Harry Potter - The John Williams Soundtrack Collection 7CD boxset from La-La Land Records (2018)

[Jay 37,352]

15 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

Thanks that clears it up. Does the actual Diagon Alley music appear in the film at all though?

 

No, but a new recording of it was used on COS when they return to Diagon Alley!

[crumbs 14,306]

I'm glad Mischief Managed wasn't included on this set, just a waste of disc space. Curious to hear what Williams' original intention for the Azkaban end credits suite was. Vaguely recall reading on here that they re-recorded Harry's Wondrous World during the Azkaban sessions so maybe it's The Firebolt into the end credits opener (with film insert) into a shorter version of HWW. 

 

In the existing end credits track, there's only 4:08 of original music before tracked music takes over, leaving about 3:15 unaccounted for in this new track. Exciting! 

[Faleel 5,346]

10 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Vaguely recall reading on here that they re-recorded Harry's Wondrous World during the Azkaban sessions . 

I remember KM talking about a HP3 version of HWW, but it was a concert piece IIRC.

I have an edit of POA, that has what I assume has some material from the film version of the credits, which is 7:20, and it is Double Trouble - Double Trouble Consort Arrangement - Window to the Past - Nimbus 2000.

[Jay 37,352]

10 minutes ago, crumbs said:

I'm glad Mischief Managed wasn't included on this set, just a waste of disc space. Curious to hear what Williams' original intention for the Azkaban end credits suite was. Vaguely recall reading on here that they re-recorded Harry's Wondrous World during the Azkaban sessions so maybe it's The Firebolt into the end credits opener (with film insert) into a shorter version of HWW. 

 

In the existing end credits track, there's only 4:08 of original music before tracked music takes over, leaving about 3:15 unaccounted for in this new track. Exciting! 

 

 

 

 

On 7/27/2018 at 10:57 AM, Jay said:

When the sheet music for Azkaban leaked, we were surprised to learn the film / album version of the end credits (Mischief Managed) is not what Williams intended.  Basically, he wrote the original finale cue ("A New Broomstick") and the first ~3 1/2 minutes of the end credits ("End Credits", which encompasses the original Double Trouble and Past Theme material - the latter of which was also duplicated on the album in the track "A Window To The Past"), which was written to segue to bars 130-end of the "Hedwig's Theme" concert arrangement (the sheet music leak includes both the sheets for just the original end credits with a handwritten note indicating such, AND a version with those bars photocopied in from the Signature Edition of the Hedwig's Theme arrangement, with the bars renumbered to match their new placement).

 

Someone clearly decided they didn't want to use Hedwig's Theme for the end credits again (we don't even know if they recorded it or not), and instead constructed a new end credits medley consisted of bits tracked in from a bunch of cues.  For the album, they followed suite and re-created almost the same medley as the film (two pieces are swapped in order compared to the film version, and Hedwig's Theme appears at the end instead of Pettigrew's Theme).

 

On top of all that, he also rewrote "A New Broomstick"; Originally it was Hedwig's Theme -> Original fanfare -> Hedwig's Theme, but the revised version added in Nimbus 2000 instead of the original music, making it only the second theme from his original score to return in the third score.  Also, he wrote a new Insert to open the end credits in a more exciting way (this is the really cool Double Trouble variation you can only hear in the film and not on the CD).

 

 

So, TL;DR, we've got 4 "versions" of finale & end credits possibiliies

 

As originally written: 

• 7M11 A New Broomstick -> 7M12 End Credits -> Hedwig's Theme (HP1 concert arrangement, bars 130-end)

As later rewritten:

• 7M11 A New Broomstick (Revised Version) -> new End Credits intro -> 7M12 End Credits -> Hedwig's Theme (HP1 concert arrangement, bars 130-end)

The final film ultimately did: 

• 7M11 A New Broomstick (Revised Version) -> new End Credits intro -> 7M12 End Credits -> tracked section of Buckbeak’s Flight -> tracked section of ”The Snowball Fight” -> tracked section of "The Knight Bus" -> tracked section of “Double Trouble” -> tracked section of "Aunt Marge's Waltz" -> Peter Pettigrew harpsichord motif (probably tracked from "Reading The Map")

The OST album does: 

• 7M11 A New Broomstick (Revised Version) [with the opening Hedwig's Theme part chopped off] -> 7M12 End Credits -> tracked section of Buckbeak’s Flight -> tracked section of ”The Snowball Fight” -> tracked section of “Double Trouble” -> tracked section of "The Knight Bus" -> tracked section of "Aunt Marge's Waltz" -> celeste rendition of "Hedwig's Theme" (probably tracked in from somewhere) -> A final celeste note of unknown origin (sounds completely different than the rest of the Hedwig's Theme rendition)

[Faleel 5,346]

So, the LL set uses Hedwig's theme then?

