Harry Potter 7CD Collection - MUSIC discussion

[Josh500 1,615]

1 minute ago, Faleel J.M. said:

When did Ross become the new Pope?

 

I mean to conduct. 😂 

[bollemanneke 3,343]

10 hours ago, Jay said:

 

The only difference with "Introducing Colin" and "Fawkes Heals Harry" is that the OST album happened to use different takes than the film did, so Mike included them in the bonus track to be 100% complete with regards to what was available on the OST.  Every single other cue used the same takes on the OST as the film did and we don't know why those two were different.

 

Either version of Filch's Warning is "pointless", really, as its just a tiny bit of Norwegian Ridgeback from HP1 either way, but it was recorded once at a short length (which was in the recording session leak) and once at a longer length (which was in the film) so we included both to be comprehensive.

 

I can't imagine why you'd think Follow The Spiders is "a lot less interesting" when it is 100% identical to the version in the main program until the end, which is the cooler original ending that was originally written and recorded, as opposed to the final version used in the film (and the main LLL program and the recording session leak) which omits the fun looping bit to just fade out instead.

 

I'm not sure how Car Drives Off Alternate could go into the main program, when the version used is already in the main program.  You'd want the alternate and the used version to appear back to back like that?

 

The alternate Prologue, the cool Petrified Colin original ending, and the television commercials are indeed the highlights of the HP2 bonus tracks, no doubt.  The version of Christmas Break in the bonus tracks is the same version we had in the session leak that was also the version used in the film;  It's the main program version of Christmas Break that is new, that's the full long version as written and recorded that was used in the extended cut of the film.

Well, I just meant that the alternate Follow The Spiders didn't really sound interesting. I did notice the longer ending, but... just nothing special, though it's good it's here, of course.

 

As for Car Drives Off (Alternate), you're right, it couldn't have been in the main program, but I just think this great alternate segment is rather weird all on its own, you barely have time to start enjoying it.

[Arpy 4,145]

The openings of both versions of Fawkes Heals Harry are identical and probably from the same take as I can hear the same blips in the background.

[Once 605]

PoA is a big departure from the first two films, so it makes sense the music follows the new aesthetics. While most of the themes were abandoned, I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t all be gone for good if Williams had composed all eight films. Case I’m point; he would probably have used Myrtle’s theme in GoF and I doubt Mike Newell would even notice. Certainly with Yates directing the last four, there would’ve been continuity between those.

[mstrox 6,651]

The Children's Suite is something really special!

 

On first listen of SS, having never heard anything but the OST at this point, there were a good few standout cues that add some color to what has already been released.  There are even more cues which sound kind of samey to me - but this has never been my all-time favorite Williams score, so I wasn't expecting anything revolutionary.  With the Children's Suite and a small handful of other cues I really took note of, I'll call the expansion of HPSS an overall improvement on the OST. 

[Jay 37,352]

I think "Harry Gets His Wand", "Hagrid’s Flashback", "Fighting the Troll", and "The Dark Forest" are ESSENTIAL editions to the score.

[mstrox 6,651]

I've only been glancing down at my iPod occasionally as I work, so I don't remember all the track titles, but Harry Gets His Wand was definitely one I noticed as an exciting addition.

[Jay 37,352]

Both it and Hagrid's Flashback setup Voldemort's Theme brilliantly, which is otherwise only heard in the Quidditch Match, The Dark Forest and then The Face of Voldemort, so it's a bummer the OST only included his theme in the Quidditch Match and Face of Voldemort tracks

[TownerFan 4,983]

7 minutes ago, Jay said:

I think "Harry Gets His Wand", "Hagrid’s Flashback", "Fighting the Troll", and "The Dark Forest" are ESSENTIAL editions to the score.

 

Listened to the first two discs today—I wholeheartedly agree. I would also add “Through the Doors” as another essential addition.

[Jay 37,352]

That would have been the fifth track I mentioned!

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

12 minutes ago, TownerFan said:

  

Listened to the first two discs today—I wholeheartedly agree. I would also add “Through the Doors” as another essential addition.

 

I think that is huge miss and it always shocked me that they left that off the soundtrack. It is used to staggering effect twice in the movies and is a very popular and memorable cue. And Willams left it off the OST!

