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Star Wars Disenchantment


John

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2 minutes ago, Steve McQueen said:

Houston is humid.  They are awful drivers. And it is a bit ugly.

But some of the suburbs are quite nice.

The Woodlands is a lovely place.

 

May our children forgive us.

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The Last Jedi was on tele last night. I think this movie might be too clever for most fans to appreciate. Especially considering how it's definitely the most meta in the series. I couldn't help grinning at its most self-aware moments. It's a shame they'll probably never make another one like it.

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9 minutes ago, Cherry Pie That'll Kill Ya said:

I think this movie might be too clever for most fans to appreciate

Normally I'd write a quote like this off as pure intellectual snobism, but seeing the incredibly shallow and surface-level whining in Youtube comments writing minute things off as proof for Disney killing the franchise, this may be right.

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42 minutes ago, Cherry Pie That'll Kill Ya said:

The Last Jedi was on tele last night. I think this movie might be too clever for most fans to appreciate. Especially considering how it's definitely the most meta in the series. I couldn't help grinning at its most self-aware moments. It's a shame they'll probably never make another one like it.

 

Interesting, weren't you pretty skeptical of the movie following its reviews? Or did you already see the movie before last night? I can't remember.

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45 minutes ago, Cherry Pie That'll Kill Ya said:

I think this movie might be too clever for most fans to appreciate.

 

All the fans I know loved it, otherwise I would agree. 

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Reading the YouTube comments on Plinkett's review, once again I'm reminded of how amusing so many of people's derisions of this movie, its makers, and the people who enjoy it are. All the accusations of people who like it being childish, not liking their mind challenged, and not Star Wars fans. Very cute stuff. :)

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1 hour ago, Richard said:

By "original", do you mean TFA (yes), or STAR WARS (a different film, for a different time)?

 

The TFA isn't the original, Richard. There is only one original. 

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The original had a strong female character and the male leads are either whiny or made to look dumb. I mean just listen to Han's conversation on the intercom in the cell block!

Lucas obviously had a feminist agenda!

 

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2 minutes ago, Demodex said:

Lucas obviously had a feminist agenda!

 

Well, the "equality-of-outcome" nonesense can be traced back to the seventies, so...

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On 8/6/2018 at 11:15 AM, mstrox said:

I don't intend to convince you!  Although if I wanted to convince you of anything, it would be to spend your time and energy on things you like or love, instead of ragging on things you don't like.

 

Under other circumstances, I would take your advice. But Star Wars is being disrespected and disgraced, and I intend to convince you... and anyone else who has doubts regarding its current path.

 

On 8/13/2018 at 11:59 PM, Horner's Dynamic Range said:

I just thought his inclusion was pointless. He could have very easily been written out of the movie and Ray given an actual role in the finale rather than the Luke-centric ending we got. He never trains her, he never does anything to advance the plot other than cause a distraction.

 

... a distraction required to save the last of the Resistance fighters because Rose, once again, aggressively intervened on Finn's behalf. But if the crystal foxes could have lead the survivors to the hole-in-the-wall (where Rey was waiting to lift the rocks for them) just a few minutes sooner, Luke's appearance wouldn't have been necessary. What creative writing from Rian Johnson!

 

Like many SW fans, I thought that a disenchanted Luke Skywalker could have been an intriguing direction for the character. But his lack of involvement in the film - including the fact that he never left the island or participated in a lightsaber duel - was beyond disappointing.

 

On 8/14/2018 at 7:08 AM, Disco Stu said:

Not true at all.  He helps to give her context for the connection to the Force she's already feeling but is only able to tap into on instinct.  He helps to define what the Force is and show her how to consciously reach out and feel that connection.

 

Luke gave Rey his definition of the Force and a few things to think about, but offered her little real training. She eventually called him out on his pathetic defeatist attitude (in the deleted scene), stole the Jedi texts, and - since she knew the Resistance were in the direst of situations - left without him to continue on Mary Sue Road. If Luke Skywalker wasn't already dead at this point, he committed suicide (by Force projection/subversion) soon after.

 

TLJ is full of dreadful writing... sourced from the Dark Side. Instead of prioritizing the advancement of the characters and story-lines, it's clear to me that the film's main goals were to push a social/political agenda and screw with the audience's expectations at every turn.