[Jay 37,352]

I'm just sharing the common public knowledge that is known about this section of the score

[TSMefford 1,509]

2 minutes ago, Jay said:

I'm just sharing the common public knowledge that is known about this section of the score

 

Looking forward to new common public knowledge. XD

[Faleel 5,346]

Just now, TSMefford said:

 

Looking forward to new common public knowledge. XD

Wouldn't it technically be niche public knowledge?

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

I really hope the Hedwig credits finale was recorded and we hear it on the set, the last minute of that piece is just powerhouse Williams. He's never re-recorded it as far as I'm aware, I hope it's got some beef to it!

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

1 hour ago, crumbs said:

I'm glad Mischief Managed wasn't included on this set, just a waste of disc space. Curious to hear what Williams' original intention for the Azkaban end credits suite was. Vaguely recall reading on here that they re-recorded Harry's Wondrous World during the Azkaban sessions so maybe it's The Firebolt into the end credits opener (with film insert) into a shorter version of HWW. 

 

In the existing end credits track, there's only 4:08 of original music before tracked music takes over, leaving about 3:15 unaccounted for in this new track. Exciting! 

 

On 7/27/2018 at 10:57 AM, Jay said:

When the sheet music for Azkaban leaked, we were surprised to learn the film / album version of the end credits (Mischief Managed) is not what Williams intended.  Basically, he wrote the original finale cue ("A New Broomstick") and the first ~3 1/2 minutes of the end credits ("End Credits", which encompasses the original Double Trouble and Past Theme material - the latter of which was also duplicated on the album in the track "A Window To The Past"), which was written to segue to bars 130-end of the "Hedwig's Theme" concert arrangement (the sheet music leak includes both the sheets for just the original end credits with a handwritten note indicating such, AND a version with those bars photocopied in from the Signature Edition of the Hedwig's Theme arrangement, with the bars renumbered to match their new placement).

 

Someone clearly decided they didn't want to use Hedwig's Theme for the end credits again (we don't even know if they recorded it or not), and instead constructed a new end credits medley consisted of bits tracked in from a bunch of cues.  For the album, they followed suite and re-created almost the same medley as the film (two pieces are swapped in order compared to the film version, and Hedwig's Theme appears at the end instead of Pettigrew's Theme).

 

On top of all that, he also rewrote "A New Broomstick"; Originally it was Hedwig's Theme -> Original fanfare -> Hedwig's Theme, but the revised version added in Nimbus 2000 instead of the original music, making it only the second theme from his original score to return in the third score.  Also, he wrote a new Insert to open the end credits in a more exciting way (this is the really cool Double Trouble variation you can only hear in the film and not on the CD).

 

 

So, TL;DR, we've got 4 "versions" of finale & end credits possibiliies

 

As originally written: 

• 7M11 A New Broomstick -> 7M12 End Credits -> Hedwig's Theme (HP1 concert arrangement, bars 130-end)

As later rewritten:

• 7M11 A New Broomstick (Revised Version) -> new End Credits intro -> 7M12 End Credits -> Hedwig's Theme (HP1 concert arrangement, bars 130-end)

The final film ultimately did: 

• 7M11 A New Broomstick (Revised Version) -> new End Credits intro -> 7M12 End Credits -> tracked section of Buckbeak’s Flight -> tracked section of ”The Snowball Fight” -> tracked section of "The Knight Bus" -> tracked section of “Double Trouble” -> tracked section of "Aunt Marge's Waltz" -> Peter Pettigrew harpsichord motif (probably tracked from "Reading The Map")

The OST album does: 

• 7M11 A New Broomstick (Revised Version) [with the opening Hedwig's Theme part chopped off] -> 7M12 End Credits -> tracked section of Buckbeak’s Flight -> tracked section of ”The Snowball Fight” -> tracked section of “Double Trouble” -> tracked section of "The Knight Bus" -> tracked section of "Aunt Marge's Waltz" -> celeste rendition of "Hedwig's Theme" (probably tracked in from somewhere) -> A final celeste note of unknown origin (sounds completely different than the rest of the Hedwig's Theme rendition)

 

 

This is what I found on youtube - 

 

I think this is Williams original intent (with new Double Trouble variation in the beginning)

 

 

There's also these versions and I dunno which is which

 

 

 

[Faleel 5,346]

IIRC Those are just DVD rips where each one is sourced from different channels of the same section.

