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John Williams' Magnum Opus


tmarps

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5 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Taken as one entry? Yeah, they’re not homogenous enough for that.

 

But taken as a single body of work? Certainly.

Ops, I meant as a single body of work.

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Easily the Star Wars saga as a whole. If that one has to be excluded in order to allow for single scores only, maybe I'd say A.I. .

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27 minutes ago, crocodile said:

Back to the Future would be it, methinks.

 

Karol

 

The theme's iconic, but like The Legend of Zelda, I'd say that's about the most noteworthy part about it. Not his best all-around work.

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Just now, Nick Parker said:

 

The theme's iconic, but like The Legend of Zelda, I'd say that's about the most noteworthy part about it. Not his best all-around work.

OK fine. Star Trek: The Motion Picture then!

 

Karol

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In all seriousness, I think there would be only one film to come out on top...and what a devilishly towering achievement it is!

 

Karol

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Towering Inferno's really cool, but there's a lot more that would qualify better as his magnum opus, don't you agree?

5 minutes ago, crocodile said:

In all seriousness, I think there would be only one film to come out on top...and what a devilishly towering achievement it is!

 

Karol

 

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2 minutes ago, Nick Parker said:

 

Towering Inferno's really cool, but there's a lot more that would qualify better as his magnum opus, don't you agree?

 

I have a hipster reputation to maintain!

 

Karol - who has never even heard The Towering Inferno

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When I hear the term 'magnum opus', I think of scores like:

 

The Empire Strikes Back

E.T.

The Philosopher's Stone

A.I.

The Lost World

Close Encounters

Conan the Barbarian

QB VII

The Wind and the Lion

Lionheart

 

Massive, long-running orchestral scores that are full of diverse themes, emotions and allow you to enter another world. Therefore especially Empire and Conan somehow epitomize this term, in my opinion.

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5 minutes ago, Brundlefly said:

When I hear the term 'magnum opus', I think of scores like:

 

The Empire Strikes Back

E.T.

The Philosopher's Stone

A.I.

The Lost World

Close Encounters

Conan the Barbarian

QB VII

The Wind and the Lion

Lionheart

 

Massive, long-running orchestral scores that are full of diverse themes, emotions and allow you to enter another world. Therefore especially Empire and Conan somehow epitomize this term, in my opinion.

 

5577_8b1e_480.gif

 

Karol

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9 hours ago, Brundlefly said:

Massive, long-running orchestral scores that are full of diverse themes, emotions and allow you to enter another world. Therefore especially Empire and Conan somehow epitomize this term, in my opinion.

 

I agree with this sentiment. Again, it's easy to conflate 'personal favourites' and 'magnum opus', but it's really two different things. There's still some subjectivity involved in assessing someone's magnum opus, of course, but it's a much smaller selection of titles to reasonably choose from.

 

But it's sometimes difficult to justify one's own assessment of such things. I've experienced the same thing with David Fincher, for example. I happen to think his magnum opus is his debut film, ALIEN 3, but Fincher would not agree. Nor would most other people, since there are cornerstone movies like FIGHT CLUB and SEVEN to deal with. So I have to be prepared to have some pretty darn good arguments to justify why I think so. The burden is on me. It's a much higher bar to pass than just 'personal favourites' (where pretty much anything goes).

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A 3h long Star Wars Symphony composed, conducted, and arranged by John Williams would be great.

 

I watched Star Wars '77 and listened to the score again after seeing this thread, just to refresh myself and really focus on its use in the film, and I have no doubt that it's the magnum opus of John Williams. Others here are saying Star Wars as a whole, yes absolutely, but even individually SW '77 is the one.

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57 minutes ago, Jerry said:

A 3h long Star Wars Symphony composed, conducted, and arranged by John Williams would be great.

 

There was a "Star Wars Symphony". It was called "Star Wars: In Concert" and was heavily based on the aforementioned "Star Wars: A Musical Journey" DVD, but it only featured music from the sextet, having been concieved of and performed before the sequel trilogy was ever in sight.

 

It wasn't that long, though: probably 90-minutes with intermission and encore, so even if Williams were to add material from the sequel trilogy (and Adventures of Han) to it or even his new Han/Leia suite - which I think would be apt - it'll probably only be around two hours.

 

I doubt it'll happen, though. It'll probably require releasing a follow-up to the "Musical Journey" DVD. Especially since there haven't been music videos (which is the format of the DVD and the concert) released with Williams work on the sequels.

 

We'll probably just be left with an updated version of Williams' "Star Wars Suite." Oh well...