 

Listen to your inner Star Wars fan. Reject this nonsense. Demand a higher standard from the owners of Star Wars. Disney/Lucasfilm employees should be held accountable for their actions - and inaction. At the Solo premiere, Kathleen Kennedy said that she looks forward to the fans' reactions. She has not be seen or heard from since - not even in a recent Lucasfilm promotional video. I'm intrigued to see what happens next.

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1 hour ago, Mattris said:

I intend to convince you... and anyone else who has doubts regarding its current path.

 

Yeah, how's that working out for you?  I've heard you complain about it for months and you haven't convinced me of anything other than you don't like strong female characters. 

 

Your complaints about feminism could be said about ANH as well. 

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@Mattris my friend, hope you're doing well! :) To respond to this: 

4 hours ago, Mattris said:

But Star Wars is being disrespected and disgraced, and I intend to convince you.

 

I don't think you're a "troll". I don't think you do this to make people upset or get a rise out of them.  I think you genuinely want to have a conversation about this movie and how it's a symbol of a dark turn for this series you care about. 

 

But at the risk of sounding repetitive, this is not a debate about ethics, morality, or politics. We're talking about a creative product, or if you prefer the term, art. Speaking for myself and perhaps others who enjoy the film, it emotionally and intellectually resonated with me in a way that is very "solid", with strong foundations. Ask yourself honestly, do you think pointing out things such as potential plot holes/errors--which appear in more films than not, and in most cases tend to be superficial in its impact--is going to make someone like me say, "Oh, yeah, I didn't think about that! Yeah, screw all of the things I think this movie did right, it sucks, now." 

 

My first experience with that in Star Wars was when at 11 I thought about the original's climax, and said, "Hey, why do they even bother with the trench, why don't they just go at the exhaust port from straight above? It'd be quicker, safer, and the torpedoes won't even have to do some weird curvy thing!" And then I chuckled and realized that I didn't care at all: the characters, music, writing, and worlds connected with me in a way that transcended that sort of thing.

 

While the criticism you've raised about The Last Jedi are not just nitpick superficial stuff like that, as far as influence on at least my opinion of the film, it has had the same effect. Meaning to say, not one at all. If you want to convince at least myself that The Last Jedi sucks, you would have to convince me that my emotional and intellectual response to the characters, the themes, the scenarios, music, etc. as conveyed by Rian Johnson and co. was/is wrong. 

 

Which, as you probably realize by this point in my post, is not something you can really do. Again, I can only of course speak for myself, but perhaps some of the other fans of this film might find something to agree with.

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4 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Mattris, there's more to life than Star Wars. Just sayin'.

There is? 😄

3 hours ago, Demodex said:

Your complaints about feminism could be said about ANH as well. 

Don't get started...

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8 hours ago, Demodex said:

 

Yeah, how's that working out for you?  I've heard you complain about it for months and you haven't convinced me of anything other than you don't like strong female characters. 

 

Your complaints about feminism could be said about ANH as well. 

 

If you truly think that I "don't like strong female characters", I cannot help you. (Re-read my posts from the beginning.) At this point, I will only remind you that I don't like poorly-written (and poorly-incorporated) characters - male or female. Unfortunately for SW fans, TLJ has them in spades.

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After I saw TLJ and had some time to absorb it, I wondered why did people thought it was so terrible? Did they even see Independence Day: Resurgence? That's a case study on how bad a movie can be, script-wise and production-value-wise.

 

At least TLJ didn't look hilariously phoney in almost every second shot while pretending to act like it was taking itself seriously, or Kylo Ren chasing after a school bus. The casting of the new and younger mob in TFA/TLJ had foresight since they have charisma that seemed to have resonated with audiences, while the casting in IDR was one monumental mistake after another.

 

Not to mention the original composer returned instead of some cheap, Z-grade piss they hired for the ID4 sequel.

 

You SW fans have no clue how good you've got it!

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Well, at any rate, with every resurgence of this thread, calls another dance classic from the 80s and 90s, a time where everything--especially Star Wars was much better. We're going to bring it down a few notches today:

 

 

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