[TSMefford 1,509]

2 minutes ago, Faleel J.M. said:

IIRC Those are just DVD rips where each one is sourced from different channels of the same section.

 

Lol. I was about to say. 

[crumbs 14,306]

Yes, that section appears to be the middle of the credits track. The Firebolt is the first third and, hopefully, a slightly revised/trimmed down version of Hedwig's Theme closes it off.

 

I'm guessing the Sir Cagogan music at the end (between Lupin's Departure and The Firebolt) is actually just tracked from the earlier cue. 

[MidnightSparks 18]

I'm so excited for this. As a huge Harry Potter and John Williams fan I just had to register after years of lurking to celebrate this release, even though an unemployed fuck like me shouldn't even be thinking about putting my hands on these, especially with the dollar reaching new record highs here. I know there are ways of getting it, but it wouldn't be half the fun without supporting the people that made it happen after so many years. So excited anyway! Here's to hoping for an individual release a few years from now when I can hopefully get them!

[Holko 9,525]

Yes, it seems to be the Dufay Ensemble Cadogan piece, found on the album in Hagrid The Professor, originally underscoring the deleted scene where Cadogan takes over the Fat Lady to guard the Gryffindor Common Room. Guess Cuarón got rid of Cadogan almost entirely (he's in the background when the Fat Lady goes missing) but liked the music enough that he added the knight ghosts at the end, too?

 

Also if I recall correctly the end credits in the film doesn't have Buckbeak's Flight but the similar portion of Rescuing Sirius - it has a different ending. Or at least it transitions to it from Flight. Someone mocked up the original Firebolt, and also recreated the intended credits with Hedwig's Theme a few days ago.

 

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

12 minutes ago, MidnightSparks said:

I'm so excited for this. As a huge Harry Potter and John Williams fan I just had to register after years of lurking to celebrate this release, even though an unemployed fuck like me shouldn't even be thinking about putting my hands on these, especially with the dollar reaching new record highs here. I know there are ways of getting it, but it wouldn't be half the fun without supporting the people that made it happen after so many years. So excited anyway! Here's to hoping for an individual release a few years from now when I can hopefully get them! 

A member we didn't know existed that has been watching us for years from the shadows... 

 

[rough cut 1,714]

Those gifs! 😂😂😂

[Holko 9,525]

It's a lot more disturbing to know long-banned (with good reason) ex-members are also watching.

[crumbs 14,306]

49 minutes ago, Holko said:

Also if I recall correctly the end credits in the film doesn't have Buckbeak's Flight but the similar portion of Rescuing Sirius - it has a different ending. Or at least it transitions to it from Flight. Someone mocked up the original Firebolt, and also recreated the intended credits with Hedwig's Theme a few days ago. 

 

Correct, but that won't be on the set anyway (the end credits medley, that is). The end credits suite in this set will be Williams' original intention before they settled on Mischief Managed.

 

49 minutes ago, Holko said:

Yes, it seems to be the Dufay Ensemble Cadogan piece, found on the album in Hagrid The Professor, originally underscoring the deleted scene where Cadogan takes over the Fat Lady to guard the Gryffindor Common Room.

 

Definitely possible. I checked the deleted scenes for any new music and that was probably the only track that actually lined up. But it begs the question, if he wrote that cue for that deleted scene, what did he write for the rest of the Cadogan scenes (like the horses breaking through the glass).

 

It's unclear what constitutes that Courtyard + Cadogan track but it definitely isn't chronological (unless it's a deleted scene we didn't know was scored). My personal hope is this track has the flute source music heard in the courtyard later in the score (before Buckbeak's Fate).

[Brundlefly 2,385]

7 hours ago, redishere said:

Anyone noticed how in CoS the ending of The Dueling Club (starting at 3:03 in the OST track)

looks like a variation of Goat Bait from JP? Love that eerie string texture.

It's hard not to notice that. For a while it's the exact same notes.

[redishere 697]

1 minute ago, Brundlefly said:

It's hard not to notice that. For a while it's the exact same notes.

