The Silmarillion

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I finished the audiobook of this last week. My third "reading" full of this tome.

 

Even though is less then half the size of Tolkien's most famous work, I never seized to be amazed on how expansive it actually it. Encompassing, thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of years, or millions even. From the Music Of The Ainur and the creation of the Universe, to the start of the Fourth Age. 

 

The full narrative is nothing if not unwieldy because of this. And because of the endless array of characters, many with more than one name, locations, many with more than one name, events, and the detailed descriptions of titles, heraldry, genealogy etc etc.

 

I'm convinced there are many who slaved their way to the seeming endless passages of LOTR and emerged victorious at its final pages who attempted The Sil and just said "Fuck this".

 

There's something brilliantly evokative about this book though, like there is to Tolkien's legendarium in general. And The Silmarillion gives you more of it than any other book. 

 

In my experience it gets to a gripping bit of narrative just when you think you've had enough of another detailed description of Beleriant. 

 

Just some of my personal favs. The Music of the Ainur and their initial introduction. The coming of the Noldor to Valinor. Anything with Feanor in it. Ungòliant! The Kinslaying, the Doom of Mandos. 

Of Beren and Luthien, and in particular Huor, the Hound of Valinor, and of course Eärendil the Mariner, who out of desperation found the Undying Lands, with a Silmarillion upon his brow.

And ALL of Akallabêth! 

 

This was of course released posthumously, by Tolkien the Younger because his father seemed to have been unable to shape the narrative in a way he was happy with, and let it get the better of him.

There are inconsistencies, even if one doesn't reference any of Tolkien's other works. Taken from a variety of sources the book goes from being incredibly detailed about seemingly minor events to glossing over import stuff in chapters thag read almost like a summary.

Its a pity that the pivotal chapter of Tuor and the coming to Gondolin feels so...rushed. especially compared to similar parts like Beren and Luthien and especially Túrin Turambar. (Undoubtedly the most depressing stuff ever written by this author)

Christopher Tolkien regretted some of his editorial choices apparently, but never attempted to redo to book, which I think is unfortunate. After decades of going though his dad's notes...who knows.

 

Such flaws aside, this remains a...or THE pivotal work in Tolkien's Middle-earth mythology. 

 

Brummie actor Martin Shaw reads this, and despite his occasionally questionable pronounciation of certain names, (he pronounces Ilúvatar in a way I would have never considered, and its ICEngard, not Is-engard) he certainly has the dramatic panache for the material. I actually think he did a great job.

 

 

 

 

[Nick1Ø66 4,687]

2 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Brummie actor Martin Shaw reads this, and despite his occasionally questionable pronounciation of certain names, (he pronounces Ilúvatar in a way I would have never considered, and its ICEngard, not Is-engard) he certainly has the dramatic panache for the material. I actually think he did a great job.

 

I admit to liking the overly dramatic music that opens and closes each section. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Its slightly low rent, if you're used to film music played by an actual orchestra.....but still

 

 

[Pellaeon 593]

4 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Christopher Tolkien regretted some of his editorial choices apparently, but never attempted to redo to book, which I think is unfortunate. After decades of going though his dad's notes...who knows.

 

It has been redone, in a manner of speaking, twice. The History of Middle-earth presents all his father’s original ‘Silmarillion’ texts untampered-with. And The Children of Húrin is an attempt at providing an alternative entry point into the legendarium. So at this point it’s basically all out there, and there’s nothing left to wish for, really, other than more (attractive) repackagings like what we’re getting with The Fall of Gondolin.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

That's not quite the same thing as a redone The Silmarillion though.

[Faleel 5,331]

Didn't he have a writer assist him in extrapolating a new ending of the Hurin story?

[Pellaeon 593]

39 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

That's not quite the same thing as a redone The Silmarillion though.

 

Who would accept a redone Silmarillion, though, at this point? What purpose would it serve? Now we have the father’s actual texts, everything else is fanfic.

 

1 minute ago, Falafel said:

Didn't he have a writer assist him in extrapolating a new ending of the Hurin story?

 

No, and I can’t guess what you’re thinking of.

[Faleel 5,331]

I was thinking of Guy Kay.