 

I think the Gyrfindor winning the house cup also contains of the best statements of the friendship theme. Reunion of Friends essentially rehashes that but the original Gryfindor wins the cup in PS was the first with a warm horn led statement that conveyed the majesty of the theme. I think that theme is otherwise only memorably stated at the end of Quidditch when Harry catches the Snitch and then HWW which is a concert suite.

[TownerFan 4,983]

3 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

I think the Gyrfindor winning the house cup also contains of the best statements of the friendship theme. Reunion of Friends essentially rehashes that but the original Gryfindor wins the cup in PS was the first with a warm horn led statement that conveyed the majesty of the theme.

 

Oh, absolutely, that is another essential

addition. That cue is one of my absolute favourite from this score, especially the noble, almost Elgar-ian string writing. The omission was rendered a tad less sour only because it was reprised almost verbatim on the finale of Chamber of Secrets. But I too prefer the recording and performance of the firet film.

[mrbellamy 6,285]

The lack of “Through the Doors” was an even more traumatizing hazing experience for me as a new film score fan since both of those scenes were listed in the track titles! It took awhile for me to appreciate “Diagon Alley” for what it was.

[Incanus 5,714]

This might have been discussed here before  but what is the story with the Hedwig's Theme for harp? Was it meant to be used in the film or was it just another piece Williams envisioned as part of writing the score in the spirit of the Children's Suite or a candidate for the OST album? My first thought was that it might have been some alternate draft for the Fluffy's harp sequence although runs shorter than the final version with its unique theme.

[Jay 37,352]

I have no idea what it was recorded for >shrug<

[TownerFan 4,983]

5 minutes ago, Incanus said:

This might have been discussed here before  but what is the story with the Hedwig's Theme for harp? Was it meant to be used in the film or was it just another piece Williams envisioned as part of writing the score in the spirit of the Children's Suite or a candidate for the OST album? My first thought was that it might have been some alternate draft for the Fluffy's harp sequence although runs shorter than the final version with its unique theme.

 

I suppose it was something JW decided to record since he had a fantastic harpist available (Skaila Kanga), so he might have prepared it for possible inclusion on the OST album, but ended up on the cutting room floor.

[Datameister 2,042]

It's a puzzling track indeed. Considering how the team did decide to give an in-universe diegetic nod to Hedwig's theme ("Hagrid Plays the Flute"), it wouldn't surprise me if it were created as another option for Fluffy's harp in the film.

[Jay 37,352]

I think it would have been weird if the kids arrived at the room towards the end of the film and the harp was playing Hedwig's Theme.  It was smart to write original music for it

 

The Hagrid's Flute bit is at least subtle enough many people probably don't recognize it on first viewing

[Incanus 5,714]

14 minutes ago, Datameister said:

It's a puzzling track indeed. Considering how the team did decide to give an in-universe diegetic nod to Hedwig's theme ("Hagrid Plays the Flute"), it wouldn't surprise me if it were created as another option for Fluffy's harp in the film.

Exactly. Although as Jay says it might have been too on the nose use of the main theme in-world in the film.

 

Now that I have the set and had some time to listen to it, I have to say this is one of my top favourite John Williams expansions ever. So much wonderful music and so much commitment and effort and love is audible in these almost 8 hours of music. While Williams is always hard working and professional all the effort put into the music of Harry Potter makes it fee like the Maestro had a special feel and connection with this particular story, a bit like he feels somewhat a custodian of the Star Wars legacy through his music. But also it is obvious Williams saw all the inherent musical possibilities in a story such as this and was engrossed in it all. Even when Cuarón wanted a change of direction, the composer quickly adapted to the new approach and gave it his all, in a very literal sense as the score is such a collection of eclectic stylistic impulses.

[mstrox 6,651]

I'd assume it was an album recording, or maybe an idea for the Children's Suite that got replaced by the other harp track.

[mrbellamy 6,285]

35 minutes ago, Jay said:

I think it would have been weird if the kids arrived at the room towards the end of the film and the harp was playing Hedwig's Theme.  It was smart to write original music for it

 

The Hagrid's Flute bit is at least subtle enough many people probably don't recognize it on first viewing

 

Agree, it would stick out more since the harp is so prominent. Also they could afford a cutesy 4th wall break in the Hagrid scene since the atmosphere is just the day-to-day of Hogwarts, whereas with Fluffy, you want to be held in suspense at that point. Having a more anonymous source piece makes it feel more immersive.

