Moments when JW uses themes like they're passing by in the wind

[artguy360 1,843]

I'm not sure how else to describe these musical moments but I've recently become fascinated by moments when JW employs thematic material almost as transitional music or, to my ears, like a melody passing by in a breeze. They're usually short, very fluid, and almost like incidental background music but clearly a theme chosen on purpose. I have a few examples, to illustrate the kind of musical moment I'm talking about.

One that just struck me is the use of the Force theme in Farewell and The Trip from TFA, from 2:12 to 2:36 or so:

 

And again with the Force theme, how it kind of peaks into Escape from TLJ as a bridge between transitional music from 6:50 onward:

 

 

I wonder if anyone else has any other examples or shares my love for these brief snippets of music.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,344]

I'm fascinated when John Williams BREAKS wind! 

[Quintus 5,399]

The horn march at the end of Journey to the Island has always been terrifically impressive in this regard. Other composers (*cough Gia cough*) are chuffed with themselves when they think up something of this quality, and they base an entire score around it, it'd be put out as their whole main theme. But John Williams thinks these little incidental moments up on the fly, and discards them like they're nothing afterwards. Because he's just always been a badass melodist like that. 

[mrbellamy 6,272]

4 hours ago, artguy360 said:

I'm not sure how else to describe these musical moments but I've recently become fascinated by moments when JW employs thematic material almost as transitional music or, to my ears, like a melody passing by in a breeze. They're usually short, very fluid, and almost like incidental background music but clearly a theme chosen on purpose. I have a few examples, to illustrate the kind of musical moment I'm talking about.

1

 

Think I know what you mean...his knack for using core themes in more supportive and "wispy" but still recognizable ways.

 

The "shanty" themes (also 2:07)

 

Anakin's Theme (also 1:03)

 

March of the Resistance

 

Imperial March

 

Hedwig's Theme

[Brundlefly 2,385]

Spilling Petrol and Finding Camp Jurassic from The Lost World have renditions of the Island's Theme which pass by every time the old park gets mentioned like brief remembrances.

[Josh500 1,615]

I've always like this track, although it doesn't get mentioned very often here. So atmospheric, and somehow threatening. 

 

The Force Theme is briefly quoted at 1:38, before the orchestra bursts into a menacing brassy fanfare at 1:46.... One of my favourite moments. Quite masterful.

 

 

[Loert 2,510]

2 hours ago, Brundlefly said:

Spilling Petrol and Finding Camp Jurassic from The Lost World have renditions of the Island's Theme which pass by every time the old park gets mentioned like brief remembrances.

 

This is the first thing that came to mind actually.

 

There is a lot of this kind of thing in Williams' action material, particularly into the 90s/00s, where he will bring in a motif for a short while.

[Jay 37,322]

I like when the Rebel Fanfare shows up as brief counterpoint to Lando's Palace theme in "Vadar Shows Up" from ESB

[karelm 2,903]

I like the music that accompanies the Orca leaving the marina framed by shark teeth.  Just like 10 seconds of moodiness until the sea shanty adventure theme comes in.

 

[Smeltington 1,436]

I just wanted to say great thread topic, and great call identifying this JW trend. It's something he does so well that I never even stopped to think about. And really nice examples in this thread so far.

[SteveMc 2,674]

2 hours ago, Josh500 said:

I've always like this track, although it doesn't get mentioned very often here. So atmospheric, and somehow threatening. 

 

The Force Theme is briefly quoted at 1:38, before the orchestra bursts into a menacing brassy fanfare at 1:46.... One of my favourite moments. Quite masterful.

 

 

3:20 to the end is really something else.  

[Josh500 1,615]

6 minutes ago, Steve McQueen said:

3:20 to the end is really something else.  

 

No longer threatening here, but I absolutely adore this moment too.

 

At 3:26 - 3:38, JW manages to express the nobility, strength, and elegance of the queen in a few seconds, before the music takes another turn. Wow. 

[artguy360 1,843]

6 hours ago, Josh500 said:

I've always like this track, although it doesn't get mentioned very often here. So atmospheric, and somehow threatening. 

 

The Force Theme is briefly quoted at 1:38, before the orchestra bursts into a menacing brassy fanfare at 1:46.... One of my favourite moments. Quite masterful.

 

 

This is exactly the kind of musical moment I'm talking about. The Force theme is almost quoted in the background, like it's trying not to draw attention to itself. Perfect example.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Raiders March in Canyon of the Crescent Moon when he gets his hat back.