 

Yeah I imagined I wasn’t the only one  The first time I heard Goat Bait I was like “wait a minute...”. That could’ve been a cute mashup though:

 

S. L. Jackson saying «we’ll try to tempt the Rex now, keep watching the fence», and Harry Potter chained to a pole starts speaking Parseltongue

[crumbs 14,306]

Yeah I think that's a case of Ross ... err ... pulling from other Williams sources to fill in the blanks. If Williams composed that specifically for COS, I'd be staggered. Same as the AOTC riff.

[scallenger 483]

What's really got me curious are these tracks from Chamber of Secrets:

 

29. Television Commercial No. 1 0:38
30. Television Commercial No. 2 0:30
31. Television Commercial No. 3 1:07

 

I never knew there was original music made for any Chamber of Secrets commercials. I had always assumed all were edits.

[redishere 697]

53 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Yeah I think that's a case of Ross ... err ... pulling from other Williams sources to fill in the blanks. If Williams composed that specifically for COS, I'd be staggered. Same as the AOTC riff.

 

I don’t know, it could also be JW reworking on a discarded cue to put it to good use! As for the AOTC riff, if it’s really similar to the Quidditch chase with Malfoy, but it seems to me that those shrieky strings/winds ostinatos are a sort-of JW signature in most chase scenes (I’m thinking of the ET escape cue, for instance - even if with mordents and a different arrangement)

[TownerFan 4,983]

1 hour ago, crumbs said:

Yeah I think that's a case of Ross ... err ... pulling from other Williams sources to fill in the blanks. If Williams composed that specifically for COS, I'd be staggered. Same as the AOTC riff.

 

JW had to rewrite some stuff at the last minute. I don't think he let someone else picking random cues from other scores to "fill in the blanks". Also, there are things that are inextricably thumbprints from the composer's parts. Also in CoS, there is a section in "The Dueling Club" which is very similar to a passage of "Hook's Lesson".

 

 

 

Again, I think it's more a fact of Williams' penchant for a certain kind of musical gesture.

[bollemanneke 3,342]

Why do we think Williams re-recorded either Hedwig's Theme or HWW for HP3? Couldn't they just use the existing recordings?

[redishere 697]

All things considered, it feels nice to have some interesting discussions to kill time with while we wait for the HP collection.
By the way, 33-ish hours to absolute mayhem.

I've already saved my Paypal password and address to order as fast as I possibly can.

On a side note, I realized I'm going to see PoA in concert exactly one month after ordering the boxset.

If delivery isn't delayed, I'm sure I'll know the entire score by heart by the time I'm sitting in that theatre and the WB logo appears.

 

“Lumos Maxima!”
— Insert wand whistling sound here —

[Incanus 5,714]

31 minutes ago, TownerFan said:

 

JW had to rewrite some stuff at the last minute. I don't think he let someone else picking random cues from other scores to "fill in the blanks". Also, there are things that are inextricably thumbprints from the composer's parts. Also in CoS, there is a section in "The Dueling Club" which is very similar to a passage of "Hook's Lesson".

 

 

 

Again, I think it's more a fact of Williams' penchant for a certain kind of musical gesture.

Not to mention Gilderoy's theme resembling No Ticket from The Last Crusade.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

1 hour ago, bollemanneke said:

Why do we think Williams re-recorded either Hedwig's Theme or HWW for HP3? Couldn't they just use the existing recordings?

 

Good question, it’s mainly because of the sheet music. The portion of Hedwig’s theme that was intended to be used for the credits is present in the orchestral score itself so it seems likely that it was intended to be recorded in the session. It’s also not really easy to track in that portion smoothly - I can tell you this because I did that mock-up of the end credits with “A New Broomstick” last week and there’s no easy way to mix it in with what was intended without it sounding weird.

 

As far as HWW goes, I personally don’t believe it was ever even considered for the credits let alone recorded. There doesn’t seem to be any evidence pointing to its existence beyond rumour.

[crumbs 14,306]

Yeah, no disrespect to Ross but the blatant similarities to non-Potter tracks from Hook, TLC, JP and AOTC are surely too coincidental to have come from Williams' pencil. I just can't imagine him being so shamelessly lazy, even with the lack of time.

 

IMO Williams would write faster doing something completely new rather than rewrite something he already wrote with subtle changes.

[Arpy 4,145]

I wouldn't be so sure, Williams continues to lift portions of his own work, recently with The Post and The Last Jedi...

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Finn’s Confession!!