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

38 minutes ago, Incanus said:

Exactly. Although as Jay says it might have been too on the nose use of the main theme in-world in the film.

  

Now that I have the set and had some time to listen to it, I have to say this is one of my top favourite John Williams expansions ever. So much wonderful music and so much commitment and effort and love is audible in these almost 8 hours of music. While Williams is always hard working and professional all the effort put into the music of Harry Potter makes it fee like the Maestro had a special feel and connection with this particular story, a bit like he feels somewhat a custodian of the Star Wars legacy through his music. But also it is obvious Williams saw all the inherent musical possibilities in a story such as this and was engrossed in it all. Even when Cuarón wanted a change of direction, the composer quickly adapted to the new approach and gave it his all, in a very literal sense as the score is such a collection of eclectic stylistic impulses.

 

Even more than that - I think Williams saw an opportunity to truly flex his muscles with Harry Potter. I think the first 2 films, the first film specially is a composer's dream. A composer can really show off of what they can do. A long film with several dialog free sections so that your music has the opportunity to take center stage. A kinda unreservedly old-fashioned populist film meaning nobody would scoff at a densely orchestrated symphonic score. And most of all a director who would accommodate a big busy score and allow the composer to get the limelight. Most directors are egotistical assholes who want all their tricks and sound to dominate the film. I think Chris Columbus was more than happy for the score to drive most of the scenes than any fancy direction. Infact directorially, the first two films are almost conspicuously tame. Just standard blocking and filming which leaves so much room for the music to transform every single scene.

 

And Williams took the opportunity and wrote one of his most expansive scores ever with theme upon theme upon theme, several set-pieces and really ornate elaborate orchestration.

[bollemanneke 3,343]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

I think it would have been weird if the kids arrived at the room towards the end of the film and the harp was playing Hedwig's Theme.  It was smart to write original music for it

 

The Hagrid's Flute bit is at least subtle enough many people probably don't recognize it on first viewing

I've always found Hagrid playing Hedwig's theme really, really weird. He just wouldn't do that, the people in the magical world aren't supposed to know this music.

[Datameister 2,042]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

I think it would have been weird if the kids arrived at the room towards the end of the film and the harp was playing Hedwig's Theme.  It was smart to write original music for it

 

The Hagrid's Flute bit is at least subtle enough many people probably don't recognize it on first viewing

 

Definitely agreed. I don't at all mind the brief Hagrid source cue, but I'm glad that original music was written for Fluffy's harp.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

3 hours ago, Jay said:

I think "Harry Gets His Wand", "Hagrid’s Flashback", "Fighting the Troll", and "The Dark Forest" are ESSENTIAL editions to the score.

That is basically the four most important additions. But there are other cues that would have been substantial, if they hadn't been released on the OST of CoS already (for example A "The Stone" / B "Gryffindor Wins the House Cup" being less exciting as we already had A "Meeting Tom Riddle" / B "Reunion of Friends").

 

3 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

I think that is huge miss and it always shocked me that they left that off the soundtrack. It is used to staggering effect twice in the movies and is a very popular and memorable cue. And Willams left it off the OST!

I didn't even notice that it wasn't on the OST, because it was so familiar solely from the film.

[Demodex 557]

I finally listened to most of POA.  My only complaint is having the clock tick through the vast majority of the Saving Buckbeak cues. So annoying!!

 

Is the bat scene at the end of that track?

[Jay 37,352]

Yes. 

[JohnnyD 1,223]

Didn’t the Maestro compose and conduct Time Past / Saving Buckbeak with the ticking clock in mind to represent time? It was obviously recorded as an overlay. It does not hinder the music at all; if anything, it blends pretty well.

[Datameister 2,042]

The ticking was definitely part of Williams' plan for some of the time travel music, though the film does use it in some places where it didn't seem to be originally intended. I haven't yet fully studies that section, though. (Emphasis on "yet"!)

 

Personally, I have mixed feelings on the ticking. It's a really cool musical device in the cues that bookend the time travel...in the cues in the middle, I tend to find it musically extraneous, but at the same time, in the film, it does help remind you that what we're seeing is in the past.

[Josh500 1,615]

7 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

Infact directorially, the first two films are almost conspicuously tame. Just standard blocking and filming which leaves so much room for the music to transform every single scene.

 

 

I agree with everything you said in the long post above, except this one statement.

