John Williams' DRACULA - MUSIC ONLY discussion

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

he has his royalties and must want us to pay him twice i suppose....

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

4 hours ago, rough cut said:

It’s been so long since I saw the movie... A 1900s waltz from JW, I can’t remember picking it up in the movie... But I want to hear it! It’s a bit sad it’s not on the DE.

 

Regarding source cues, I understand JW’s reluctance to not have them released but so much time has passed since the movie was scored and released... I wish he’d embrace a more open minded relationship to these mature scores.

 

Knowing he doesn’t want it released, it seems almost disrespectful to wish for a release... in the future. : /

 

A prime example of entitlement!

[rough cut 1,714]

How the BLOODY F... is this entitlement?

[Incanus 5,713]

On 1/20/2019 at 8:36 PM, rough cut said:

It’s been so long since I saw the movie... A 1900s waltz from JW, I can’t remember picking it up in the movie... But I want to hear it! It’s a bit sad it’s not on the DE.

 

Regarding source cues, I understand JW’s reluctance to not have them released but so much time has passed since the movie was scored and released... I wish he’d embrace a more open minded relationship to these mature scores.

 

Knowing he doesn’t want it released, it seems almost disrespectful to wish for a release... in the future. : /

I guess Williams considers source music, unless it is something very dear to his heart or has some particular fondness for doing some individual cue in some source music style or sees the source material very closely connected with the fabric of a particular film, even less interesting than he often might view some of his actual film cues to be in a complete score presentation when he thinks these things from the point of view of a composer. Some diegetic source music like the Cantina Band or Harry Potter source pieces are so iconic or memorable in their own right he readily releases them, even as part of the soundtrack album, whereas things like marching band music from Jaws or this waltz from Dracula are simply not on his radar as particularly good music, just stuff he had to compose as a background real world ambiance for a scene to give it some verisimilitude.

 

And of course you can't underestimate the negotiations concerning these things that people like Matessino go through to get the scores released and I bet source music, if it isn't of exceptionally notable quality or in close connection to the film score, might be the first and easiest thing to leave off these releases. That said it I too think it is a bit of a shame this material is not released (even if it is preserved when the tapes are transferred from analog to digital) but if truth be told there are precious few source pieces from Williams' scores that I personally view as so notable or lovely I consider then a must-have.

[Holko 9,499]

The Superman source cues are some of the least interesting I've heard, library stock level at first glance, but they still are released, some multiple times. Not with their own score this last round, but still.

In the case of Dracula I could also see presenting the long OOP OST finally in listenable quality on CD as its own thing being more the goal than making it a "dump disc" with shit that simply didn't fit on D1.

[Incanus 5,713]

4 minutes ago, Holko said:

The Superman source cues are some of the least interesting I've heard, library stock level at first glance, but they still are released, some multiple times. Not with their own score this last round, but still.

In the case of Dracula I could also see presenting the long OOP OST finally in listenable quality on CD as its own thing being more the goal than making it a "dump disc" with shit that simply didn't fit on D1.

Yes. I suppose each score warrants a case-by-case consideration of how to present them on disc and what to include. Several of Mike Matessino's interviews tell as much.

[Amer 2,080]

There was 19 minutes of the source music from SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE. How else could they fit on the already full cds? [LLL set i.e] 

[Incanus 5,713]

27 minutes ago, Amer said:

There was 19 minutes of the source music from SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE. How else could they fit on the already full cds? [LLL set i.e] 

Yes it was a rather strange way to do it to cram them on the Superman II and III release but it would not have not fitted on the new Supeman the Movie set so I think the end justifies the means. I am rather surprised Williams allowed them to release that source music in the first place. Glad he did though.

[Jurassic Shark 12,028]

2 minutes ago, Incanus said:

Yes it was a rather strange way to do it to cram them on the Superman II and III release

 

It was a smart business decision.

 

Inky, did you see my PM?

[Amer 2,080]

2 hours ago, Incanus said:

Yes it was a rather strange way to do it to cram them on the Superman II and III release but it would not have not fitted on the new Supeman the Movie set so I think the end justifies the means. I am rather surprised Williams allowed them to release that source music in the first place. Glad he did though.