 

https://www.quora.com/To-what-extent-did-Guy-Gavriel-Kay-contribute-to-the-editing-of-The-Silmarillion

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

48 minutes ago, Pellaeon said:

 

Who would accept a redone Silmarillion, though, at this point? What purpose would it serve? Now we have the father’s actual texts, everything else is fanfic.

 

 

No, and I can’t guess what you’re thinking of.

 

A scholarly text dissecting a persons writings is a completely different thing than a novel. Even released posthumously. Why should i spend time on Christopher Tolkien countless History Of Middle-earth writings while I could have had a revised Silmarillion instead?

[Nick1Ø66 4,687]

Indeed.

 

I actually think a revised Silmarillion is a pretty good idea...if not inevitable.  Though I have no idea who would do it.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

@Incanus!

[Pellaeon 593]

51 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

A scholarly text dissecting a persons writings is a completely different thing than a novel.

 

Oh, I don’t see it the same way. It’s more like a Complete Recordings with liner notes. You can just listen to the treasure trove of music, and easily ignore the liner notes. But, I’ve admittedly been obsessed with the HoMe series since the early 90s (The Book of Lost Tales is my favorite book of all time), so, perhaps I lack perspective. I’ve always been very frustrated that people dismiss HoMe as “notes,” so, if repackaging them into something more recognizable as novels can get them a wider audience, I guess I’m all for it.

[Faleel 5,331]

1 hour ago, Stefancos said:

 

A scholarly text dissecting a persons writings is a completely different thing than a novel. Even released posthumously. Why should i spend time on Christopher Tolkien countless History Of Middle-earth writings while I could have had a revised Silmarillion instead?

No Tevildo prince of Cats for one

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I see The Fall Of Gondolin is coming out end of the month. Thats good news because its both the most pivotal and underwhelming part of The Sil, imo.

[Pellaeon 593]

It’s really great, man. You’ll love it.

[Holko 9,499]

The Book of Lost Tales version of it is fantastic. The siege could almost be a movie script.

[Nick1Ø66 4,687]

3 hours ago, Holko said:

The Book of Lost Tales version of it is fantastic. The siege could almost be a movie script.

 

Yeah. Funny how that worked.

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

So when is PJ gonna film The Silmarillion? It would make a great ten part saga.

[Quintus 5,399]

19 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Its slightly low rent, if you're used to film music played by an actual orchestra.....but still

 

 

 

Can't be as bad as those old pipe intros outros on the Hobbit tapes.

[Nick1Ø66 4,687]

Much better! It actually has kind of a Jaws thing going on.

 

 

 

[Quintus 5,399]

That's scene setting!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It's quite effective yes.

[fommes 153]

What's the edition to get for The Silmarillion?

[Incanus 5,713]

I'd suggest the Ted Nasmith illustrated edition.

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

He's good.

 

[Nick1Ø66 4,687]

The Ted Nasmith edition is, like the Alan Lee edition of LOTR, beautiful. But also like the Lee edition, it's for flipping through, admiring the art, and then displaying on your shelf.

 

By all means, get it. But also get yourself a nice paperback if you want to actually read it.

[Holko 9,499]

What? Paperbacks bend, tear, break and all that. A nice sturdy hardcover is always nicer if you want to read something more than once.

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

Never mind Nick - he's old and frail so he prefers paperbacks.

[Nick1Ø66 4,687]

 

1 minute ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Never mind Nick - he's old and frail so he prefers paperbacks.

 

Actually I use a Kindle, Grandpa.

 

Not being much of a reader, I know you have no use for one!

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

I guess the Kindle now is even lighter than a paperback!

[Nick1Ø66 4,687]

12 minutes ago, Holko said:

What? Paperbacks bend, tear, break and all that. A nice sturdy hardcover is always nicer if you want to read something more than once.

 

Very true. But books like the Nasmith Silmarillion (which isn't a standard sized hardcover) aren't really designed for comfortable reading...it's oversized, glossy, has a slip cover you don't want to damage, and is better suited for skimming. Don't get me wrong it's beautiful which I is why I bought it....but it's not for reading (at least not how I read books).  

 

 

[Holko 9,499]

Oh, here the Nasmith Silmarillion hardcover is the same size as all other Tolkiens except HoME which is a different publisher and paperback only, I guess because of the already high enough costs and relatively low expected profits.

