gkgyver 1,645 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 On 5. Oktober 2018 at 7:27 PM, TGP said: Defend him against what? Against nonsensical deification which cheapens his legacy rather than enriches it? A few of us are trying to defend against that if you look again. Unlike the nonsensical, dictatorial relativism and defending you practice with Hans Zimmer, which totally doesn't cheapen anything, and whose opponents you totally don't accuse of having an agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,510 Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,343 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 John Corigliano would be more popular if people knew how the hell you're supposed to pronounce his last name! Sheesh, it's a mouthful. Unlucky Bastard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,233 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 9 minutes ago, gkgyver said: Unlike the nonsensical, dictatorial relativism and defending you practice with Hans Zimmer, which totally doesn't cheapen anything, and whose opponents you totally don't accuse of having an agenda. You're correct it's completely different. I'm not trying to oversell Zimmer as the greatest ever, I just believe in credit where credit is due, and I think he is due credit whether or not you actually like what he does, and I also think more people need to try to have a level and fair head about him in general. Whereas this kind of puffing up of Williams' abilities and legacies to somewhat overblown levels does, to me, detract from all of the praise that he is rightly due. Both represent silly extremes, deification and demonization. Truth as always is somewhere comfortably right in the sane middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Nick Parker said: TGP wanna be great. J oke😂😂😂 Knows nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 John had it so easy. Everything was given to him. He worked for gems like I Passed for White Gidget goes to Rome Daddy-O Daddy's Gone A-Hunting. Ah the Classics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 1 hour ago, publicist said: What it boils down to for me is that there is not sufficient discussion ground on these silly threads because the posters throwing around their semantic weight the loudest have a woefully small frame of reference - it's all about american movies, 1977 onwards, and Oscar wins, Who wants to be a Millionaire mentions, box office and all that bullshit and there just isn't any curiousity or interest in anything besides that. Cue that obligatory 'Oh i saw that european/korean/icelandic flick, boring as fuck' and turn on your heels. To me this just reads like, "oh okay I admit I begrudgingly don't deny that there's nobody else working in film music these days who is pound for pound a match for Williams' compositional chops and talent, but I hate that I can't disagree with you all because I think what I do about the subject for different and important reasons to you lot, bah!" "I am a serious film score enthusiast damn it!" There is more to this fine medium than Force themes and other populist ditties!" It's as if you dislike that you have to fraternise about this stuff, but you just can't help yourself. But is being irked off about it every time this comes up really worth the hassle? I couldn't be arsed. *Superman March* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,233 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 26 minutes ago, hornist said: TGP wanna be great. J oke😂😂😂 Knows nothing I don't want to be great and I never will be. I am a mediocre composer who scrounges for work amongst many far more talented and hungry people but I do get jobs, I get paid sometimes a very decent amount to do things I love, and I have gotten to meet many wonderful people both famous and behind the curtains. This is to say nothing of what I've done as a husband and father which is much more worthwhile. I know enough, at least, to not be such a truly nasty and belligerent person as you are, alcohol or not. And certainly not over something so insignificant and petty as all of our minute gradations of Williams devotion. SteveMc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 I like how JW plays all the instruments on all his scores. None of the other composers can say the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 5 minutes ago, TGP said: I don't want to be great and I never will be. I am a mediocre composer who scrounges for work amongst many far more talented and hungry people but I do get jobs, I get paid sometimes a very decent amount to do things I love, and I have gotten to meet many wonderful people both famous and behind the curtains. This is to say nothing of what I've done as a husband and father which is much more worthwhile. I know enough, at least, to not be such a truly nasty and belligerent person as you are, alcohol or not. And certainly not over something so insignificant and petty as all of our minute gradations of Williams devotion. Lovely story!! And not alcohol this time, I just do not love the better people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,823 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 10 minutes ago, Wojism said: I like how JW plays all the instruments on all his scores. None of the other composers can say the same. Kasey Kockroach 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,233 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, hornist said: Lovely story!! And not alcohol this time, I just do not love the better people. Whatever mate. We've been back and forth and I could always laugh it off but now it's just too much, too weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Sorry for the shit but why do you say you are mediocre composer? You might be briIliant... have done 35 years searching a perfect mouthpiece to provide a perfect sound. We must trust ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,233 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Yeah nice attempt to bring things back to room temperature but that's one too many for me sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Nice. I tried at least!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 2 hours ago, hornist said: Well you know something about my state but nothing about music you idiot. This is not my first language so give me a break. Fucking moron. Dont worry about English so much, I'd say your time would be better spent learning how to conduct yourself like a decent human being. Time and time again you show little but contempt for those who hold a view different from your own, personally and aggressively insulting people for no discernible reason. How you haven't been 86'd from this place is beyond me. Unlucky Bastard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 2 hours ago, TGP said: Arcane? Are you sure that's the word you're looking for? Anyway of course we can argue to the end of time about what makes a composer great. But some names that come to mind who I judge as operating on at the very least a firmly equal and probably somewhat higher musical plane, and who overall show a much more diverse and rich output, are John Adams, Per Norgard, Magnus Lindberg, James MacMillan, Anders Hillborg, George Crumb, John Corigliano, George Benjamin, Kaija Saariaho ,and I'm probably forgetting a few others. I must admit I am not at all familiar with some of the names you mention. I am quite familiar with the music of Adams, MacMillan and Corigliano, though, and, for me, Williams is definitely comfortably in that group: I'd go as far as to say that only Adams might have a case for superiority there, but perhaps not in all areas. MacMillan, though, I must say, I do quite enjoy his work. 1 hour ago, JoeinAR said: Gidget goes to Rome That makes me feel better about my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,510 Posted October 18, 2018 Author Share Posted October 18, 2018 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, Fabulin said: well-articulated micromanagement Now that's a hell of a phrase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 7 hours ago, Quintus said: It's as if you dislike that you have to fraternise about this stuff, but you just can't help yourself. But is being irked off about it every time this comes up really worth the hassle? I couldn't be arsed. Still, you are. Like a fever rush, these threads are over as soon as they have began - and of course, nobody really gives a shit. So they must have some ritual meaning, like a cleansing rain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,233 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 It helps to move the bowels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 I could never work out why TGP is always so offhand and mean to Hornist. I suppose I must have missed the thread with the big fallout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 8 hours ago, Nick Parker said: Dont worry about English so much, I'd say your time would be better spent learning how to conduct yourself like a decent human being. Time and time again you show little but contempt for those who hold a view different from your own, personally and aggressively insulting people for no discernible reason. How you haven't been 86'd from this place is beyond me. Sorry about that. Domestic problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, hornist said: Sorry about that. Domestic problems. I appreciate your apology, Pasi, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,510 Posted October 18, 2018 Author Share Posted October 18, 2018 . Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,343 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 Answering your question requires embracing the delusion that John Williams is the very bestest of all timez, and I think a lot of us are a bit less naive and narrow-minded than that. Unlucky Bastard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 Attack! Kasey Kockroach 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 29 minutes ago, kaseykockroach said: Answering your question requires embracing the delusion that John Williams is the very bestest of all timez, and I think a lot of us are a bit less naive and narrow-minded than that. Well, he is arguably the bestest film composer of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Quintus said: Well, he is arguably the bestest film composer of all time. Many on JWfan would probably disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 Good for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,343 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 It IS good for them! It keeps them healthy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 Unless it's a real clean-cut preference, who ranks people at the top, anyways? I always assume that after someone reaches your top echelon, that's the end of it. Dixon Hill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,343 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 Ranking's fun! (As long as you don't take it too seriously, which a lot of folks probably do) I'm not sure I have a number one pick anymore. I definitely know who my top five are, but I can't choose one out of the favorite five! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, kaseykockroach said: Ranking's fun! (As long as you don't take it too seriously, which a lot of folks probably do) Fuck you and your John Scott-ass trash! Kasey Kockroach 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,343 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 5 minutes ago, Nick Parker said: Fuck you and your John Scott-ass trash! I promise I'll listen to more modern Williams! Please don't hurt me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,233 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 10 hours ago, Quintus said: I could never work out why TGP is always so offhand and mean to Hornist. I suppose I must have missed the thread with the big fallout. There was no one thing but as long as I’ve been here at the forum he’s been very little other than nasty to anyone including me who doesn’t meet his standards of Williams devotion and/or Zimmer disdain. At nearly every turn on such subjects there he is, at best being dismissive or at worst totally vicious. I’m not talking about arguing/debate or anything like that which is fine, this is just unmitigated aggression. Nobody could accuse me of having a timid personality and I’ve certainly changed my tune even more with him accordingly but I think and hope I’ve never been close to the level of personal belligerence that he’s displayed most recently right here in this thread. If I have I apologize to him and the community here but I don’t think so. Nick Parker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 Ranking is boring. But John Williams is pretty fucking great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 Good to see this forum is finally over Howard Shore. Kasey Kockroach 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,343 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 49 minutes ago, Norma's Corpse said: Good to see this forum is finally over Howard Shore. Even the one score of his I like, The Fly, completely pales to Chris Young's sequel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 The Shore Fly is better than the Young. Shore's great and is more interesting than the maestro in certain departments. But Williams easily outclasses him as a composer, as he does when compared to most film composers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,343 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, KK said: The Shore Fly is better than the Young. Nah. Above-average score and terrible album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,233 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 It's ok. Very grandiose which is the point. Easily prefer it to Young's though. I've never gotten much out of his music for whatever reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 Young's score leans a little too much on the conventional, vanilla side for me. Shore's larger-than-life, operatic take is more interesting. Young isn't always harmonically the most interesting composer for me. But as a genre guy, he's great fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,343 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 I shore do think I'm clearly in a losing battle here, so what the hey... Paying 30$ for Shore's score was one of the biggest wastes of money in my soundtrack-loving life. Great score in a great film, but an above-average listen on a messy album. Dude can't even write an interesting theme if his life depended on it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,675 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 I'd certainly agree that themes are not Shore's strong point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Richard Penna said: I'd certainly agree that themes are not Shore's strong point. Do you feel like that hurts his work, or is it just something that's not in his character? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 15 hours ago, Richard Penna said: I'd certainly agree that themes are not Shore's strong point. Hmm, I think he writes quite strong and memorable themes, when called upon. Certainly much better than the generic dreck I hear coming out of some of the new wave musicians plying their wares in the industry these days. For me, Shore's blind spot is his action material, which can be awfully repetitive and uninspired IMO. Which isn't to say he hasn't also written some teriffic cues in the action mould, because he has. But they are few and far between. 17 hours ago, Stefancos said: Many on JWfan would probably disagree. Anyway, aren't you one of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,675 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 I see part of Shore's weakness as inconsistency. Some of his themes are really good, but others are meh. I think the Misty Mountains theme is the best theme in the trilogy, for example. I'd support your notion on his action music. Compare the Osgiliath siege with the Shelob sequences. I usually nod off during the former, whereas the latter is a fascinating listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,499 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 14 minutes ago, Richard Penna said: I think the Misty Mountains theme is the best theme in the trilogy, for example. Which was written by Plan 9, not Shore Could that have had a hand in it not being used at all in DoS and BotFA? Rights issues? I do like the Osgiliath siege. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,675 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Holko said: Which was written by Plan 9, not Shore Yes, that's my point, that what I considered the best theme wasn't by shore I'd initially thought maybe Shore didn't want to use it subsequently as it wasn't his theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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