Harry Potter 7CD Collection - MUSIC discussion

[Arpy 4,145]

One of my favourite OST assemblies from Azkaban is Secrets of the Castle. It was so strange not hearing the second half (Rainy Nights) come in after the Great Hall Ceiling cue in this set! The two cues just feel right together!

[A. A. Ron 1,738]

37 minutes ago, Arpy said:

One of my favourite OST assemblies from Azkaban is Secrets of the Castle. It was so strange not hearing the second half (Rainy Nights) come in after the Great Hall Ceiling cue in this set! The two cues just feel right together!

 

I agree. I'm using it and Window to the Past in my playlist.

[Datameister 2,037]

For me the one that's like that is "Hagrid the Professor", AKA "Sir Cadogan" followed immediately by "Double Trouble on the Hill." My desire to listen to scores chronologically is very strong for a number of reasons, but these two cues just belong together.

 

"Secrets of the Castle" is pretty great too, though. Come to think of it, I actually really like how the OST was assembled. As an album, it's pretty fantastic. Really its only flaw is all the good stuff that's missing - and now we have a lot of that!

[Arpy 4,145]

Something I've noticed recently after years of rewatching clips on YouTube and the Blu-ray of Azkaban is how the pitch? seems kind of off in each source when The Journey to Hogwarts opens that hearing it on this set so cleanly and at the right pitch is another strange revelation.

 

Another thing about Rainy Nights is how the mix is more prominent on this set, the whispering voices are much clearer, it all feels more vibrant and alive.

[crumbs 14,301]

Probably a lot of YouTube clips sourced from the PAL version of the film which runs at 25fps rather than 23.987 or whatever for NTSC regions. Unless corrected during mastering, this makes the pitch incorrect for the entire movie by about 4% on all PAL versions. 

 

I believe this is a DVD only issue though. For the Bluray format all regions have the same frame rate (accurate to the film itself, 24fps).

[Incanus 5,713]

3 hours ago, Datameister said:

"Secrets of the Castle" is pretty great too, though. Come to think of it, I actually really like how the OST was assembled. As an album, it's pretty fantastic. Really its only flaw is all the good stuff that's missing - and now we have a lot of that!

That and the redundant edited end credits suite eating up a lot of the running time on the disc which could have been given to more of the awesome music from the film like e.g. a couple of variations of the Window to the Past theme. Basically repeating half the disc in the end credits note-for-note wasn't a very good decision in my humble opinion.

[Josh500 1,615]

59 minutes ago, Incanus said:

That and the redundant edited end credits suite eating up a lot of the running time on the disc which could have been given to more of the awesome music from the film like e.g. a couple of variations of the Window to the Past theme. Basically repeating half the disc in the end credits note-for-note wasn't a very good decision in my humble opinion.

 

Yeah, but most JW albums of that era!(90s and 2000s) repeat one or a few tracks, usually the concert versions, at the end! So it wasn't surpising.

 

Examples:

 

Kingdom of the Crystal Skull 

The Phantom Menace 

Attack of the Clones

Revenge of the Sith 

Saving Private Ryan

Seven Years in Tibet 

The Terminal 

Jurassic Park 

The Patriot 

Angela's Ashes

JFK 

Etc.

 

 

[bollemanneke 3,337]

Disc 7: my thoughts.

 

It was very interesting to hear that strange effect underscoring Hermione smashing Hagrid’s window, but not the second time when that happens in the film. Curiously, this effect was removed in both Dutch and Flemish dubs of the movie. And the bat extension, fantastic.

 

I really love the fact that the Window to the Past overlay still retains the original cue’s material, makes the whole thing sound so dreamy. If I'm not mistaken, the film cut out the original celesta sounds.

 

The Rescue of Sirius. Wait, where's the breaking glass and Hermione's scream?

 

Love the celesta at the end of Turning Time Back.

 

The extra note at the start of The Firebolt will take getting used to, but if it was recorded that way, sure.

 

Hedwig's Theme sounds so similar and yet also subtly different.

 

The Wizard's consort. I just love how you hear hints of A Winter's Spell in the Leaky Cauldron part. The pub music, surreal. And it references Window to the Past. What a treat, thank you, Johnny. Ooh, what's that last track, an alternate for Winter's Spell? Again, this plays very well as an album track, but I keep thinking about the film. Now that we're in album mode, wouldn't it have been great to also include A Winter's Spell in this medieval feast?

 

Hogsmeade Candy Box is quite endearing, but isn't the film version somewhat different (wild parts?)?

 

A Winter's Spell actually sounded more magical in the distance and with reverb and it really isn't a very good choir. Either. Publish it, Hal Leonard.

 

I feel somewhat cheated by the bonus section. Lumos is unnecessary (yes, I know, I know, album take), why couldn't That's A Lie and Aunt Marge Points The Finger be in the main program and what about that alternate Finger cue that's all over the Honeydukes DVD game? Plenty of disc space. The alternate waltz part is great, however.

 

The Knight Bus just seems to fill space, I don't need the entire thing again. Same goes for Apparition on the Train, quidditch, Third Year, Saving Buckbeak, A Window To The Past and The Dementors Converge.

 

The Grim alternate is interesting, I don't understand why the Spider needs to be repeated, the ending is better, but, yeah, why not put that alternate Neville's Boggart here too?

 

I can't add anything interesting to Josh's great theory behind the transformation alternate.