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Williams specialises in writing for full orchestra - bombastically or not, that is his forte. He knows the ins and outs of every instrument, and therefore his Magnum Opus is most likely going to be a mighty orchestral work like Empire, rather than something like The Post - because mighty orchestral is what John williams is best at doing. The sound he produces with a full orchestra is synonymous with himself, and he knows that. Which is why so many of his scores take advantage of the full orchestra.

 

Also Orchestras are cool.

On 6/27/2018 at 11:20 PM, Brundlefly said:

Massive, long-running orchestral scores that are full of diverse themes, emotions and allow you to enter another world. Therefore especially Empire and Conan somehow epitomize this term, in my opinion.

 

 

 

Williams specialises in writing for full orchestra - bombastically or not, that is his forte. He knows the ins and outs of every instrument, and therefore his Magnum Opus is most likely going to be a mighty orchestral work like Empire, rather than something like The Post - because mighty orchestral is what John williams is best at doing. The sound he produces with a full orchestra is synonymous with himself, and he knows that. Which is why so many of his scores take advantage of the full orchestra.

 

Also Orchestras are cool.

So that went wrong..

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Bigger scores like Star Wars, Indy or Harry Potter tend to result in a wider range of musical styles. Something like The Post is like the same sounding shit for 40 minutes.

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For what is worth, there was an interview with JW from 2002 or 2003 where he was asked "What is the work you'd like to be remembered for?", to which he replied something like "Probably Star Wars, but E.T. would mean even more."

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On 6/26/2018 at 7:22 PM, tmarps said:

 

I've never even begun to listen to the score. I've listened to a suite once and admired that. Should I listen to the score? Please don't everyone swear at me at once. I have never seen the film though 😕 - score first or film?

On 6/26/2018 at 7:22 PM, Jay said:

Watch the film, then check out the score

<shameless plug>

Then listen to my podcast.

</shameless plus>

 

 

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Clearly, it’s the Star Wars saga as a whole, for better or worse.

 

If I had to pick just one, though, I would argue Empire as well. To me, that score ticks all the objective criteria for a magnum opus because it’s where he first found that full-bodied, colorful action voice for which he would become best known.

 

A New Hope is full of those temp quotes and consciously classical idioms. It might be sacrilege, but to me it’s the least Star Warsian of all the Star Wars scores. Even looking beyond the obvious temp stuff like Dune Sea/Rite of Spring and Rebel Blockade Runner/Mars, you can tell Williams was drawing on the familiar everywhere in that score. When I hear Leia’s theme, I hear Tchaikovsky. When I hear the imperial theme, I hear Stravinsky.

 

But when I hear The Asteroid Field, I hear John Williams. Pure, unadulterated Williams. Same with Han and the Princess, and Hyperspace, and the medical frigate Finale. By comparison, even ANH material like Here They Come or the Battle of Yavin—impactful though they may have been—feel like mere prototypes for the kind of multi-layered writing he would do in Empire.

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21 minutes ago, aviazn said:

Clearly, it’s the Star Wars saga as a whole, for better or worse.

 

If I had to pick just one, though, I would argue Empire as well. To me, that score ticks all the objective criteria for a magnum opus because it’s where he first found that full-bodied, colorful action voice for which he would become best known.

 

A New Hope is full of those temp quotes and consciously classical idioms. It might be sacrilege, but to me it’s the least Star Warsian of all the Star Wars scores. Even looking beyond the obvious temp stuff like Dune Sea/Rite of Spring and Rebel Blockade Runner/Mars, you can tell Williams was drawing on the familiar everywhere in that score. When I hear Leia’s theme, I hear Tchaikovsky. When I hear the imperial theme, I hear Stravinsky.

 

But when I hear The Asteroid Field, I hear John Williams. Pure, unadulterated Williams. Same with Han and the Princess, and Hyperspace, and the medical frigate Finale. By comparison, even ANH material like Here They Come or the Battle of Yavin—impactful though they may have been—feel like mere prototypes for the kind of multi-layered writing he would do in Empire.

 

When I listen to Star Wars, I hear a fascinating, mystical amalgamation of many musical traditions from the 18th century to the 20th, from many places around the world, as interpreted and reformed through the particular and idiosyncratic lens of one excellent American composer. Star Wars as we know it could have only been written by someone with the experiences Williams had through his decades as a pianist, arranger, film, and then blooming concert composer, and is a product of its time in the most beautiful and profound of ways.

 

When I listen to Empire Strikes Back, I hear a great film score.

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On 6/26/2018 at 2:11 PM, Bespin said:

For me it's Star Wars, the 1977 movie. So many themes, so many different ambiances.