 

 

Yes, but I tend to think that this was initially planned as a 4CD set. They would have put the film score program on Disc 1 & 2 , Alternates & Source music on Disc 3 and the OST on Disc 4. Until John Williams management decided to nix the Source cues from the set. The rest is history.  

[Jurassic Shark 12,028]

The source cues aren't that interesting, though, so I completely understand JW's decision.

[Romão 2,274]

This release greatly increased my appreciation for this score. It's fantastic. One of the best JW expansions ever, in terms of actually improving the perception one has of a given score

[filmmusic 1,823]

Can anyone provide timestamps for the Van Helsing motif that I just read in the liner notes, which is in "Grave trampling and the asylum", "into the crypt" and "van helsing's solution"?

(I just got my cd )
 

[Holko 9,499]

Well the whole Grave Trampling track consists purely of that descending motif, you can't miss it.

[Holko 9,499]

Oh wow, is that cimbalom I'm hearing in Dracula Meets Van Helsing?

[stravinsky 203]

On 21/09/2020 at 6:44 PM, Holko said:

Oh wow, is that cimbalom I'm hearing in Dracula Meets Van Helsing?

 

Yes I think you are right! You must have Panasonic ears because I wouldn't have noticed it. I couldn't work out if it was Harp but I think there is a Cimbalom played very quietly in the middle of the cue. Also the Dulcimer appears to meld with the sound of Harp at the very Jaws 2 like coda of this cue. Just an example of the Williams/Spencer attention to detail. Fascinating. 

[Holko 9,499]

2 minutes ago, stravinsky said:

You must have Panasonic ears because I wouldn't have noticed it.

My hungarian ears are just naturally attuned to cimbalom

[stravinsky 203]

Just now, Holko said:

My hungarian ears are just naturally attuned to cimbalom

 

Ah well that explains things! For me this score (which I'm listening to again right now) is perfect music for Autumn creeping into Winter. Also would I be right in saying there are actually very few "Themes" in this score?

 

Main Dracula Theme

Van Helsings Motif 

Mina Theme

 

Is that it? 

[Holko 9,499]

So far we only really kept the first 2 in the "canon", where's what you call Mina Theme? Does it recur or is it just "For Mina"?

[Jay 37,287]

I listened to this album last weekend for Spooktober. It's pretty great, I vsnt believe I never knew this score until the expansion came out 

[Jay 37,287]

I've listened to this album twice this month now.  This is good stuff.  I can't believe I spent so many years not knowing it at all.  The specialty labels giving new life to scores whose OST albums didn't stay in print, is a wonderful thing!

[Jay 37,287]

One of my favorite tracks on the album is "Grave Trampling and the Asylum"

 

I think the entire 65 minute main program is great, but if there's any part of it that would be considered the least effective part for me, it's probably the section after the Main Titles before this track comes on.  When this hits it really is very exciting and from this point until the end credits it's just superb

[tranders65 65]

Okay, gonna have to disagree with you on that, Jay- there are so many moody, melodic short cues in that stretch! Do not ask me why, because there’s no rhyme or reason to why certain cues hit people the way they do, but I have always, ever since I got the LP way back in probably 1983 or 84, loved that little short  beginning to “Give Me Your Loyalty” (the beginning of “The Abduction of Lucy” on the original release). 

[Holko 9,499]

13 hours ago, Jay said:

that would be considered the least effective part for me, it's probably the section after the Main Titles before this track comes on. 

Huh. If my attention starts wandering anywhere, it's between Night Journeys and Abduction of Lucy, not that I don't love many tracks in there.

[GerateWohl 4,333]

There are a few Williams scores that I really like musically and which I adore listening to in album, but when I first heard them in the movie, I thought, too much music. It almost distracts me from what's happening on the screen. So was the case with Dracula. Permanently, you got hit by the brillant main theme. It is brillant, but in the movie I found it too much at some point in time. But I really love the album.

[Amer 2,080]

I was just thinking that this is one of those scores that was written in during Williams prime fertile period in the late 70's. early 80's time frame. I find that some of the dark materials and orchestration wise its similar to the moody dark underscoring of THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK. 

