Rey, or a combination of both. He was not hesitant to kill his father, hesitant to kill his mother but ultimately forgetting her, not hesitant to kill Luke, now extremely hateful of the Resistance. Very little indication has been shown that there is indeed light in him. 

 

Ben Solo being Luke's nephew, it would be hard for him to kill him, naturally. Luke had been training Ben Solo, and others, for a while it seems. If they did not heed and follow his wisdom of the light side then, and he could see that even after their training in the light they were overcome with darkness, it shows that even despite all the training and work of Luke into his Jedi academy was not enough to overpower the darkness of Snoke, who influenced Ben Solo from afar. Perhaps when Luke looked into his mind he saw the death of Han, Resistance ships exploding, the Hosnian system destroyed, his temple in flames. It was a complete and utter disgrace and disappointment as a reflection of all he had attempted to accomplish.

 

Luke tried to follow Yoda's words to pass on what he had learned. And despite pouring himself into a new generation of Jedi for the Force knows how long, still they turned to darkness. He failed, or as Rey put, Kylo failed him. Luke attempting to turn Ben would only result in perhaps more pain. Luke couldn't bring himself to kill him, but it was too late for anything else.

 

Don't try to rewrite The Last Jedi, bud.

Original meme by Jerry, the former illustrious. Circa 2018.

[Pellaeon 593]

11 hours ago, Alexcremers said:

Why did Lucas go for the biggest cartoon cliche in history? Has it ever been discussed? How do the fans defend this embarrassing moment?

 

The Prequels have fans?

[A24 4,331]

More and more these days ...

 

Even the prequel haters of the past want Ewan MGregor back for Obi Wan: A Star Wars Story.

 

 

 

[Nick1Ø66 4,714]

30 minutes ago, Jerry said:

 

Kylo Ren is evil.

 

From a certain point of view.