Dixon Hill 4,233 Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 2 hours ago, Arpy said: Will no one defend JW on JWFan? Defend him against what? Against nonsensical deification which cheapens his legacy rather than enriches it? A few of us are trying to defend against that if you look again. Kasey Kockroach 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,510 Posted October 5, 2018 Author Share Posted October 5, 2018 . Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 18 minutes ago, Quintus said: @Bespin why aren't you attending the London meet? First, I'm not really a fan of live concerts... Two, it's in London and I live in Canada... it's far from me, I don't even go in Boston to see him! I never saw an Aznavour concert outside Montreal either. I love concerts... with my beer Champagne, in my living room, on my TV screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loert 2,510 Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 Until somebody defines precisely what... Quote unmatched? (overall skillset) means, then this thread is going nowhere. Good luck everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,033 Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 On 10/5/2018 at 7:39 PM, Bespin said: First, I'm not really a fan of live concerts... Two, it's in London and I live in Canada... it's far from me, I don't even go in Boston to see him! Didn't you go to Morocco recently? I don't think it takes more time to get to London. And they have beer there too, but in pints... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: Didn't you go to Morocco recently? I don't think it takes more time to get to London. And they have beer there to, but in pints... I'm not a fan of crowds too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,343 Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 It's okay to admit The Post is boring, guys. John Williams won't get mad, I promise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,033 Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 19 minutes ago, Bespin said: I'm not a fan of crowds too... Face your fears. That's the only way to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 6 hours ago, TGP said: Defend him against what? Against nonsensical deification which cheapens his legacy rather than enriches it? A few of us are trying to defend against that if you look again. Stop being such a sourpuss! Joni Wiljami 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Strictly within the confines of film music, John Williams is unmatched today. Even Morricone, who is a great idiosyncratic composer, doesn't have the command of the full orchestral pallete on the level Williams does. Jurassic Shark and SteveMc 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,507 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 On 10/5/2018 at 6:50 PM, Jurassic Shark said: ...they have beer there to, but in pints... It comes in pints?! 1 hour ago, Quintus said: Strictly within the confines of film music, John Williams is unmatched today. Even Morricone, who is a great idiosyncratic composer, doesn't have the command of the full orchestral pallete on the level Williams does. Maybe he does, Lee, but maybe Morricone chooses to use his "pallete", in a different way? I'm sure that Morricone has as much technical, theoretical, and compositional skill, as JW, and I'm sure that, if he wanted to, he could compose like JW - and vice versa. It just that he (for what ever reason) chooses not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,033 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 33 minutes ago, Richard said: It comes in pints?! Yeah, or was it pants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,319 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Some quality posts in this thread! On 10/4/2018 at 11:42 PM, kaseykockroach said: So with Jaws, Star Wars, Close Encounters and such, he had a generous amount of opportunities to further develop his talents. Right person at the right place at the right time sort of thing. There are composers equally or arguably even more talented than him that simply never got those ideal opportunities (or at least not as regularly). On 10/5/2018 at 2:21 AM, artguy360 said: one unique aspect of JW's musical background that seems to have a really positive impact on his orchestral writing is his jazz background. He is able to achieve a sense of flow in his orchestral music that makes it all very enjoyable to listen to, like all of the music is leaning forward just a bit. On 10/5/2018 at 3:35 AM, mrbellamy said: I think he did get pretty lucky running into Spielberg who is more crowdpleasing than most, more musically-minded than most, more loyal to his collaborators than most, more prolific than most. A lot of composers get teamed up with great directors who eventually fall short one way or another. They lose favor and can't come back from a major flop or they take 5-10 years to make a movie. Spielberg turned out to be an ideal partner but on the other hand, developing a creative relationship like theirs does take more than luck. Kasey Kockroach and Fabulin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 On 10/4/2018 at 10:42 PM, kaseykockroach said: There are composers equally or arguably even more talented than him that simply never got those ideal opportunities (or at least not as regularly). Stop the madness. John worked his ass off and deserves the title of America's Greatest Living Composer. If others didn't make it they didn't do the work to make it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,319 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Completely disagree. JW is extremely talented and IS the world's greatest living composer, but he unquestionably was given great opportunities many great composers never get SteveMc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,343 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Or the films they scored bombed. Unlucky Bastard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,319 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 It's the combination of talent and the massive success of the films that made JW a household name. One or the other wouldn't have done it. Jerry Goldsmith and James Horner are great composers too, but the average joe blow on the street doesn't know who they are. Christopher Nolan's films or The Matrix or any other number of stuff are household name movies but joe blow doesn't know who their composers are A huge portion of the population is both familiar with