 

 

[GerateWohl 4,333]

1 hour ago, Amer said:

I was just thinking that this is one of those scores that was written in during Williams prime fertile period in the late 70's. early 80's time frame. I find that some of the dark materials and orchestration wise its similar to the moody dark underscoring of THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK. 

 

 

Yes, the Dracula main theme always reminded me of the music when the milenium falcon approached the cloud city.

 

[Amer 2,080]

I find the sequence from Carbon Freeze as strongly familair in DRACULA.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,496]

Out of interest, who saw DRACULA at the cinema, on its first release?

[Jurassic Shark 12,028]

How old are you, Richard? I'm starting to suspect you are Dracula!

[Jay 37,287]

I wasn't born yet when Dracula 1979 was playing in cinemas

[Naïve Old Fart 9,496]

53 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

How old are you, Richard? I'm starting to suspect you are Dracula!

Eejit.

[stravinsky 203]

Listen to the beautiful Horn statement of the Main Theme with brooding harmony in the lower strings at 1:07 in "The First Kiss". Perhaps my favourite moment in this dark majestic symphony. 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

21 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Eejit.

 

Are you really going to deny that you fought the Ottoman hordes in Wallachia in the 15th century?  We know the truth, Richard!  How many Turks did you behead?!

[Naïve Old Fart 9,496]

7 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

 

Are you really going to deny that you fought the Ottoman hordes in Wallachia in the 15th century?  We know the truth, Richard!  How many Turks did you behead?!

Enough. Enough to know that enough is never enough.

[DangerMotif 1,037]

About to purchase this, don’t know much about the score other than the amazing main title. How is this release?

[Jay 37,287]

Fantastic! 

[crumbs 14,300]

22 minutes ago, Gibster said:

About to purchase this, don’t know much about the score other than the amazing main title. How is this release?

 

It's stunning, one of the best expanded releases of all time.

 

It's Williams during his golden period with the LSO. The music is gothic, atmospheric and romantic.

 

The packaging alone is worth the price of the set, much less the score. They really went all out for this one.

 

You won't be disappointed.

[Romão 2,274]

It's one of the best JW expansions there is, in terms of improving the presentation and consequent appreciation of the score

[DangerMotif 1,037]

you guys are the best, just ordered it. does anyone know where I can get the highest res version of the cover art? thanks for all the help

[crumbs 14,300]

6 minutes ago, Gibster said:

you guys are the best, just ordered it. does anyone know where I can get the highest res version of the cover art? thanks for all the help

 

Jim Titus did an amazingly detailed article on the artwork he produced for this set. There might be a high resolution version of the cover art on that page?

[DangerMotif 1,037]

3 minutes ago, crumbs said:

 

Jim Titus did an amazingly detailed article on the artwork he produced for this set. There might be a high resolution version of the cover art on that page?

Sadly not

[crumbs 14,300]

Nevermind, JWFan itself has a high-res version:

 

 

This would look amazing converted into a vinyl cover.

 

A bit surprised Varese haven't explored a vinyl reissue of this release yet. Would be perfect for Halloween!

[DangerMotif 1,037]

3 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Nevermind, JWFan itself has a high-res version:

 

Thank you

[Jay 37,287]

You can also go to Varese's Facebook or Twitter feed and scroll backwards and find high res covers of all their club titles that way

[DangerMotif 1,037]

On 19/11/2018 at 5:45 PM, Jay said:

There's a lot of little similarities in this score to material he'd compose for his next score, the Empire Strikes Back, too

Was Empire after or 1941?

[Naïve Old Fart 9,496]

DRACULA - July, 1979,

1941 - December, 1979,

THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK - May, 1980.

[Tom 4,634]

2 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

DRACULA - July, 1979,

1941 - December, 1979,

THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK - May, 1980.

That is a hell of a run.  

[Naïve Old Fart 9,496]

Indeed.

[Jay 37,287]

On 13/07/2022 at 2:22 PM, Gibster said:

Was Empire after or 1941?

 

After Dracula (recorded April 24-May 16 1979) Williams did 1941 (recorded August 27-November 9 1979) and then Empire Strikes Back (recorded December 27 1979-January 18 1980)