 

8 hours ago, Jay said:

I like when the Rebel Fanfare shows up as brief counterpoint to Lando's Palace theme in "Vadar Shows Up" from ESB

 

*Vader

 

18 hours ago, Quintus said:

The horn march at the end of Journey to the Island has always been terrifically impressive in this regard. Other composers (*cough Gia cough*) are chuffed with themselves when they think up something of this quality, and they base an entire score around it, it'd be put out as their whole main theme. But John Williams thinks these little incidental moments up on the fly, and discards them like they're nothing afterwards. Because he's just always been a badass melodist like that. 

 

Same with Horner and Goldsmith. So many incredible one-off moments where they deliver absolute brilliance with such remarkable skill and ease. I don't think these kids can steer.

[Will 2,215]

TERRIFIC thread topic, @artguy360! I've actually noticed, and loved, this recurring element of JW's work for the last year or so. Three of my favorite examples have already been mentioned; namely, the two Force theme variations in the original post and the "Man Against Beast" bit cited by @mrbellamy. 

 

I've always thought of this moments as really "epic" and really downright poetic. I love your description of them as "passing by in the wind." For example, the Force theme near the end of "Escape" in TLJ is really so comforting and cathartic given the dramatic mix of victory, death, and destruction that had preceded it. And the thematic counterpoint in the Jaws example is just utterly sublime. Nothing else to say. 

 

JW has such an amazing ability to create seemingly effortless flow in cues that juggle multiple themes. Oftentimes, when I first listen to a score I have no idea what the themes are, and later I'm shocked to learn that certain interweaving little melodies I heard were actually distinct themes, since they'd been woven into the score so well.

 

I'm having trouble thinking of other examples of this JW trait off the top of my head right now but I'm sure there are many more. 

[Holko 9,499]

Half of the Rey's Theme mentions in TFA?

 

[artguy360 1,843]

I remember one of the first times I became aware of this JW technique. I must have listened to The Phantom Menace complete score 5 or 6 times before I noticed the subtle use of Yoda's theme at around 56 seconds into this track:

Just sublime.

I'm sure this is no mystery to any member of this forum, but I absolutely love, love, LOVE the theme used as background counterpoint to the brassy fanfare in Start Your Engines from TPM:

 

[leeallen01 2,134]

I love how he makes this feel so happy and like nothing is wrong, and then randomly slots in the Jaws theme in between moments of fun, just to remind us that the shark is always there.

 

 

 

[Bellosh 3,398]

The motif at :25-:47 of Brother of the Cruciform Sword

 

 

But let us not forget, probably the best, the fanfare at the end of  The Pit of Carkoon/Sail Barge Assault (5:02), and once again heard in the Battle of Endor III.

 

 

[Josh500 1,615]

On 7/6/2018 at 7:13 PM, leeallen01 said:

I love how he makes this feel so happy and like nothing is wrong, and then randomly slots in the Jaws theme in between moments of fun, just to remind us that the shark is always there.

 

 

 

 

Where exactly do you hear the Jaws theme? Gotta be honest, I don't hear it.

 

Unless you mean at 0:08?

[Holko 9,499]

The Hogwarts fanfare just barely trying to rear its head here, then harsh brass takes over and denies it its ending.

 

[leeallen01 2,134]

13 hours ago, Josh500 said:

 

Where exactly do you hear the Jaws theme? Gotta be honest, I don't hear it.

 

Unless you mean at 0:08?

 

 

Really? It's throughout the entire piece. He uses repeating 2 notes on different instruments constantly.

 

 

 

0:00, 0:09, 0:18, 0:33, 0:41, 0:50, 1:19, 1:23, 1:37, 1:40, 1:45, 1:53

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The Jaws theme is all over that score indeed.

[Josh500 1,615]

3 hours ago, leeallen01 said:

 

 

Really? It's throughout the entire piece. He uses repeating 2 notes on different instruments constantly.

 

 

 

0:00, 0:09, 0:18, 0:33, 0:41, 0:50, 1:19, 1:23, 1:37, 1:40, 1:45, 1:53

 

You know, two notes simply alternating anywhere, anytime doesn't automatically make it the Jaws theme. 

 

The Jaws theme is more than just two notes. It's played in low bass notes, rhythmically, in a menacing and frightening way. 

 

Here, I think it's just coincidence (except possibly the one at 0:08).

[leeallen01 2,134]

6 hours ago, Josh500 said:

 

You know, two notes simply alternating anywhere, anytime doesn't automatically make it the Jaws theme. 