[Incanus 5,714]

1 hour ago, crumbs said:

Yeah, no disrespect to Ross but the blatant similarities to non-Potter tracks from Hook, TLC, JP and AOTC are surely too coincidental to have come from Williams' pencil. I just can't imagine him being so shamelessly lazy, even with the lack of time.

 

IMO Williams would write faster doing something completely new rather than rewrite something he already wrote with subtle changes.

I think Williams was pressed for time and as Maurizio says above did lean on his own stylings quite heavily to get the job done on time on CoS which explains the stylistic similarities and quotations from his older material whether temp track inspired or just leaning on his older material. And something like Quidditch 2nd Year and Lucious Malfoy material are obviously mirroring Williams' headspace around the time as he had scored Episode II just a few months prior to the Potter assignment. All four scores from 2002 share certain musical DNA with each other or stylistically bleed into each other a bit.

[crumbs 14,306]

Yeah but it's so strange that he would lean so heavily on a cue from a score he wrote a decade prior. It's practically the same, to the point that it sounds like he just pulled out older cues from his shelf and transcribed them with minor changes.

[publicist 4,643]

He did the same in Home Alone 2, ironically the blueprint for most of these 'Dickensian' scores that came after. All those mickey mousing cues in HA 2 do exactly the kind of note-twirling described above.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Finn’s Confession....

[Chewy 2,388]

Guys, Finn's Confession...

[crocodile 8,006]

What about Finn's Confession? He did the same thing in that one.

 

Karol

[crumbs 14,306]

Surprised nobody's mentioned Finn's Confession.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

What about it?

[crumbs 14,306]

He reused the same 4 notes! What a hack!

[Disco Stu 15,495]

1 minute ago, crumbs said:

What a hack!

 

I'm glad we got to the bottom of this.  Last one out, please turn the lights off.

[Bilbo 3,709]

So that’s it? After 12 years it’s just good luck? 

[Richard Penna 3,686]

11 hours ago, Jay said:

 

No, but a new recording of it was used on COS when they return to Diagon Alley!

 

I think that one was appropriate because by the second film we're past the 'wonder' of discovering Diagon Alley and it now does feel like returning to an old-English marketplace.

 

But when it's first revealed to Harry and the audience, it needed something more colourful and mystical. Nothing about the original composition does that - the transition from the brick-moving section is pretty understated really.

 

This moment and the 'First Night' are two reasons I think Columbus' tracking in this film is very well judged. I don't think there's much to indicate, either editorially or creatively, that what we hear in the film wasn't the original intention.

 

Certainly, when I get my set, high on my list of tasks (slightly below the 'OMFG!' feeling) is to recreate those two film edits.

[Jay 37,352]

5 hours ago, scallenger said:

What's really got me curious are these tracks from Chamber of Secrets:

 

29. Television Commercial No. 1 0:38
30. Television Commercial No. 2 0:30
31. Television Commercial No. 3 1:07

 

I never knew there was original music made for any Chamber of Secrets commercials. I had always assumed all were edits.

 

We never knew either until all of a sudden there they were!  Just wait till you hear them, they are GREAT arrangements!

[Richard Penna 3,686]

Do you think all of these extras/commercials/trailer tracks would have been included if WB had done this set themselves?

 

I know it depends on the producer, but that producer is taking direction from someone, right?

[Jay 37,352]

I doubt many other producers besides Mike would have made sure to track down all those

[Incanus 5,714]

8 minutes ago, Jay said:

I doubt many other producers besides Mike would have made sure to track down all those

I was so happy to note that the original HPPS teaser trailer music is on this set. I still remember seeing and hearing that one for the first time and thinking how wonderful piece it was. 

[Richard Penna 3,686]

By the way, this quote is from around this time in 2013:

 

Quote

If anyone has a chance with Star Wars its Intrada.

As for the rest, LOTR is pretty much taken care of. Bond is still up in the air (a matter I hope we can resolve in the near future..at least on SOME titles). Potter is so close I can taste it. 

As for Matrix, its just a matter of artwork approval at WB (and, as you know, that can take some time).

 

(from this thread: http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/23925-expanded-harry-potter-albums-in-the-works/)

 

 

 

So that's at least 5 years it has taken for Potter, and I guess for Bond too.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

3 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

By the way, this quote is from around this time in 2013:

 

 

So that's at least 5 years is has taken for Potter, and I guess for Bond too.

 

Whose quote is that?