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Harry Potter 7CD Collection - MUSIC discussion


Jay

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25 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

It's up to the rightholders to decide what to give away for free, not you or me.

 

Yes, my point was that probably 99% of the John Williams music videos on YouTube aren't officially sanctioned.

 

Ultimately everyone here wants the same thing. We want to see Williams' music released legitimately under the auspices of a masterful producer like Mike. We're all happy to pay a premium price for it because we know profitable labels keep the releases flowing.

 

And as @Holko corroborated with that embarrassing EU study on piracy, despite having two of the Williams Potter scores widely available for years before LLL's release, it hasn't deterred us from forking out hundreds of dollars to buy the same scores properly remastered and assembled. Not only does it reward the labels/composer/rights holders for endorsing expansions but it encourage further releases.

 

The reality is that anyone obsessed enough with Williams to bother downloading his recording sessions wouldn't pass up a properly mastered, lossless Matessino expansion of said score. Session leaks are merely a "stopgap" until Mike can assemble the score properly.

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6 hours ago, Gurkensalat said:

 

@Jay, I dońt want to nag too much about this, but if you could perhaps shed light on the matter, why it was decided to hamper the dynamic range so much, I would be grateful. I mean, I know that some compression is often deemed necessary, but I think in this case it has been turned on far too much. Was a box like this really made for customers with no interest in quality hi-fi playback? I am really puzzled. 

 

Hamper the dynamic range?  Not sure what you're on about mate.  It sounds fine to me.

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2 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

Don't know if this has already has been discussed, so... If the movie hadn't dialed out the opening seconds of Harry's Wish, would there have been a pause between Letters and Harry's wish? Or is it meant to be one piece of music?

 

I don't think they were written to overlap, musically it wouldn't sound very good if they did I don't think

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I tried syncing the music up to the film, but if you do that, the family theme still starts much earlier in the movie than in the score, so that's why I was guessing JW did write it as one piece and the cut he scored had a longer establishing shot of the Dursleys' hut or something.

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41 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

Hamper the dynamic range?  Not sure what you're on about mate.  It sounds fine to me.

 

As I said, try listening to the Troll fight at the end of Disc 1 for a minute or so (it is played very loudly, full force), and then switch to the beginning of track 1 or 2 which is played very softly, but sounds almost as loud. 

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@Josh500 I've never had any reason to be pissed off with you, but are you insinuating that I don't care about illegal downloading, or piracy? I don't believe it should be illegal to download or listen to music that has been freely shared, no matter the source. I do believe though, that the true illegal actions are committed by those who leaked or first distributed the material. Now, I only download content that I know I can't get through ordinary methods: music that will unlikely ever be released in any official capacity, but when it is made available I eagerly seek that material out and purchase it full price. Most of my music collection is actually physical. My remarks earlier about the sound of this set compared to the bootlegs was a personal quibble that barely warranted any attention, I was only sharing sentiments with @Gurkensalat and then I made a little remark that I'm quite possibly suffering from hearing loss too.

 

If you cared so deeply about pirating or antipirating why don't you remove yourself from this forum which for the past decade or so has openly discussed material that has been leaked, pirated, unofficially made available etc. 

 

It's not a bad thing to discuss music from am illegal source, but looking down on your fellow forum members for the idea alone is. Let's just get past this and get back to Potter music discussion!

 

 

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2 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Oh, I meant for the other guy. :D

 

Ok, as „the other guy“ I really did not want to start a discussion about boots, but about sound quality. And since I bought the set (I always buy the commercial available release, when it is released, if I got something from a not official source), I do not see that I am doing anything morally doubtful. My actions do not lead to any monetary loss for anybody, so i definitely do not steal from anybody. The latter were the case, if I would download boots instead of buying them, but this is not my mode of operations. So I really do not understand your issue in this case.

 

And by the way, there is no such thing as karma... 🙂

 

 

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4 hours ago, Josh500 said:

 

To be fair, this isn't about anybody's "mindset." The law states clearly what is legal and what is illegal...

 

Still, it's tolerated, I guess, as long as the loss isn't huge. 

 

Sigh. I was clearly referring to the moral part of the argument, not the legal part of the argument. 

 

But no matter...lets get back to discussing this wonderful, legal release and off this topic that is just sending everyone into a frenzy.

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8 minutes ago, Gurkensalat said:

 

No, definetly not.  I would  not have any problem  with that if I where a composer.