 

The Jaws theme is more than just two notes. It's played in low bass notes, rhythmically, in a menacing and frightening way. 

 

Here, I think it's just coincidence (except possibly the one at 0:08).

 

Are you serious?

 

Yeah it must be coincidence that Williams uses the Jaws theme in his Jaws 2 score...

 

It doesn't have to be the exact transcription of his Jaws theme, but he is clearly using 2 notes alternating throughout that piece because he does it all over the score...because it's a Jaws score. 

 

Never thought I'd have to explain why Williams uses two note patterns throughout his Jaws score. Also the sky is blue and we breath oxygen.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

Some people should not try to explain ... you know ... music stuff.

[Chen G. 3,944]

1 hour ago, leeallen01 said:

he is clearly using 2 notes alternating throughout that piece because he does it all over the score...because it's a Jaws score. 

 

The Shark ostinato isn't just any two notes that just happen to play one after the other.

 

When you're dealing with motivic units this small (two notes) its always tricky to distinguish which are thematic and which aren't. Its like not every recurring phrase of exclamation in a script is a deliberate callback.

 

 

[Bellosh 3,398]

Can we all agree tho, of all the ones that he listed, @ the :09 mark it is in fact the Jaws theme.  

 

Only other one I can get on board with (pun intended) is maybe...maybe the :18 second one as well.

 

But :09 for sure.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Yeah it's the shark motif. A less threatening interpretation, to be sure, but, a welcome one.

[Josh500 1,615]

17 hours ago, leeallen01 said:

 

Are you serious?

 

Yeah it must be coincidence that Williams uses the Jaws theme in his Jaws 2 score...

 

It doesn't have to be the exact transcription of his Jaws theme, but he is clearly using 2 notes alternating throughout that piece because he does it all over the score...because it's a Jaws score. 

 

Never thought I'd have to explain why Williams uses two note patterns throughout his Jaws score. Also the sky is blue and we breath oxygen.

 

No.

 

By the way, it's written "breathe oxygen" not "breath oxygen." 😂 

 

 

16 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

The Shark ostinato isn't just any two notes that just happen to play one after the other.

 

When you're dealing with motivic units this small (two notes) its always tricky to distinguish which are thematic and which aren't. Its like not every recurring phrase of exclamation in a script is a deliberate callback.

 

 

 

Exactly. 

 

How dumb do you have to be to assume that every two notes (just two notes!!!) played one after another has to be the Jaws theme, just because it's the Jaws score.... Seriously.

 

According to Leeallen, apparently every trill played by the orchestra in the Jaws score has to be the Jaws theme. Bwahaha. 

[leeallen01 2,134]

Or Williams uses repetitive 2 note moments because that's how he represents the entire score. 

 

It's like talking to several equally plain brick walls.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

22 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

The Shark ostinato isn't just any two notes that just happen to play one after the other.

 

When you're dealing with motivic units this small (two notes) its always tricky to distinguish which are thematic and which aren't. Its like not every recurring phrase of exclamation in a script is a deliberate callback.

 

 

 

Agreed, but not in a Jaws score. 

 

Williams is obviously using the Jaws theme here, in various guises.

15 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

 

It's like talking to several equally plain brick walls.

 

Only on JWfan!

[Demodex 557]

On 7/7/2018 at 4:47 PM, Bellosh said:

the fanfare at the end of  The Pit of Carkoon/Sail Barge Assault (5:02), and once again heard in the Battle of Endor III.

 

It is?

[Chen G. 3,944]

It is.

 

I'm in two minds about its thematic significance, however. On the one hand, its use seems quite intentional (especially because it also appears in the original Sail Barge composition) and its even varied between statements.

 

On the other hand, the association amounts to little more than a generic, "triumphant" motif. That makes it extra baffling because both Luke's two themes, the Rebel Fanfare and Throne Room theme all carry that association, as well, and all feature in Return of the Jedi, so why have another leitmotif (if were are to assume it is one) along those lines?

 

I don't think Williams even spoke about it, and Matessino's liner notes to the special edition make no note of it whatsoever. Lehman only classifies it as an incidental, "Lydian" fanfare. Adams, however, labels it as the "Victory Fanfare" motif.

 

I dunno.

[Nick1Ø66 4,689]

On 7/5/2018 at 6:24 AM, kaseykockroach said:

I'm fascinated when John Williams BREAKS wind! 

 

As soon as I saw this thread title, before I even clicked on it, I knew this comment was inevitable.  I just wasn't expecting it to be the first comment.