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What is your go-to feel-good movie?

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20 hours ago, Richard said:

What do JWfaners think of foreign movies (a term that I don't like, but still...) dubbed into English?

 

I would prefer subtitles. But i say that from a german POV.

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I, too, am a subtitles man. Every language has its own distinct rhythm and musicality, and while of course subtitles still are going to alter/influence your perception of the original writing, there are at least the original performances to give you an idea of how those ideas are conveyed in the language.

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I'm surprised Ferris Beuller's Day Off hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread. For me, it's the ultimate feel-good movie, sullied only by the fact that the actor who played the principal turned out to be a real-life pedophile. I don't enjoy his scenes as much anymore, sadly.

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20 hours ago, Datameister said:

I'm surprised Ferris Beuller's Day Off hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread. For me, it's the ultimate feel-good movie, sullied only by the fact that the actor who played the principal turned out to be a real-life pedophile. I don't enjoy his scenes as much anymore, sadly.

 

This post reads like stereo instructions.

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C'mon guys, I just copied the Drax's original $300 sheets quote into Google and it immediately told me it was a quote from Beetlejuice.

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On 13/06/2018 at 10:47 AM, Brundlefly said:

You should not have that much hatred against German dubs, because while our movies are the worst, our dubs are the best. (Seriously, some German movies should be dubbed by German voice actors, since they're normally better.) It's an art form that is executed since the beginning of the past century. It can't be compared to Spanish, French or American dubs that are usually of much lower quality. Of course it cannot always nail it a 100%, but considering what they achieve is pretty impressive.

 

It's like a full orchestra symphony performed by a high school rock band. A lousy high school rock band, most of the time. Sure, sometimes they have a good day, and on very rare occasions their complete reinterpretation even results in a satisfying alternate view of the original. But even then it's definitely a reinterpretation/remake, and the other 99%+ of the time it's just bad.

On 13/06/2018 at 1:41 PM, Brundlefly said:

Isn't it a misconception when something is seen as a problem that is just different but not necessarily worse?

 

No, it's not. If it's different but not necessarily worse it's still something else. A really well-dubbed film is usually still something else than the original, except that it pretends to be just that. And most of the time it *is* worse.

On 14/06/2018 at 7:37 AM, publicist said:

Yes, but still fuzzy and pedantic. The whole argument really falls apart when you admit to yourself that not every movie and tv series is that precious - in reality, they are mostly not - and must be scholarly studied like a sumptuous masterpiece. if you're too lazy, just watch the damn dub and don't lose sleep over it...;)

 

I like to think that something doesn't necessarily have to be high art to be artistically worthwhile. And a dub is at least like a rearrangement of a musical work for different instruments. Even when it's good it's a different work of (more or less) art.

 

More importantly, a main focus of films are actors and actresses. Even in dubbed films, they are praised and criticised for their performances. Only nobody who has only watched a dub as actually *seen* their performances - well, seen yes, but heavily distorted by someone else's vocal performance, unless it's a silent role. Even if it's a brilliant vocal performance, it's a different language, with different semantics and therefore different timings than the original, and thus in conflict with the original performance.

 

On 14/06/2018 at 7:37 AM, publicist said:

Case-in-point (as Marian cited him): Tom Hanks performances. They are boring. Save maybe for stuff like 'The Ladykillers' i just don't see why anyone should be appalled at watching him dubbed in, i. e., 'Captain Philips' or such. 

 

Years ago on some German film forum, I've seen someone make a point that many Germans considered Hanks a poor actor simply because they haven't seen him with his original voice, and I still think that's spot on.

On 14/06/2018 at 10:55 AM, Brundlefly said:

Maybe the only revelation was that Arnold Schwarzenegger is a terrible actor. His German voice actor is a professionally educated theatre actor, so I always thought Arny was a quite decent.

 

His German voice is still a cardboard cliche dub voice, and only "good" in the way that Schwarzenegger himself isn't any better. But at least he's (unintentionally) funny.

 

On 14/06/2018 at 10:55 AM, Brundlefly said:

Anyway, it's about what is good and what is bad and not about what is original and what is dubbed.

 

No. It's about whether a dubbed film is a correct representation of the original (it isn't) just as much as whether it is better or worse or equal to the original. A dub can be better, just as a dubstep cover of an orchestral symphony *can* be better than the original, but it hardly ever happens, and it usually requires the original to be not very good.

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A pseudo-intellectual post from the "dub is bad"-front. I've had that discussion too many times. You simply disdain the impressive work of dubs in general and just pretend that they're bad. Do you expect them to fulfill 100% faithfulness to the original? I don't get it... Well, I get it, since I have been part of the "dub is bad"-front.

 

PS: I don't even watch movies in German any more.

 

PS#2: Tom Hanks' performance in Forrest Gump was less convincing in the original.

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5 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

I like to think that something doesn't necessarily have to be high art to be artistically worthwhile. And a dub is at least like a rearrangement of a musical work for different instruments. Even when it's good it's a different work of (more or less) art.

 

Jeez, Marian, you take this shit awfully seriously, do you?