 

What abot the issue of presentation? The leaked session probably doesn't present the music in the way the composer would have preferred.

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5 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

What abot the issue of presentation? The leaked session probably doesn't present the music in the way the composer would have preferred.

They should have released a good OST.

 

Take Titanic for example. The OSTs were terrible so if some unofficial material came out or if people made edits then that is fine in my opinion. Now we got a great LLL edition, which I bought, so maybe not a relevant example but still.

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Or a proper complete archival release not decades in the unforeseeable future - LotR came very close to the ideal case with the OSTs+CRs.

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@Arpy

To be honest, I really have no idea what  you're referring to. Looking back, my last comment to you was this, and this was really just meant as a friendly advice because you complained about your hearing? No more, no less. No hidden slight or insult.

 

5 hours ago, Josh500 said:

Why don't you listen to music you've owned a long time and see if it sounds different now?

 

As to what's illegal and legal in terms of bootlegs, I made my opinion on this matter clear. But here I wasn't talking to you especially, whether you agree with me or not!

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10 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

What abot the issue of presentation? The leaked session probably doesn't present the music in the way the composer would have preferred.

The mastered sets that were done by a member on the forum that shan't be named presented them quite close to how these official sets are!

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19 minutes ago, Alex said:

Could anyone give me a time stamp of what music originally appears in the Bats scene? 

 

That's what the track "Saving Buckbeak" on the OST album ends with!

 

Not sure of the exact timestamp. 

1 hour ago, Arpy said:

@Josh500 

 

If you cared so deeply about pirating or antipirating why don't you remove yourself from this forum which for the past decade or so has openly discussed material that has been leaked, pirated, unofficially made available etc. 

 

It's not a bad thing to discuss music from am illegal source, but looking down on your fellow forum members for the idea alone is. 

 

You really shouldn't be so sensitive and take it so personally! I can express my opinion, and I did. In my opinion, bootlegs and leaks etc. are illegal, and I personally don't feel comfortable listening to them and I don't. If you feel differently, that's fine, too. Many people here do. I don't "look down on you" because of it! 

 

We're all here to discuss the music itself, so let's! 

 

 

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41 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

What abot the issue of presentation? The leaked session probably doesn't present the music in the way the composer would have preferred.

What IS it with people and presentations? Why can't a film score be presented as C&C all the time? Film scores aren't Beethoven symphonies, I'm sorry. Composers should know that.

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8 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Film scores aren't Beethoven symphonies, I'm sorry. Composers should know that.

 

Exactly! Beethoven symphonies (or most symphonies, for that matter) have always four movements in a set order, and that's it! There's only one way to present it!

 

Film scores, however, is a different matter entirely! You can present it any way you want to. That's why it's so interesting! :D

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6 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Well, unchronological presentations generally really irritate me because I know what the next cue I should expect is.

 

If it's completely and randomly out of order, it irritates me too, but if there's a certain logic behind it and it serves the listening experience... Then why not? 

 

Cases in point:

 

The Phantom Menace, the album presentation was rather irritating (though the music is phenomenonal!).

 

Jurassic Park, the album presentation was rather good! Fantastic, even. It's like listening to a 74 minute long work of art! When the music is this good, you don't even need the dinos! 😂 

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11 minutes ago, Josh500 said:

Jurassic Park, the album presentation was rather good! Fantastic, even. It's like listening to a 74 minute long work of art! When the music is this good, you don't even need the dinos! 😂 

 

It really is a standout OST!

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5 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

It really is a standout OST!

 

Come to think of it, so is Schindler's List, but of course that's more or less complete! 

 

I just realized something what should be so obvious! The more complete an OST album is, the good the presentation appears. Well, duh. If one hour of music or more is missing, everybody starts getting restless and whiny and complains about the "presentation"! 😂 

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29 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

 Film scores aren't Beethoven symphonies, I'm sorry. Composers should know that.

 

Exactly, they aren't written to entertain listeners as a standalone entity, often times with stretches of music that supports the film they're primarily designed to do,  but musically isn't very interesting; stuff that composers wouldn't want audiences to judge their musical abilities on, it's embarrassing.

 

Oh wait, that's not what you were getting at? ;)

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Unfortunately I haven't seen PoA for the longest period, only had 1, 2 and 4 on DVD (had 3 on VHS loaned from a friend a number of times, couldn't transfer it to DVD then we modernised), so I've rediscovered it in the last 2-3 years when I could appreciate what great filmmaking it actually is.