Spielberg's films, Star Wars films, and/or Harry Potters films, AND knows John Williams scored them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 9 hours ago, Quintus said: Strictly within the confines of film music, John Williams is unmatched today. Even Morricone, who is a great idiosyncratic composer, doesn't have the command of the full orchestral pallete on the level Williams does. Yeah but he got a much bigger grasp on unconventional, often surprising musical solutions. Take your pick what is the more important quality. That's where it usually gets messy here. Dixon Hill and mrbellamy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 29 minutes ago, Jay said: Completely disagree. JW is extremely talented and IS the world's greatest living composer, but he unquestionably was given great opportunities many great composers never get He earned those opportunities through his reputation He wasn't givin anything. Spielberg recognized his talent and wanted to collaborate. John could have easily failed as he succeded. The fact that John didn't screw up his opportunities bodes well too. And in the long run JW did more for SS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 I prefer Horner. Unlucky Bastard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,343 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 I prefer Goldsmith, Horner, Powell, Young and Broughton. But Williams is pretty dang alright. Would probably be ranked right after the five. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 1 hour ago, JoeinAR said: Stop the madness. John worked his ass off and deserves the title of America's Greatest Living Composer. If others didn't make it they didn't do the work to make it. You're such a crapmeister sometimes. Kasey Kockroach and Dixon Hill 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,233 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Look I know it's futile for me to even argue about this but to say he's the greatest living film composer is one thing. To say he is the greatest living composer overall is just musically ignorant. That's not to say he can't be your favorite of course, but let's not get carried away with these absolutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,343 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 1 hour ago, JoeinAR said: Stop the madness. John worked his ass off and deserves the title of America's Greatest Living Composer. If others didn't make it they didn't do the work to make it. Yes, he worked so hard to rip off Bernard Hermann. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,510 Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Has any living composer so effectively and knowledgeably combined old and new with singular artistic direction as Williams has? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 If your only frame of reference are Spielberg and Star Wars movies the answer can only be 'No'. Dixon Hill and Kasey Kockroach 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 24 minutes ago, publicist said: You're such a crapmeister sometimes. Sorry don't know what the fuck you are saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,343 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 8 minutes ago, Steve McQueen said: Has any living composer so effectively and knowledgeably combined old and new with singular artistic direction as Williams has? That is some pretentious lingo you got there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 8 minutes ago, kaseykockroach said: Yes, he worked so hard to rip off Bernard Hermann. Again stop the madness. WILLIAMS is so much better than Herrmann ever could be on his best day. Perhaps you should be posting your views @bhfan.com i hear its a shriek of a site Fabulin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,343 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 IT'S THE WILLIAMS MADNESS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,233 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, Fabulin said: That sounds arcane. Would you be so kind to share the names of some of those greater masters? Or is it a bluff of "there likely is somewhere..." Arcane? Are you sure that's the word you're looking for? Anyway of course we can argue to the end of time about what makes a composer great. But some names that come to mind who I judge as operating on at the very least a firmly equal and probably somewhat higher musical plane, and who overall show a much more diverse and rich output, are John Adams, Per Norgard, Magnus Lindberg, James MacMillan, Anders Hillborg, George Crumb, John Corigliano, George Benjamin, Kaija Saariaho ,and I'm probably forgetting a few others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 23 minutes ago, Steve McQueen said: Has any living composer so effectively and knowledgeably combined old and new with singular artistic direction as Williams has? Yes. Many composers have made that their solo focus, unlike Williams, who has, for the better part of his career, been in service of film above all else. John Adams, John Corigliano, James MacMillon, George Benjamin and Julia Wolfe are a few names that come to mind. Williams is certainly amongst the finest living composers and there's no denying that he's of another breed, with the kind of mastery of technique and musical vocabulary that belongs to another age. But he is not unrivalled. SteveMc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 1 hour ago, publicist said: Yeah but he got a much bigger grasp on unconventional, often surprising musical solutions. Take your pick what is the more important quality. That's where it usually gets messy here. I agree. For a start, I'd never call Morricone a boring film composer. I think Williams has been quite boring musically in his later years though, on occasion. He's a very predicable composer and always has been. But in some ways that's also what makes his work so consistently very high quality, at least on a technical level (and some might say on other levels too). Whether or not I enjoy the music is another matter; I'll never deny it is music of the highest sophistication and integrity - within the orchestral scoring medium, because to deny it would be false. End of the day I try to be objective about these things. But you'd have to be tone deaf to not hear compositional maturity par excellence in what Williams writes these days. Even if it is a bit on the conservative side for my tastes, sometimes. (I prefer younger, more "unpolished" Williams). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,343 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 I merely prefer a lot of composers to Williams as he never did any cartoon music, which is guaranteed to make a composer vastly less interesting to me. And no, I don't count Tintin as a cartoon, that's just mo-crap stuff. Love that score though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loert 2,510 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 The thing about Williams is he doesn't need musical solutions, as he never runs into musical problems in the first place. 2 minutes ago, kaseykockroach said: I merely prefer a lot of composers to Williams as he never did any cartoon music *ahem* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,343 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Clearly meant a whole score, but that cue is amusing enough to have. A bit too self-conscious a Stalling parody, but I figure that's the joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 14 minutes ago, TGP said: Arcane? Are you sure that's the word you're looking for? Anyway of course we can argue to the end of time about what makes a composer great. But some names that come to mind who I judge as operating on at the very least a firmly equal and probably somewhat higher musical plane, and who overall show a much more diverse and rich output, are John Adams, Per Norgard, Magnus Lindberg, James MacMillan, Anders Hillborg, George Crumb, John Corigliano, George Benjamin, Kaija Saariaho ,and I'm probably forgetting a few others. Meh I have to say at least Saariaho and Lindberg(my country) are not very interesting. I met salonen and magnus in a bar and said Johnny is better!! Saariaho is not music. Its music theory😭😭😭 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 1 hour ago, JoeinAR said: He earned those opportunities through his reputation Exactly. The man worked his ass off for 20something years as a professional in his field before reaching the ears of Spielberg. 8 minutes ago, KK said: Yes. Many composers have made that their solo focus, unlike Williams. Williams is certainly amongst the finest living composers, but as Grey said, it's no absolute. Indeed. Though while his pallette and overall "direction", as of the last several years, has become mostly predictable, I will say that I always admire Williams' ability to take something and throw it through a musical twist and turn that you're not expecting. 6 minutes ago, Loert said: The thing about Williams is he doesn't need musical solutions, as he never runs into musical problems in the first place. Is this like the new Chuck Norris thing? Fabulin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,233 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, hornist said: Meh I have to say at least Saariaho and Lindberg(my country) are not very interesting. I met salonen and magnus in a bar and said Johnny is better!! Yeah. I'm sure they and Williams all really appreciated that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Just now, TGP said: Yeah. I'm sure they and Williams all really appreciated that. Maybe he forgot to include a "they" in front of said? I'd like to think he wouldn't be so rude to do something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, Quintus said: I agree. For a start, I'd never call Morricone a boring film composer. I think Williams has been quite boring musically in his later years though, on occasion. He's a very predicable composer and always has been. But in some ways that's also what makes his work so consistently very high quality, at least on a technical level (and some might say on other levels too). Whether or not I enjoy the music is another matter; I'll never deny it isn't music of the highest sophistication and integrity - within the filmic medium, because that would be false. End of the day I try to be objective about these things. What it boils down to for me is that there is not sufficient discussion ground on these silly threads because the posters throwing around their semantic weight the loudest have a woefully small frame of reference - it's all about american movies, 1977 onwards, and Oscar wins, Who wants to be a Millionaire mentions, box office and all that bullshit and there just isn't any curiousity or interest in anything besides that. Cue that obligatory 'Oh i saw that european/korean/icelandic flick, boring as fuck' and turn on your heels. Dixon Hill and Kasey Kockroach 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,233 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Nick Parker said: Maybe he forgot to include a "they" in front of said? I'd like to think he wouldn't be so rude to do something like that. That would be nice, wouldn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 1 minute ago, TGP said: Yeah. I'm sure they and Williams all really appreciated that. Just now, Nick Parker said: Maybe he forgot to include a "they" in front of said? I'd like to think he wouldn't be so rude to do something like that. I didn't but I said I like Williams more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,343 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Nick Parker said: Maybe he forgot to include a "they" in front of said? I'd like to think he wouldn't be so rude to do something like that. The dude can't even spell, capitalize or punctuate, let alone take any social cues! Fabulin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 9 minutes ago, kaseykockroach said: The dude can't even spell, capitalize or punctuate, let alone take any social cues! Are you referring me sunshine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Just now, hornist said: Are you referring me sunshine? Yes, to a qualified therapist! Heard healthcare is good in your part of the world. Fabulin, Joni Wiljami and Kasey Kockroach 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,343 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 You should have a comma after "me" and before "sunshine". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 12 minutes ago, Nick Parker said: Yes, to a qualified therapist! Heard healthcare is good in your part of the world. Well you know something about my state but nothing about music you idiot. This is not my first language so give me a break. Fucking moron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,343 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 I see music AND English are both languages beyond your comprehension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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