rpvee 805 Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 9 hours ago, jamesluckard said: Thanks so much for all the amazing info! So great to know the name of the group who recorded that version, the liner notes of the Pour Sacha CD say it's performed by Naomi Shemer, but I suspected that was a misprint. By the way, the song is also spelled as "Chel" on the Pour Sacha CD: I suspect that's where they got that spelling for Schindler's List, since they used the recording from that CD in the film. Then, when they recorded the SL album version, they just used the same spelling. I actually like that about the song, as it's used in the film, because it's a hopeful moment as they all leave the camp and crest the hill toward freedom, and then transition into the survivors in the present, on another hill, in Jerusalem. Obviously the specific Six Day War connotations the song has in Israel made it distracting to audiences there, but without that, just as an ode to the eternal power of Jerusalem, I actually find it really appropriate for that sequence. My pleasure! Naomi Shemer did record a couple versions of the song herself, but no, the one in question is definitely by Adama. Very interesting about the “chel” spelling - but it definitely is “shel” in the majority of phonetical spellings. I love that interpretation of the song’s use at the end of the movie! It’s also just such a calming melody - the first half of the verse in particular - which further drives forward the hopefulness of the end. jamesluckard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,223 Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 I got it. Wow. No words can really express the impact of the Maestro’s score. The remastered sound is great. The tracks on disc 2 really add a lot to the rest of the score, especially the alternate cues. It is also great to finally have the two film versions of Schindler’s Workforce and I Could Have Done More. Dr. Rick and Disco Stu 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,795 Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 It should sound the same, right? There has not been any remastering on this release... A. A. Ron and bollemanneke 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. A. Ron 1,742 Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Luke Skywalker said: It should sound the same, right? There has not been any remastering on this release... That's correct, but let's be honest, it already sounded great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,343 Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 No it didn't, and I especially don't like how CD2 sounds totally different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,795 Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 Damn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,223 Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 Actually, it has been slightly remastered. There are little details I never heard before. In addition to the phenomenal presentation of the whole score on both discs, the liner notes are a fascinating read. For instance, I did not know that the Maestro himself performed the piano in Theme from Schindler's List (Reprise). I also did not know that the entire score was actually performed by two orchestras. There was one session of 25 minutes of music recorded with the Maestro conducting Itzhak Perlman and the Boston Symphony Orchestra. Then the rest was recorded with Los Angeles based musicians. I was always under the impression that the ENTIRE score was performed by the BSO. What tracks were performed by the Hollywood Studio Symphony? The entire liner notes are really moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. A. Ron 1,742 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 2 hours ago, JohnnyD said: Actually, it has been slightly remastered. The press release describes it as a remastered reissue, but then says: Quote Disc One of this special 2-CD presentation showcases the original soundtrack assembly, sourced from the original 1993 release’s 24-karat gold Ultimate Masterdisc digital master So yeah, not exactly clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JohnnyD 1,223 Posted December 8, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted December 8, 2018 I had the original motion picture soundtrack album prior to this, and this is definitely remastered, albeit slightly, but I can definitely tell. Another reflection on the release: I shed tears listening to the Maestro's score, with the content on Disc 2 being no exception, especially and particularly I Could Have Done More (Film Version). After having seen the 25th anniversary re-release of Schindler's List in theaters and seeing it on the big screen (the 4k remastered picture and Dolby Atmos sound remaster was particularly phenomenal), listening to the Maestro's score on the two CD release really deepened the experience profoundly. Amer, Demondm810 and Once 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 10 hours ago, JohnnyD said: I also did not know that the entire score was actually performed by two orchestras. There was one session of 25 minutes of music recorded with the Maestro conducting Itzhak Perlman and the Boston Symphony Orchestra. Then the rest was recorded with Los Angeles based musicians. I was always under the impression that the ENTIRE score was performed by the BSO. What tracks were performed by the Hollywood Studio Symphony? The most sensible guess we made through the years is that all the cues featuring Perlman were recorded in Boston, while all the rest was done in LA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,067 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 What a mess! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,714 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 13 minutes ago, TownerFan said: The most sensible guess we made through the years is that all the cues featuring Perlman were recorded in Boston, while all the rest was done in LA. To the credit of the composer, recording staff and performers I never noticed any clear difference between the Boston and the LA performances. Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,006 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 Didn't the original album state it was recorded in two places on the opposite sides of the country? Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 Yes, it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,352 Posted December 8, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted December 8, 2018 I listened to CD2 of this set the other day and loved it. I was moved by it. I've always loved the thematic material JW came up for this project, and have been moved when experiencing it live in concert. But the OST program was never a favorite of mine, I found the non-JW source pieces, and some of JW's score cues like Immolation too at odds with the experience the majority of the score provides. This 25 minute bonus CD does a pretty dang great job of setting a mood in the opening 12 minute track, then basically going through some amazing variants of the main themes before closing. I particularly loved the Perlman Family track. I overall find it a much more satisfying distillation of the best elements of the score than his OST program. It sounded great, too. I hope people don't skip this release because of a bootleg existing or because it came out the same day as Potter and other big titles. In addition to the music, I found Mike's liner notes incredibly moving as well, as well as interesting and informative. I know this isn't the definitive C&C style released we've been groomed to expect, especially from JW/SS/MM collaborations, but a lot of care and research was put into this set, and it contained everything the composer would let us include. I hope people pick it up. rough cut, Once, bollemanneke and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. A. Ron 1,742 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 58 minutes ago, Jay said: This 25 minute bonus CD does a pretty dang great job of setting a mood in the opening 12 minute track, then basically going through some amazing variants of the main themes before closing. I particularly loved the Perlman Family track. I overall find it a much more satisfying distillation of the best elements of the score than his OST program. Wow, that's quite the statement. I'm curious if I'll feel the same way. I did buy it, but thanks to Potter, Dracula, and TWINE, it'll be a while before it gets any serious amount of play from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,352 Posted December 8, 2018 Author Share Posted December 8, 2018 To be clear, I do think a C&C playlist of all the score cues (with no source cues included whatsoever) is a super sound presentation as well, but I don't like the OST program, especially the way it opens with the finale cue. bollemanneke and Once 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,310 Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 6 minutes ago, Jay said: To be clear, I do think a C&C playlist of all the score cues (with no source cues included whatsoever) is a super sound presentation as well, but I don't like the OST program, especially the way it opens with the finale cue. That's my biggest issue with that OST. It's probably one his least chronological. I also understand that it was considered 'sacrosanct' for this release. Either way, it should not be too difficult to recreate across these two discs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 8 minutes ago, Jay said: especially the way it opens with the finale cue. Saving Private Ryan Syndrome. Or I guess Schindler's Syndrome, since it came first. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,352 Posted December 9, 2018 Author Share Posted December 9, 2018 It's just as bad as "end credits in the middle of the program" syndrome (SpaceCamp, Jurassic Park) bollemanneke and A. A. Ron 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 I'm ok with end credits being the beginning of an OST program, but only IF it's a suite that's a nice summation of themes used in the score itself (which is obviously NOT "Hymn to the Fallen"), but being in the middle of the album is a bit of a head scratcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,352 Posted December 9, 2018 Author Share Posted December 9, 2018 Yea, the end credits opening Minority Report, The Lost World, and Raiders of the Lost Ark is kind of nice I don't like HWW as track 2 of the HPSS OST. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 11 minutes ago, Jay said: It's just as bad as "end credits in the middle of the program" syndrone (SpaceCamp, Jurassic Park) 13 minutes ago, Disco Stu said: Saving Private Ryan Syndrome. Or I guess Schindler's Syndrome, since it came first. I don't find that the dramaturgic problem applies to Schindler's List. "Hymn to the Fallen" is the highlight of the score, "Theme from Schindler's List" is not. That part is undertaken by "I Could Have Done More". The theme is great as an introduction, because SL doesn't have such an introductory cue in the film. SPR has "Revisiting Normandy". 5 minutes ago, Disco Stu said: I'm ok with end credits being the beginning of an OST program, but only IF it's a suite that's a nice summation of themes used in the score itself (which is obviously NOT "Hymn to the Fallen"), but being in the middle of the album is a bit of a head scratcher. 3 minutes ago, Jay said: Yea, the end credits opening Minority Report and Raiders of the Lost Ark is kind of nice That is exactly what I don't find good. I don't need a summary of the score at the beginning of the album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,843 Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 Maybe I've just grown used to JW's approach to album assembly but I am generally not bothered by where he sticks concert arrangements in the CD program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,352 Posted December 9, 2018 Author Share Posted December 9, 2018 Well, sometimes it makes more sense than others, in my opinion As a general rule though, I prefer every score, but especially JW ones, in C&C with concert arrangements after the end credits. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 I don't! A score ends after the end credits for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,310 Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 18 minutes ago, Jay said: Well, sometimes it makes more sense than others, in my opinion As a general rule though, I prefer every score, but especially JW ones, in C&C with concert arrangements after the end credits. Hey Jay, any chance of an updated spreadsheet now the LLL has filled in some gaps with SL? bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,352 Posted December 9, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted December 9, 2018 Oooh that's an old one! I will definitely update it sometime soon TSMefford, bollemanneke and crumbs 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. A. Ron 1,742 Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 3 hours ago, Brundlefly said: That is exactly what I don't find good. I don't need a summary of the score at the beginning of the album. So, do you not like overtures? Because you just described overtures. 2 hours ago, Jay said: As a general rule though, I prefer every score, but especially JW ones, in C&C with concert arrangements after the end credits. I don't always prefer it this way, but for me, it works more often than not. 2 hours ago, Stefancos said: I don't! A score ends after the end credits for me. But what if the concert suites are better than the end credits? Or what if they make a better ending? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 So any unboxing videos or at least some pics of this set? Damn, this wait is unbearable! Amer and Dr. Rick 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demondm810 399 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 What’s the best order for all of this now? bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Who 919 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 @Jay What listening order do you recommend? I was never a big fan of the album presentation because it had the last piece first... bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,067 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 I love it when musicality is prioritized over chronology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Who 919 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: I love it when musicality is prioritized over chronology. That's why the OST exists! bollemanneke and Jurassic Shark 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,006 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 I didn't have to time yet to listen. But boy, does this release look gorgeous. Might be the best looking JW release from LLL yet. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesluckard 80 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 Does anyone know the story behind the bonus tracks "Reflections" and "Theme for Recorder" from Disc 2? Neither appears in the film, presumably they're album suites that were dropped at the time? Oddly, track 4 on Disc 2, Remembrances, is listed as "alternate," but track 5, "The Perlman Family," is not, although it's definitely an alternate too, the film version is on the album. Perhaps it couldn't be listed as an alternate because the film version doesn't appear under that name, as it's the second half of "Stolen Memories." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,714 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 3 hours ago, jamesluckard said: Does anyone know the story behind the bonus tracks "Reflections" and "Theme for Recorder" from Disc 2? Neither appears in the film, presumably they're album suites that were dropped at the time? Oddly, track 4 on Disc 2, Remembrances, is listed as "alternate," but track 5, "The Perlman Family," is not, although it's definitely an alternate too, the film version is on the album. Perhaps it couldn't be listed as an alternate because the film version doesn't appear under that name, as it's the second half of "Stolen Memories." Reflections is the I Could Have Done More insert recorded at the initial sessions but which was not used and apparently a new final film version was composed and recorded by Williams. Perhaps Jay could tell us something more specific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,352 Posted December 14, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted December 14, 2018 1. Schindler's Workforce (Film Version) 12:09 = The exact same assembly of takes of 2M3/3M1 The Money Exchange & 3M1B Recruiting that the film uses (the OST album track used different takes and edit points) 2. Reflections 2:42 = 19M2/20M1 Insert 1, the first attempt to re-do the middle portion of 19M2/20M1 I Could Have Saved More that ultimately got rejected and Insert 2 was recorded and used instead 3. Theme For Recorder 2:15 = Something recorded at the sessions I believe as potential end credit material 4. Remembrances (Alternate) 4:31 = An early take with different instrumentation 5. The Perlman Family 1:15 = An early take of 10M1 The Perlman Family with a different guitar solo, the take used in the film was already on the OST as the second half of "Stolen Memories" 6. I Could Have Done More (Film Version) * 5:56 = 19M2/20M1 I Could Have Saved More with 19M2/20M1 Insert 2 properly edited into it, like in the final film. The OST album track is just the original cue with no inserts included. jamesluckard, Demondm810, Mr. Who and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demondm810 399 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 Brilliant, Jay. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesluckard 80 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 Thanks so much!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,352 Posted December 14, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted December 14, 2018 I've gone ahead and created a new spreadsheet from scratch for this score. So far, it only includes information about the SCORE cues, nothing about any source music. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tjZ3in_WVERGW9Kk6IcH3UqG002yv-oU6hJVU6Lv28o/ bollemanneke, jamesluckard and Nemesis 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesluckard 80 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, Jay said: I've gone ahead and created a new spreadsheet from scratch for this score. So far, it only includes information about the SCORE cues, nothing about any source music. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tjZ3in_WVERGW9Kk6IcH3UqG002yv-oU6hJVU6Lv28o/ Thank you SO much!!! there's such a massive amount of source music, from various sources, that it's really helpful to have a clean spreadsheet like this of JUST the Williams-composed material. I'm sure someone will create something adding in the Williams-conducted pop songs and the many existing recordings that were tracked in as well, but this is HUGELY helpful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,352 Posted December 14, 2018 Author Share Posted December 14, 2018 I'll add a tab that covers the source music and the recording sessions leak at some point I hope for now people are just enjoying listening to the new set as-is jamesluckard and TownerFan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 It is really incredible how little original score can be heard during the first two hours of the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesluckard 80 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 19 minutes ago, Brundlefly said: It is really incredible how little original score can be heard during the first two hours of the movie. I agree, it's amazing that almost all the score is in the film's final hour. It's really quite brilliant, because it lulls you into a sense that the film is a document, instead of a fiction, and once you're safely hooked by the film, the music subtly emerges, until it absolutely dominates the final portion. This choice Williams makes is extremely similar to what he did in, of all things, Black Sunday, which is one of my favorite films and one of my favorite Williams scores. Back in about 2002 they did a retrospective of Williams films at the AFI in DC leading up to a Williams concert, and they screened both Schindler's List and Black Sunday. I believe I remember reading the films they played were selected or at least approved by him. Nick Parker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,352 Posted December 14, 2018 Author Share Posted December 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, jamesluckard said: I agree, it's amazing that almost all the score is in the film's final hour. It's really quite brilliant, because it lulls you into a sense that the film is a document, instead of a fiction, and once you're safely hooked by the film, the music subtly emerges, until it absolutely dominates the final portion. Yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesluckard 80 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 On that note, I've always wondered if the album suite "Jewish Town (Krakow Ghetto - Winter '41)" was perhaps intended to actually be used in the film in that early portion, perhaps in scenes that were cut, but then it was realized that there should be almost no music that early in the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,352 Posted December 14, 2018 Author Share Posted December 14, 2018 Nah, it would have a reel/part number on the sheet music if that was the case jamesluckard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 3 hours ago, jamesluckard said: agree, it's amazing that almost all the score is in the film's final hour. It's really quite brilliant, because it lulls you into a sense that the film is a document, instead of a fiction, and once you're safely hooked by the film, the music subtly emerges, until it absolutely dominates the final portion. Having seen the film a few days ago, for the first time in ten years, I absolutely agree with you. I know when a lot of people debate whether Schindler's List has an "appropriate" score, they tend to discuss more the idiom and the emotional character of the music, but it's hard to ignore such a powerful, less tangible aspect of the score as its spotting. Those elements combined serve to perfectly mirror the gradual opening of emotional valve of both the film (the first cue being a very sparse and austere rendition of the theme and its eventual climax with "I Could Have Done More", for example), and character of Schindler himself (starting off as a guy who's pissed off at a handicapped worker expressing gratitude and shouting "What's his use!?", to a man who can only lament every conceivable missed opportunity to save what would be only a few more people). All in all, an immensely effective, rarely achieved synergy between these various elements. Not Mr. Big and jamesluckard 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,310 Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 12 hours ago, Jay said: 2. Reflections 2:42 = 19M2/20M1 Insert 1, the first attempt to re-do the middle portion of 19M2/20M1 I Could Have Saved More that ultimately got rejected and Insert 2 was recorded and used instead This is fantastic news, I didn't realise this track was the unused insert I was referring to earlier in the thread. I figured it was missing from the set when I saw only one additional version of I Could Have Saved More. It makes sense that Mike chose to include this insert by itself rather than present a third iteration of I Could Have Saved More as a further alternate. So it's great that all 3 iterations written by Williams are included across both CDs. I've always considered the final film version the best so I'm really happy we finally have that released (it wasn't in the session leak for whatever reason, possibly a different recording venue). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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