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12 hours ago, publicist said:

Jeez, Marian, you take this shit awfully seriously, do you?

 

Yes.

 

18 hours ago, Brundlefly said:

A pseudo-intellectual post from the "dub is bad"-front. I've had that discussion too many times. You simply disdain the impressive work of dubs in general and just pretend that they're bad. Do you expect them to fulfill 100% faithfulness to the original? I don't get it... Well, I get it, since I have been part of the "dub is bad"-front.

 

Of course your in-depth "dubs are great, anyone who doesn't like them is a fraud" argument is much more convincing. ;)

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The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring: really the only movie from the trilogy that I can just put on and sit all the way through in a single sitting.

 

The Star Wars original trilogy: a lot of fun, and pure cinematic comfort food.

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11 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

Of course your in-depth "dubs are great, anyone who doesn't like them is a fraud" argument is much more convincing. ;)

 

Problem is, yours sound exactly the same (at least going by the Hanks argument and all the other rubbish i heard in pretentious Berlin film circles 20 years ago). Since 20 years everyone can choose which language version he/she prefers. I know there are lots of bad dubs out there, especially recently, but also very good ones. And a lot of them for classic films. Why not let those be if you not interested in them, anyway?

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25 minutes ago, John said:

The Star Wars original trilogy: a lot of fun, and pure cinematic comfort food.

 

Hey, hey, hey! You won't get away with that so easily! Which versions?

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3 minutes ago, Holko said:

Hey, hey, hey! You won't get away with that so easily! Which versions?

 

ot dvd.png

 

A flawed release, perhaps, but they've served me well.

 

Still patiently awaiting a release of the unaltered OT on Blu-ray sometime in the distant future... :(

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Just now, John said:

 

ot dvd.png

 

A flawed release, perhaps, but they've served me well.

 

Still patiently awaiting a release of the unaltered OT on Blu-ray sometime in the distant future... :(

 

I watch the Silver Screen Edition of SW instead these days. It's a stunning 1080p scan. But for the other two, I watch those DVDs.

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On a quick scan through, no-DNR 4k77 looks sharper, but more grainy and a bit more filthy than Silver Screen Edition.

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I don't really feel like devoting the mental energy to parse between the different fan versions, so I'm fine with Harmy for all three.  Close enough to HD versions of the movies I loved as a kid.

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14 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

I don't really feel like devoting the mental energy to parse between the different fan versions, so I'm fine with Harmy for all three.  Close enough to HD versions of the movies I loved as a kid.

 

Same.

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1 hour ago, publicist said:

 

Problem is, yours sound exactly the same (at least going by the Hanks argument and all the other rubbish i heard in pretentious Berlin film circles 20 years ago). Since 20 years everyone can choose which language version he/she prefers. I know there are lots of bad dubs out there, especially recently, but also very good ones. And a lot of them for classic films. Why not let those be if you not interested in them, anyway?

It's as simple as that.

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3 hours ago, publicist said:

 

Problem is, yours sound exactly the same (at least going by the Hanks argument and all the other rubbish i heard in pretentious Berlin film circles 20 years ago). Since 20 years everyone can choose which language version he/she prefers. I know there are lots of bad dubs out there, especially recently, but also very good ones. And a lot of them for classic films. Why not let those be if you not interested in them, anyway?

 

Well, I stand by what I said. And with the exception of the Hanks example (which I read years ago somewhere online, as mentioned), they're my personal opinions. It's easy to let them be these days, now that home video releases nearly (!) always contain the original language (though German ones often go overboard and replace title cards and even other in-film texts and displays with translated version instead of adding subtitles, even when you're watching in the original language) and because living in Vienna, I have at least two and a half regular English cinema that cover most of the mainstream and not-quite-mainstream English films. Others in more provincial regions of Austria and Germany are less lucky and have to go to greater lengths to avoid dubs. Before the DVD format became standard, it was much more problematic. And of course, most regularly available TV channels here are useless to me.

 

Nevertheless, I find it sad that it's standard practice to dub every mainstream film and for many people to equate the actors' performances to what they see in the dub. Compare a native German film to a dubbed English or French one - the native film sounds authentic and very different from the others, but the way the dubbed English and French films are narrated is virtually indistinguishable - it's not the fact that they're English or French that defines the way they sound (which would be alright) but the fact that they're dubbed.

 

Luckily, dubs don't usually delay theatrical releases anymore like they used to (or at least I assume the dubbing process was a major factor in the delay between international release dates), though we still get at least animated Disney and Pixar films months later.

 

And there are certain dubs that I find morally objectable. Like Die Hard, which makes the terrorists European instead of German with some "clever" dialogue changes, because apparently Germans can't (or couldn't back then) accept being the villains. And Starship Troopers, which (presumably to tone down the fascist component of the film) glosses over several of the harder satirical elements of the original, absurdly with the result of making the film less of a fascist satire and more direct fascist propaganda.

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I agree with you that original versions should be accesible in every cinema in Germany and the original version should alqays be available in every BD and DVD (which is normally the case).

I also agree with you that the censorship of Die Hard and Starship Troopers is quite dumb, although that is an extremely rare case.

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