phbart 609 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 22 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: Are you sure you think Family Plot sounds better than Jaws? It sounds cleaner, somewhat less processed (heavy processing is the only way, I believe, the Jaws recordings can be decently presented). The orchestra sounds closer too, more present. I just gave a listen to the first track "The First Séance" to make sure my ears weren't fooling me, and indeed Jaws doesn't sound as good. 21 minutes ago, Jay said: 1st generation elements were stored properly by WB for The Cowboys and by Sony for CE3K, while Universal didn't properly store Jaws' 1st gen elements and later dubs had to be used instead. That's the difference. Yes. Not only we don't know how may generations away from the original recordings those dubs are and how well were they preserved from 1975 to 2000, but crappy tape stock was used to make them. Add that to the mix, and you have one the most iconics film music of all time being decently presented only 40 years after the initial release. There's no business like show business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,355 Posted June 21, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted June 21, 2018 Catching up on the discussion that happened overnight, this is what I have to say. I don't think it's correct to call the 1994 Varese CD of the Cowboys "the OST". An OST album is an album commissioned around the time of a film's release, funded by the marketing budget of the film, where the composer (or someone he hires to do it for him) gets to arrange the music recorded for the film into a music album for the mass market, possibly with additional music recorded specifically for it that wasn't ever meant to be heard in the film. The Cowboys never got an OST album at the time of the film's release, and during the sessions Williams didn't record anything that wasn't intended for use in the film. The 1994 Varese CD is a catalog release of the film recordings for a niche market, no different from other similar situations such as Heartbeeps, Poseidon Adventure, Family Plot, Black Sunday, etc. What makes it "seem" different is that instead paying for every cue and putting them in chronological order, they decided to only buy 30 minutes worth and present them out of order. The 30 minute length was more determined by AFM licensing fees at the time, rather than any kind of artistic expression. Doing so also allowed Varese to press more than 3,000 copies and attempt to sell and market it more like an OST album than a catalog expansion/premiere. And no, Williams did NOT produce the 1994 CD, he didn't decide which cues to include, he didn't decide the order, and he didn't sign off on what was done after the fact. And it wasn't based off some old paperwork dug up that indicated what he would have done for an OST album in 1972 if he had been given the opportunity either (That should be obvious, since it includes music recorded in 1974). The "produced by" credit on the 1994 CD is either an error/mistake, or just a contractual obligation they put on any release of his music at the time. I'm too lazy right now to see if Heartbeeps, Poseidon Adventure, Family Plot, Black Sunday, etc say "produced by John Williams" on them or not, but he didn't actually produce or approve those either. Now, there's nothing wrong with enjoying the 1994 CD. There's nothing wrong with not noticing or caring that they grabbed the wrong takes, transferred them at the wrong speed, or downmixed the LCR master to stereo incorrectly. Nobody is taking your old CD away from you. But it's certainly true that this new album absolutely is the first and only release of this music with the correct takes, the correct speed, and the correct audio mix, and the it's absolutely true that is is the first and only release of this score approved by John Williams. Ricard, Yavar Moradi, Holko and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,072 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 9 minutes ago, Jay said: I don't think it's correct to call the 1994 Varese CD of the Cowboys "the OST". An OST album is an album commissioned around the time of a film's release, funded by the marketing budget of the film, where the composer (or someone he hires to do it for him) gets to arrange the music recorded for the film into a music album for the mass market, possibly with additional music recorded specifically for it that wasn't ever meant to be heard in the film. I think most of us know this, but it's just more convenient to call it the OST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt S. 493 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 I feel like at this point CDs should have those disclaimers like in political ads: ”I’m John Williams, and I approved this album.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 2 hours ago, Jay said: Nobody is taking your old CD away from you. When the border police are done putting children into cages, they'll use the cages to hold all the outdated OST albums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,501 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 I've now listened to the promo, and while the sound quality sounds reasonably fresh compared to the OST (yes, I'm going to call it that), it's not really a radical difference -- like the two releases of RAIN MAN, for example. Also, the presentation and sequencing makes it borderline unlistenable as one singular piece/work, IMO, which is a shame because it has so many good individual tracks (and that's without the bonus/alternate tracks at the end taken in consideration). The music is top notch, and unquestionably the best western score Williams did. The OST is perfectly selected and arranged, whoever did it (probably Townson); it contains all the highlights. But I'll probably hold on to the digital promo, in case I want to replace the tracks of the OST with the new tracks in my iTunes (slightly better sound, correct channels etc.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellaeon 593 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Please post your playlist if you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted June 21, 2018 Author Share Posted June 21, 2018 It's already been posted here: http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/28620-the-cowboys-1972-new-2018-varese-deluxe-edition/&do=findComment&comment=1495975 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellaeon 593 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Yes, and thank you, Jay. I was just curious which tracks Thor would replace and which he would keep. And what he would do about the Alternate Main Title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,501 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Sorry for the confusion. It would be exactly the same tracks as the OST, in the same order. Didn't hear any unreleased tracks that would warrant an inclusion, but I'll probably need to give it another listen to see if I missed any unreleased highlight that would fit into the existing programme somehow, without losing the flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,347 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 11 hours ago, Holko said: (he wouldn't put another composer's cue on his album, that's 100%) Return of the Jedi. Holko and A. A. Ron 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted June 21, 2018 Author Share Posted June 21, 2018 I just got my shipping notice! It says it shipped out of Tennessee? I thought their warehouse was in California? Says it'll be here Tuesday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,072 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 I just listened to the key tracks of the new release. The sound is indeed better balanced and more detailed, probably because of the new mix. I wouldn't call it top-notch though compared to the best orchestral recordings of the era. The End Cast cue is a great disappointment with its long fade-out - Exit Music is much more enjoyable and a fitting conclusion. It's interesting to hear the "true" Summer's Over cue, with its serene guitar solo. Anybody knows who did the arrangement of Vivaldi's guitar concerto - was it JW? Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,347 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: It's clearly an arrangement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,072 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 I do say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted June 21, 2018 Author Share Posted June 21, 2018 I don't know if Williams did the arrangement himself or one of the orchestrators did, but the liner notes do say it was a pre-planned by Rydell and Williams before filming began Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,347 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 15 minutes ago, Jay said: It says it shipped out of Tennessee? I thought their warehouse was in California? I think I remember someone on FSM talking about them getting an/some extra location with the Naxos deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,072 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 I find it very unrealistic that someone would play Vivaldi in cowboy-land, as his music fell into obscurity after the Baroque era and was virtually unknown until re-discovered in the 1920s. Good job, JW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted June 21, 2018 Author Share Posted June 21, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,072 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 16 hours ago, phbart said: It sounds cleaner, somewhat less processed (heavy processing is the only way, I believe, the Jaws recordings can be decently presented). How do you think the complete Jaws release sounds heavily processed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phbart 609 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 I don't know, actually. It just sounds like that to me. At least, to me, it doesn't sound as "natural" as the other two 3 channels mono I mentioned before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Still waiting on a shipping notice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryant Burnette 654 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted June 22, 2018 Author Share Posted June 22, 2018 That's weird; I didn't even order it until Wednesday and already got mine Disco Stu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 They always ship to Jason in priority. That's favoristism. 😋 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 36 minutes ago, Bespin said: They always ship to Jason in priority. That's favoristism. 😋 It wouldn't be a new Williams-Matessino release without someone making this joke!! I'm just glad it wasn't me this time 😏 I double-checked and I placed my order 20 minutes after it went up! Bespin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 I always order my new items with unsold old crap CDs... so I know at least why my orders take an eternity to get shipped. "Not with my Wife... vol. 2 ?" Okay... In the background somewhere at the right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,223 Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 I ordered it on Tuesday, and I have not gotten a shipping notice yet. What the heck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,347 Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 11 minutes ago, JohnnyD said: I ordered it on Tuesday, and I have not gotten a shipping notice yet. What the heck? It's Varese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. A. Ron 1,742 Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 1 hour ago, JohnnyD said: I ordered it on Tuesday, and I have not gotten a shipping notice yet. What the heck? I ordered it on Monday and haven't gotten a shipping notice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,223 Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 What is going on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted June 23, 2018 Author Share Posted June 23, 2018 I dunno. Maybe Varese fulfills orders in a random order? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 They do it alphabetically, starting with "LeBlanc". 😋 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,355 Posted June 23, 2018 Author Share Posted June 23, 2018 Well the shipping says I won't have it until Tuesday. Surely people closer to Tennessee or Cali will have it before then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thx99 1,740 Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 I am "unfulfilled" and will be so until the CD arrives!!! Amer and Bespin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockdown 238 Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 I ordered The Cowboys and Small Soldiers and I didn't get Small Soldiers :( Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,714 Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 Well Varese is sure taking its sweet time to send these out. I ordered on Tuesday and order status is still unfulfilled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,347 Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Incanus said: Well Varese is sure taking its sweet time to send these out. I ordered on Tuesday and order status is still unfulfilled. Well, they said the week of the 18th, so they have about 9 hours left to ship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Demondm810 399 Posted June 23, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 23, 2018 Yaaaaay thx99, Amer and Josh500 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,223 Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 50 minutes ago, Incanus said: Well Varese is sure taking its sweet time to send these out. I ordered on Tuesday and order status is still unfulfilled. I ordered it on the 19th, and it was fulfilled on the 20th for pre-shipment. Since then, there has been no change in the status of shipment. I still have not gotten a shipping confirmation yet. I've never seen this before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtw42 61 Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 I ordered on Monday - still showing unfulfilled. 😒 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demondm810 399 Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 Wow. I never paid much attention to this score previously. This version is like lightning in my brain. What an unbelievable masterpiece. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Hilary Bray 235 Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 If you guys Stateside are having problems with orders arriving, I guess in Britain we'll get it sometime next year? aj_vader 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 Got mine today. Coolio. Bespin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 Please dont say stupid phrases like coolio! aj_vader 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,072 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 Maybe he just got the new Coolio album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 Dumb rapper! Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 8 hours ago, Stefancos said: Please dont say stupid phrases like coolio! There's a rapper that's been on my mind, all the time. Cool Cool Coolio! He don't even know my name, but I think he likes me just the... No, now it's weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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