 

Chris Columbus is arguably one of the most talented directors, he is one of the best! His techniques are mostly invisible, meaning they're not obviously fancy and conspicuous and show-offy, but it's there, if you know where to look. He consistently brings the best out of the actors' performances, his editing is razor sharp, his story telling ability (for this kind of happy end film) is almost second to none. To understand only a portion of what's going on in his head while directing, listen sometime to his audio commentary of Mrs. Doubtfire! I was blown away! It's no coincidence that he directed 5 of the most successful and unforgettable movies in cinema history (when there are literally thousands of directors shooting movies every year). Also, of course, as we know from the Harry Potter and Home Alone movies, he knows how to use the music for the best effect better than most directors. 

 

I think most people greatly underestimate Chris Columbus's talent and abilities as a director, because he generally avoids fancy shots like Spielberg (or in this case Cuaron)!  

 

 

[Demodex 557]

7 minutes ago, Datameister said:

 in the film, it does help remind you that what we're seeing is in the past.

 

I don't even remember it being in the film after they leave the hospital. 

[TSMefford 1,509]

12 minutes ago, Datameister said:

The ticking was definitely part of Williams' plan for some of the time travel music, though the film does use it in some places where it didn't seem to be originally intended. I haven't yet fully studies that section, though. (Emphasis on "yet"!)

 

Personally, I have mixed feelings on the ticking. It's a really cool musical device in the cues that bookend the time travel...in the cues in the middle, I tend to find it musically extraneous, but at the same time, in the film, it does help remind you that what we're seeing is in the past.

 

Yup! I have studied it pretty extensively. Painstakingly recreated the film edit. There are at least 2-3 sections in "Reviewing the Recent Past" and "Viewing the Recent Past" that have the ticking in the film where it is not present on the LLL version. The of course Saving Buckbeak has zero ticking in the film.

[crumbs 14,308]

 

[TSMefford 1,509]

1 hour ago, crumbs said:

 

These are great!

[Brundlefly 2,385]

5 hours ago, Josh500 said:

I agree with everything you said in the long post above, except this one statement.

 

Chris Columbus is arguably one of the most talented directors, he is one of the best! His techniques are mostly invisible, meaning they're not obviously fancy and conspicuous and show-offy, but it's there, if you know where to look. He consistently brings the best out of the actors' performances, his editing is razor sharp, his story telling ability (for this kind of happy end film) is almost second to none. To understand only a portion of what's going on in his head while directing, listen sometime to his audio commentary of Mrs. Doubtfire! I was blown away! It's no coincidence that he directed 5 of the most successful and unforgettable movies in cinema history (when there are literally thousands of directors shooting movies every year). Also, of course, as we know from the Harry Potter and Home Alone movies, he knows how to use the music for the best effect better than most directors. 

 

I think most people greatly underestimate Chris Columbus's talent and abilities as a director, because he generally avoids fancy shots like Spielberg (or in this case Cuaron)!

Actually, it's you who greatly overestimates Chris Columbus' talent and abilities as a director.

[Josh500 1,615]

1 hour ago, Brundlefly said:

Actually, it's you who greatly overestimates Chris Columbus' talent and abilities as a director.

 

No. You don't like him or his movies, fine. Don't accuse me of overestimating him when I'm saying that I can see his massive talent.

 

Home Alone, Home Alone 2, Mrs. Doubtfire, Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone, Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets, Stepmom... As well as Gremlins, Gremlins 2, The Goonies, Night at the Museum. 

 

They're all exceptionally well shot and/or written, and are quality movies that became smash hits ... Some people are incapable of appreciating this fact, probably because his movies aren't especially profound or deep. That's a fact. But that's fine. To each his own!

[Brundlefly 2,385]

I like his movies. Outstanding as a director he is not at all. According to what you wrote, you overestimate him a lot. Although he depicted the moon landing very well in the 60s!

[Josh500 1,615]

11 minutes ago, Brundlefly said:

I like his movies. Outstanding as a director he is not at all. According to what you wrote, you overestimate him a lot. 

 

Again, to each his own. Some people just can't see it. That's OK.

 

11 minutes ago, Brundlefly said:

Although he depicted the moon landing very well in the 60s!

 

What?

 

Spare me such comments. I don't get your German sense of humour! 😂 

[Mr. Who 919]

@JayIs Lumos (film version) another take (the take that was used in the film) of the OST cue?