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1 hour ago, Nick Parker said:

 

Exactly, they aren't written to entertain listeners as a standalone entity, often times with stretches of music that supports the film they're primarily designed to do,  but musically isn't very interesting; stuff that composers wouldn't want audiences to judge their musical abilities on, it's embarrassing.

 

Oh wait, that's not what you were getting at? ;)

But if I want to waste my time listening to 'uninteresting music', that's my problem. No one needs to take that decision for me.

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Just now, bollemanneke said:

But if I want to waste my time listening to 'uninteresting music', that's my problem. No one needs to take that decision for me.

 

Sure, it's your right to listen to whatever you want to, but conversely, it's also the right of the composer if they want to build or maintain a reputation by choosing what to release or what not to. You use the word "waste": whether it's right or wrong is immaterial--Henry Mancini immensely regretted the way he presented his musical abilities on his soundtrack albums--ultimately the right of choice is theirs to make. 

 

I say all of this with the caveat that the composer is not always the captain of the ship behind these decisions. 

 

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I sort of understand your point, but you're making it sound as though people only know about/enjoy composers' music through their albums. My appreciation for every film composer came about when watching their films, I never went: 'Hmm, John Williams, what would he be like?' in a store. And the moment I hear a film score, I expect any cue I like to be available separately, just like a song you hear on the radio.

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It's sort of surprising that digital C&C releases aren't more of a thing. Just throwing everything up on iTunes. I wouldn't know what the obstacles would be for that, or if they just figure there's no interest.

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23 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

I sort of understand your point, but you're making it sound as though people only know about/enjoy composers' music through their albums. My appreciation for every film composer came about when watching their films, I never went: 'Hmm, John Williams, what would he be like?' in a store. And the moment I hear a film score, I expect any cue I like to be available separately, just like a song you hear on the radio.

 

Probably most of us discovered these film composers, were drawn to them through the films themselves, that's true. But what you're talking about is not my point, although it's telling that you constantly compare film scores to standalone conduits of music (not that that's a bad thing). It might sound as if I'm repeating my original point here, but sure, you can expect a certain cue you hear in a film presented on an album...but what obligation does the composer have to fulfill that expectation? And indeed, is that a reasonable expectation to have?

 

Again, I'm not talking right or wrong here: obviously there's a demand for it, the market's there. And there are times where I disagree or dislike the choices made--why did you edit out those seconds from that fanfare in Revenge of the Sith, Johnny!?!? But when it comes to presenting their hard work on an album, for consumption and judgement on its own merits as musical entertainment for listening, it's their right. 

 

If John Williams wants to start out A.I. with a ballsmacking barnstormer masterpiece like Mecha World instead of a creeping whisper like Cybertronics, it's his choice. If he wants to leave out a good cue from The Terminal because he thinks it's too much an outlier for the rest of the music, it's his choice. He put in the hours, he risked carpal tunnel many times over writing hundreds if not thousands of notes every score, he had to get back massages to alleviate the stress of delivering guzzle loads of music on such a short time span...why shouldn't he, or any composer who puts in the work, have that choice?

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35 minutes ago, Nick Parker said:

He put in the hours, he risked carpal tunnel many times over writing hundreds if not thousands of notes every score

 

I think there's more than thousands of notes in his film scores. ;)

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Disc 6: my thoughts.

 

I guess I should start by saying that hearing this music in its complete form after waiting for a leak that never came for six years is kind of surreal. Having said that, there are some presentation choices I can’t really agree with/understand and deep down I have to admit that this isn’t the presentation I was hoping for.

 

To begin with, Something Wicked Intro was a little bit too quiet and I don’t really understand what it’s doing after Discussing Black. I heard Matessino mentioning in an interview that Cuarón told him the score was Harry’s subconsciousness, so is this cue supposed to illustrate Harry’s joy/worry as he boards the train to Hogwarts? If it isn’t, I will admit that it is pretty difficult to find a good spot for this marvellous piece of music if you’re not going to recreate the film version. I’m also still curious about Double Trouble, and more specifically, why both the Dutch and Flemish versions of that cue use different notes for the penultimate ‘ron’ in ‘cauldron bubble. I totally understand why they couldn’t ‘waste’ disc space on two versions of this cue, though, and, after all, recreating the film version yourself isn’t that hard.