 

But it's because I was born in 1974.

 

Ask someone a little bit older than me, they will maybe answer Close Encounters or Jaws.... ask people a little bit younger, they will answer E.T. 😉

 

Star Wars original Trilogy, Close Encounters, Jaws, E.T.... that's pretty much that!

 

The 1975-1983 period, that's definitely a peak in JW's career.

Im 14 years older but I still believe E.T. is his finest work but Star Wars is his single most important work. It is certainly the most complete listening experience of that franchise bar none. None of the others are quite as good, not even the beloved ESB because of its many skipping points.

On 6/26/2018 at 2:50 PM, Nick Parker said:

 

2001-2005!

 

 

No, just stop. And please let me be blunt A.I. isn't worthy of consideration. 

On 6/27/2018 at 1:05 PM, El Jefe said:

Superman.

This too is true. Its among my 3 favorite JW scores

 

On 6/27/2018 at 4:57 PM, crocodile said:

I have a hipster reputation to maintain!

 

Karol - who has never even heard The Towering Inferno

You should be ashamed. On the other hand you are probably not worthy.

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34 minutes ago, JoeinAR said:

No, just stop. And please let me be blunt A.I. isn't worthy of consideration. 

 

:lol: Even if you didn't like it, you can see its merit and quality, yeah?

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9 hours ago, Nick Parker said:

 

:lol: Even if you didn't like it, you can see its merit and quality, yeah?

No. Its a dust collecting score and among to the worst SS films. It is absolutely one of the worst acted.

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On 6/29/2018 at 8:08 AM, Nick Parker said:

 

When I listen to Star Wars, I hear a fascinating, mystical amalgamation of many musical traditions from the 18th century to the 20th, from many places around the world, as interpreted and reformed through the particular and idiosyncratic lens of one excellent American composer. Star Wars as we know it could have only been written by someone with the experiences Williams had through his decades as a pianist, arranger, film, and then blooming concert composer, and is a product of its time in the most beautiful and profound of ways.

 

When I listen to Empire Strikes Back, I hear a great film score.

I hear all that in Empire, too!

 

1 hour ago, JoeinAR said:

No. Its a dust collecting score and among to the worst SS films. It is absolutely one of the worst acted.

The film is hit and mostly miss.  The score is profound.  You hear John's personal voice very clearly, and I love it for that.

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Just now, Jurassic Shark said:

 

No, that's Josh Groban.

 

:sarcasm:

 

I love Josh Groban... since he recorded two duets with Charles Aznavour.

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I'll say it, I thought the Josh Groban joke was pretty funny.

 

Also...

 

 

Dust collecting? Surely you jest. And again, even if you think it's the most boring score on the planet, aren't there other qualifying criteria you can at least appreciate?

Even if I hated AI, I'd still think it was great music.

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Joey's haughty, rude, absurd posts, along with Hornist's drink fueled rants, are what chiefly drag things down here lately.  In all I suppose that's not so bad though. 

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1 hour ago, TGP said:

Joey's haughty, rude, absurd posts, along with Hornist's drink fueled rants, are what chiefly drag things down here lately.  In all I suppose that's not so bad though. 

No worse than your constant depression of late Gray. My posts on JW however are insightful and spot on. JOHN is great but not all of his music is.  

 

Btw Star Wars is better than ESB. it really is. Sorry if that is absurd or rude. Not really

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14 minutes ago, JoeinAR said:

Btw Star Wars is better than ESB. it really is. Sorry if that is absurd or rude. Not really

 

Its the score that introduced The Force (well, Ben Kenobi's) theme. 

 

'nough said.

 

:drops mic:

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58 minutes ago, JoeinAR said:

No worse than your constant depression of late Gray. My posts on JW however are insightful and spot on. JOHN is great but not all of his music is.  

 

You have indeed been rather rude lately, more than usual.  Why just a few posts above you were quite dismissive of Karol simply because he hasn't heard a score you like.  It shouldn't surprise you that it brings people down a bit - and if I were indeed genuinely depressed, would complaining about its effect on forum atmosphere (or liking such a post to continue a petty personal vendetta, as Jurassic Shark has done) be a humane and sensitive way to react to that?  Seems quite cruel and reprehensible actually.

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1 hour ago, TGP said:

You have indeed been rather rude lately, more than usual.  Why just a few posts above you were quite dismissive of Karol simply because he hasn't heard a score you like.  It shouldn't surprise you that it brings people down a bit

 

Yes!

 

We should all feel comfortable sharing our own opinions of music, but there's no reason to look down on others for not liking the same music you do, or not having heard all the same music you have.

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