[crumbs 14,308]

So I think I've just discovered something nobody else has pointed out yet. The last 45 seconds of Befriending the Hippogriff is an alternate ending of the same cue!

 

Ultimately the film used neither version, instead tracking in music from the start of the cue.

 

Cue is actually Bonding with the Hippogriff, intended after Buckbeak's Flight.

 

 

[crumbs 14,308]

[bollemanneke 3,343]

2 hours ago, crumbs said:

So I think I've just discovered something nobody else has pointed out yet. The last 45 seconds of Befriending the Hippogriff is an alternate ending of the same cue!

 

Ultimately the film used neither version, instead tracking in music from the start of the cue.

 

 

No, I think Jay wrote earlier that it's meant to underscore Buckbeak and Harry's brief scene after Malfoy got attacked.

[TSMefford 1,509]

2 hours ago, crumbs said:

So I think I've just discovered something nobody else has pointed out yet. The last 45 seconds of Befriending the Hippogriff is an alternate ending of the same cue!

 

Ultimately the film used neither version, instead tracking in music from the start of the cue.

 

 

 

I actually did ask Jay about it. It’s not an alternate ending. It turns out it’s a separate cue called Bonding With Hippogriff for the scene immediately after Buckbeaks Flight.

3 hours ago, Mr. Who said:

@JayIs Lumos (film version) another take (the take that was used in the film) of the OST cue?

 

Seems so to me. It’s a different tempo than the one on the OST.

[Jay 37,352]

3 hours ago, Mr. Who said:

@JayIs Lumos (film version) another take (the take that was used in the film) of the OST cue?

 

Yup, Lumos was a different take (or assembly of takes) on the album than the take (or assembly of takes) used in the film, so Mike included it in the bonus tracks to be comprehensive.  Compositionally there are no differences.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, crumbs said:

So I think I've just discovered something nobody else has pointed out yet. The last 45 seconds of Befriending the Hippogriff is an alternate ending of the same cue!

 

Ultimately the film used neither version, instead tracking in music from the start of the cue.

 

 

On 12/15/2018 at 12:47 PM, Jay said:

The music at the end of "Befriending the Hippogriff" is an unused cue called "Bonding with the Hippogriff" that was intended to be used after "Buckbeak's Flight", but dropped from the final film.

[Demodex 557]

How does Jay know so much?  Honestly curious. 

 

Can someone please point out where exactly Sirius Black's theme appears?  Thanks. 

[Holko 9,525]

3 minutes ago, Demodex said:

How does Jay know so much?  Honestly curious. 

 

 

Day 1, dude.

On 11/23/2018 at 10:14 AM, Jay said:

 

 

I was a Project Consultant on this release.  It's my first real credit, and first paying gig in the field, actually.  If anyone was wondering why I stopped posting as frequently this spring, this is why.  Mike and I worked our butts off to make this set as good as it could possibly be.

 

And yes, one thing I did was proof-read the (many!) liner notes

[Jay 37,352]

7 minutes ago, Demodex said:

How does Jay know so much?  Honestly curious. 

 

I assisted Mike as he was building the albums

 

Quote

Can someone please point out where exactly Sirius Black's theme appears?  Thanks. 

 

It's sort of a slightly different melody every time, but basically Discussing Black, The Grim, Quidditch Third Year, Confrontation in the Shrieking Shack

[bollemanneke 3,343]

Just made an interesting discovery. In the Defense Against The Dark Arts DVD game, they use Double Trouble March as well... and you can hear it twice there too! Seems it really was recorded that way. Only a shame the LLL set doesn't have a clean opening...

[Mr. Who 919]

On 12/29/2018 at 3:33 AM, TSMefford said:

 

 

Most likely it’s Magic Box Music / Brand X Music. A trailer music company responsible for many custom trailer jobs across the HP series. Personally, if more expansions happen, I hope some of their work for Half Blood Prince gets released.

Some HP6 trailer music has already been released, although not the "trailer" version:

 

[crumbs 14,308]

2 hours ago, TSMefford said:

 

I actually did ask Jay about it. It’s not an alternate ending. It turns out it’s a separate cue called Bonding With Hippogriff for the scene immediately after Buckbeaks Flight.

 

Doh! Must have missed your post. Surprised how well it fits as an alternate ending. 

 

I'll have to revise the video and see how it fits over the latter scene.