 

Hearing Double Trouble and Train to Hogwarts Version I back-to-back was absolutely fantastic. It wouldn’t appear like that in a personal edit I hope to do one day, but it does work. having Train to Hogwarts Version II right after that makes less sense and it’s unacceptable that there isn’t a clean opening to Double Trouble March. I would totally support a combination of Double Trouble March and Rainy Nights, Dementors, and Birds, but the train alternate has to be in the bonus section because it didn’t appear anywhere in the film.

 

The Courtyard is such a wonderful cue. So simple and yet so moving, but again, I just don’t understand why it’s here. I’m not saying that hearing Sir Cadogan right after it doesn’t work, but Sir Cadogan should have his own track at the right moment (after Great Hall Ceiling) and I don’t think that The Courtyard would have bothered anyone right after the Patronus cue. This score is such a mishmash of different styles anyway that there seems little point in trying to put similar cues together. Just my two cents.

 

Befriending The Hippogriff i a great cue, but makes no sense story-wise.

 

The Boggarts is even weirder. Why present the same cue twice back-to-back? Neville only has one Boggart, those shrill clarinets don’t need to be heard twice and if we have more Boggarts in the bonus section anyway, why not put that alternate there?

 

On The Bridge is sublime, especially those quiet harp notes.

 

The Portrait Gallery works way better, if you accept/imagine that the end of that cue underscores the Sirius Black ‘reveal’, but that track and the next one should have been one track.

 

The alternate Map To Snow Scene still takes my breath away, but, again, why is it there? There’s no denying it works when you hear The Three Broomsticks right after it (so not The Snowball Fight first), but it’s a bit of a second, superfluous ending to Woods Walk and Bird Flight.

 

The Three Broomsticks is an amazing piece of music to listen to, but, yeah, chronology…

 

Buckbeak’s Fate could have been a little softer, but it does work very well after the final Patronus attempt.

 

Reveal Your Secrets is such a great cue, but it makes for a rather awkward track ending, especially when Reading The Map has a great one.

 

What instrument did they use to underscore Trelawney grabbing Harry? So good.

 

The Executioner, just amazing. Those bassoons!

 

Where’s the harpsichord at the start of Confrontation Scene?

 

Harry and Sirius is another beautiful track, but I was rather surprised there’s no ‘percussion hit’ near the start of the werewolf scene.

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7 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Harry and Sirius is another beautiful track, but I was rather surprised there’s no ‘percussion hit’ near the start of the werewolf scene.

 

There were simply too many notes.

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2 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

 I heard Matessino mentioning in an interview that Cuarón told him the score was Harry’s subconsciousness

I thought he said Conscience....

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7 hours ago, Alex said:

Could anyone give me a time stamp of what music originally appears in the Bats scene? 

 

I'm not sure if this is what you're asking, but I can't think of what else it could be:

 

The unused bats music is the last 30 seconds of "Saving Buckbeak" in the bonus track section. The used bats music is the last 30 seconds of "Saving Buckbeak" in the main program. 

 

Crumbs also posted a video syncing the unused bats music to picture at the top of the previous page. We've had it on the OST for 15 years. 

 

 

 

33 minutes ago, Chewy said:

We don't have that film version intro on the LLL set, right? : 

 

 

Is that a rip from the iso score thingy that showed up in that podcast? Probably more sound team stuff like the frogs

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2 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

Where’s the harpsichord at the start of Confrontation Scene?

 

You mean the Pettigrew theme that is tracked from Reading the Map and pitch-shifted?

1 hour ago, Chewy said:

We don't have that film version intro on the LLL set, right? : 

 

 

No, it's not on the set, but it's right there, which is fine for me. It's basically just the beginning of Time Past without the ticking or the chimes.

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1 minute ago, Brundlefly said:

@bollemanneke, good that you're no album producer.

 

It’s so odd being in the position of having assembled your own music for an album, and still being a film music fan. Personally, I sort of agree with @bollemanneke. I typically prefer having a chronological presentation with all the cues separate. So I get where he’s coming from.

 

But again, having done some Albums of my own work...I totally get why OSTs end up the way they are, or why this set is the way it is. Although, I think it depends on what it’s aiming to be. An OST is of course meant to be a listening experience, but I feel like something called an Archival Collection, should aim to present things in full chronological order, etc. but at the same time...idk. It’s...a constant inner battle for me.

 

But I’ve absolutely done some cue combinations and full on Album Versions (instead of the original cues) with my own work. So I certainly can’t criticize someone for doing it that way if that’s how they feel it’s right.

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