Score 770 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 3 hours ago, Fabulin said: Instead: the ESB score prompted me some time ago to think of a certain way of assessing the density of greatness in compositions. First, let us set the musical sensor to "John Williams at the peak of his career", which is reasonably in the 80s; then, let us divide the score into equal intervals of such length that a great musical moment is present in all of them. Then, let us count these intervals: for The ESB, the number is easily over 240 in the two-hour long score. Every 30 seconds we get something wonderful. The Lord of The Rings concert contains maybe 120. So, finally it has been demonstrated beyond any possible doubt that ESB is twice as great as The Lord of the Rings concert (240 great musical moments against 120). This closes a lot of long-standing debates! Dixon Hill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,903 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 6 hours ago, Fabulin said: If there were two music CDs worth fighting for even at the streets of a falling Constantinople, they would contain The Empire Strikes Back. Not as clumsy or random as it's only real competitor—the temp-track heavy Star Wars—and within the saga, a long time before the master would finally get tired of it all in 2002, after a renaissance of TPM (pun intended).It is a refined score, very mature in sound. The moment one hears Leia's Theme, then a storm as Han walks out and the Han & The Princess Theme starts playing... The Hoth theme, especially right before the battle, with tubas like the biblical 7 Trumpets The Imperial March Asteroid Field When Yoda's Theme can be heard sounding with childlike innocence and playfulness around The Cloud City The drama in the freezing chamber The bottleneck buildup during the escape from Cloud City resolved in the greatest musical payoff of them all:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjGa5Vj7B7I&feature=youtu.be&t=1m1s The only time in the saga a certain fragment of the title fanfare is played outisde of the main title... here as a serene trumpet solo... Among many others. If I were to mention all of them, I should entertain you with an oration as long as The Empire Strikes Back itself (to paraphrase Vivien Leigh's Oscar speech) Instead: the ESB score prompted me some time ago to think of a certain way of assessing the density of greatness in compositions. First, let us set the musical sensor to "John Williams at the peak of his career", which is reasonably in the 80s; then, let us divide the score into equal intervals of such length that a great musical moment is present in all of them. Then, let us count these intervals: for The ESB, the number is easily over 240 in the two-hour long score. Every 30 seconds we get something wonderful. The Lord of The Rings concert contains maybe 120. E.T., Jurassic Park, Philosopher's Stone and so on would result in two-digit numbers. If someone doesn't like the possible bugs of "2 minutes of silence among 2 hours of greatness reduces by two or by four", then we can always give each score two or three Millionaire-style "Lifelines" that we take out of consideration. The total supremacy of ESB score still will stand. P.S. The fact that so many comments choose some weird other score as the best one remind me of the 53rd oscars. 🙄 P.P.S. And as for John Williams wanting to be remembered for E.T... it is more about a "civil" warmth of the film resonating with his personality better than his "not very memorable" Star Wars scores. John Williams is just not an "Asteroid field" personality. Do you notice the trend that the most personal works of the great artists are very rarely greater than their magna opera? I would just add, ESB is Star Wars at its peak in every way and that is saying alot. The best directing, best screenplay, best acting, best pacing, well maybe not best special effects but certainly amazing effects for its pre-CGI time, and best score. Then add to that this was when JW was hitting home run after home run, for this to be the best score really says alot. I have come to learn that JW scores usually exceed the quality of the film that inspired them and this probably applies to the entire Star Wars saga. BUT it is difficult to assert your algorithm on other great movie+score combos - it just doesn't work that way. I can't quantify Wagner as greater than Mozart because he had more memorable themes per minute. One must account for extramusical considerations such as context (what was happening at the time), influence to posterity, etc. I do believe ESB to be the superior musical experience to LOTR but can't say that is based on objective facts. It is just my opinion...and that of many others who grew up with those scores being deeply affected by it. I am listening to tadlow's Ben Hur re-recording of Miklos Rozsa's score and find it so beautiful and such an exceptional score but the historical/biblical epic is also a crowded field full of wonderful contributions from Elmer Bernstein, Alfred Newman, other Miklos Rozsa scores, Franz Waxman, even Stravinsky dabbled in this genre.* All of these are very unique entries into a distinctive genre so you can't really say Stravinsky failed compared to Rozsa because Rozsa had more themes per minute. * The Song of Bernadette was a 1943 film that Stravinsky provided a score to but it was rejected and replaced by Alfred Newman. The rejected material went into Stravinsky's Symphony in Three Movements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,343 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 Empire Strikes Back also features the best use of the Imperial March! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,510 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,903 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 The Empire Strikes Back features the best use of Rey's Theme too. Fabulin and Kasey Kockroach 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,343 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 It's easy to get The Last Jedi confused with Empire Strikes Back, since they're the same movie. Except that the former has a hotter female lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellaeon 593 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 Oh. Oh no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,343 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 Yawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 You know, when I was a teenager, Leia in a sweater vest was far more appealing to me than Leia in the metal bikini. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Illustrious Jerry 3,356 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 Rey is quite fetching. Did I just say that? Kasey Kockroach 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 She is. Kasey Kockroach 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 She wasn't that appealing to me in The Force Awakens--she looks like some elven fantasy tomboy warrior--but in The Last Jedi I was...illuminated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,499 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 Watch some interviews and you'll question everything you've ever known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,030 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 She's too giggly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,343 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: She's too giggly. Fuck you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,030 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 But still better than BDH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,343 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 Just now, Jurassic Shark said: But still better than BDH. I just went through Rainbow Ride and finally had enough stars to beat the damn game, I'm in no mood for your bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 52 minutes ago, Holko said: Watch some interviews and you'll question everything you've ever known. What are you saying? 40 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: But still better than BDH. Yes! 39 minutes ago, kaseykockroach said: I just went through Rainbow Ride and finally had enough stars to beat the damn game, I'm in no mood for your bullshit. Is that some kind of My Little Pony thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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