 

Thinking about how if you'd buy a book in paperback, you might as well just buy it as an ebook, I finally installed KIndle on my tablet. Will have to be careful not to get caried away with 1-click ordering and instant arrival, though.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I have deep wells of affection for my beaten all to hell paperback movie tie in editions of LOTR

[Nick1Ø66 4,687]

50 minutes ago, Holko said:

Oh, here the Nasmith Silmarillion hardcover is the same size as all other Tolkiens except HoME which is a different publisher and paperback only, I guess because of the already high enough costs and relatively low expected profits.

 

Thinking about how if you'd buy a book in paperback, you might as well just buy it as an ebook, I finally installed KIndle on my tablet. Will have to be careful not to get caried away with 1-click ordering and instant arrival, though.

 

Yeah. I've always been one to love displaying all my books on a gigantic wall shelf, but then when I lived in a country for a while that had no English language book store (or even Amazon store), I learned to love the Kindle. I get and share the love of the feel of an actual book in my hand, but for convenience sake (e.g. travel), the Kindle is awesome.

 

But Tolkien is special, of course, and I've got multiple editions lying around...some of which, like @Disco Stu I have quite a lot of affection for.

 

Though you're quite right, The History of Middle-Earth definitely deserves better than the dated paperback treatment its gotten thus far.

[Holko 9,499]

19 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

paperback movie tie in editions

 

Filthy Normie! Mainstream sellout!

This is a Tolkien shelf:

Tales (contains Roverandom, Farmer Giles of Ham, Smith of Wootton Major and Leaf by Niggle), facsimile FE of the Hobbit, Beowulf, Nasmith Silmarillion, Children of Húrin, Lee Beren and Lúthien (I know it should be before CoH, sorry), new translation of Hobbit, slightly revised LotR, Unfinished Tales, Book of Lost Tales I-II.

 

And speaking of great unwieldy hardcovers, I do have great love for my B&N Leatherbound Complete Sherlock Holmes:

 

2 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

The History of Middle-Earth definitely deserves better than the dated paperback treatment its gotten thus far.

I don't think the Hung versions will be reprinted in hardcover soon, they'll have to all come out first which will take years. But I do plan on someday getting the 3-colume English hardcover version if it'll still be in print. And get the deluxe/special English hardcovers to have the original text of everything.

 

But with all this Tolkien talk I just noticed Chen disappeared.

[Nick1Ø66 4,687]

Yeah, where is @Chen G.?  

[Holko 9,499]

I now see he last commented on the 3rd, maybe he's just on vacation or something.

[Nick1Ø66 4,687]

I hope he didn't let @Disco Stu bully him off the site!

[Pellaeon 593]

This to me is the “real” Silmarillion (and the matching Unfinished Tales for good measure) — the original Houghton Mifflin US editions. (The original UK editions were different.)

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

Nice, but I prefer the ones from Dunder Mifflin. 

[Chen G. 3,943]

On 8/18/2018 at 7:53 PM, Nick1066 said:

Yeah, where is @Chen G.?  

On 8/18/2018 at 7:59 PM, Nick1066 said:

I hope he didn't let @Disco Stu bully him off the site!

 

Still here.

 

Been busy, is all, and probably will be for the near month or two. But still lurking.

[Glóin the Dark 1,218]

On 8/17/2018 at 10:14 AM, Jurassic Shark said:

So when is PJ gonna film The Silmarillion? It would make a great ten part saga.

 

Peter Jackson isn't going to film The Silmarillion. I am.

[Faleel 5,331]

On 8/17/2018 at 6:27 AM, Quintus said:

 

Can't be as bad as those old pipe intros outros on the Hobbit tapes.

Which ones are you referring to?

[Bofur01 245]

I reckon the ones on the BBC adaptation...

[Faleel 5,331]

Ah, the ones with the Krummhorn music?

 

[Bofur01 245]

That's what I assumed Quint meant, yeah

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The Rob Inglis version i have has dodgy Celtic shit.

[Quintus 5,399]

14 hours ago, Falafel said:

Ah, the ones with the Krummhorn music?

 

 

Oh god, make it stop.

[Faleel 5,331]

 

[Chen G. 3,943]

Hey, that Krumhorn sounds like the "bagpipe"-y thing from the Ironfoot rendition of the Extended Edition documentary credits music.

 

 

Makes sense, too: the ensemble which plays that (The Fellowship) uses the instrument.