 

Watching The Past (alternate) is great, but weren’t this ending and The Patronus Power meant to be an alternate for The Dementors Converge final portions?

 

The Dementors circle, wow. And The Patronus Light... and The Patronus Power!

 

The Firebolt Alternate, so great. I'm only surprised Hedwig's Theme is retained here, I was expecting that alternate to have gone right into the credits. It would have been so awesome had they used this one in the movie, then it truly would have been a score like 4-8, Hedwig’s Theme and no other recurring themes.

 

Teaser, great to hear again. What a nice alternate Double Trouble.

 

Trailer. What?! Why is Schindler's List source music a problem again? The conclusion is awesome, though, but nothing unexpected. I would have preferred a conclusion with just the teaser.

 

And so we’ve come to the end of the first listen. How to grade this set?

HP1: 10/10.

HP2: 9,5/10.

HP3: 7/10.

[crumbs 14,301]

5 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

Trailer. What?! Why is Schindler's List source music a problem again? The conclusion is awesome, though, but nothing unexpected. I would have preferred a conclusion with just the teaser.

 

Yeah I have to admit that raised an eyebrow. So Williams is okay with including generic trailer music on the set (albeit with Reunion of Friends appended) even though he had nothing to do with it, but he won't allow a piece of source music he wrote & recorded with the rest of the score? And not just the shawm cue for Azkaban, same deal with the source music on Dracula, Superman, etc.

 

I can understand his reluctance to include source music for Schindler's List, considering he didn't compose any of it, but it's a little hard to get my head around the Azkaban thing.

 

He works in mysterious ways sometimes, does Jay-Dubs!

[Incanus 5,713]

1 hour ago, Josh500 said:

 

Yeah, but most JW albums of that era!(90s and 2000s) repeat one or a few tracks, usually the concert versions, at the end! So it wasn't surpising.

 

Examples:

 

Kingdom of the Crystal Skull 

The Phantom Menace 

Attack of the Clones

Revenge of the Sith 

Saving Private Ryan

Seven Years in Tibet 

The Terminal 

Jurassic Park 

The Patriot 

Angela's Ashes

JFK 

Etc.

 

 

No not surprising but in all those cases the end credits suites were specifically written for the credits sequence not half cut-and-paste edit jobs with half the album repeated. I don't think Williams has done these edited together film cue assemblies in end credits on his album presentations very often. The Last Jedi is the only one that comes to mind now. But you are of course correct about the repetition of same end credits material on OST album, which has been a JW tradition for a long time (ah those classic "Reprise" tracks!). But I guess some would have complained for not having the cut-and-paste version if he had included the Hedwig's theme ending on the album in the first place but at least that would have possibly left room for more cues from the film on the album.

[Arpy 4,145]

@bollemanneke You finally got A Winter's Spell and it didn't live up to your expectations!?!?

 

😂

[Brundlefly 2,385]

50 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Yeah I have to admit that raised an eyebrow. So Williams is okay with including generic trailer music on the set (albeit with Reunion of Friends appended) even though he had nothing to do with it, but he won't allow a piece of source music he wrote & recorded with the rest of the score? And not just the shawm cue for Azkaban, same deal with the source music on Dracula, Superman, etc.

 

I can understand his reluctance to include source music for Schindler's List, considering he didn't compose any of it, but it's a little hard to get my head around the Azkaban thing.

 

He works in mysterious ways sometimes, does Jay-Dubs!

Yep, why couldn't we have the shawm source instead of the trailer music? 

[bollemanneke 3,337]

The shawm isn't interesting either.

[Josh500 1,615]

I bet for quite a few of us JW fans, with the release of this HP box set, Shawm became the new holy grail! 😂 

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

La-La Land should release a box set of all the source music JW's ever created. I'm sure it would sell at least ten copies!

[Josh500 1,615]

1 minute ago, Jurassic Shark said:

La-La Land should release a box set of all the source music JW's ever created. I'm sure it would sell at least ten copies!

 

😂 

[Arpy 4,145]

When the set was being compiled, Williams looked over the whole thing and his face turned pale, his eyes welled up and then his glasses shimmered in the light:

 

'Not the shawm.'

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

That's not JW - it's Hanz with a fake beard.

[redishere 697]

I absolutely love the whole set, and I can see why they thought HP3 could benefit from a non chronological presentation: when compared to the first two, it really has a lot of short disconnected cues with different styles. 

 

I’m starting to get used to a lot of weird track combos, but in the last few days I also tried creating a continuous mix for HP3: I’m not finished yet, but it works really fine so far. I’m trying to include source music (after all HP1 has Cast a Christmas Spell) to make it as chronologically accurate as possible (the Hogsmeade part is quite hard to recreate, though: a lot of source music is overlapped), while also combining alternates in the main presentation. So it’s not really chronological but it feels chronological and it flows quite well: I must say I’m surprised, and now it feels a little bit weird to hear the LLL presentation. I’m not a fan of gaps between tracks, too, so this mix I’m creating is perfect (I’ll probably listen to it during my long strolls in the countryside!) 

 

I’m also putting some “repetitive” tracks (the shawm cue I recreated, the Waltz and Firebolt alternate, the teaser) in a last assembly after the end credits (the teaser is a perfect ending). I’ll share the tracklist when I’m done if you want! After all, this is an archival collection, so I guess it’s cool to try and morph it the way we like. 

 

Anyway, I decided to keep Something Wicked Intro separate from Double Trouble (didn’t want to repeat DT thrice with the teaser) and it works fine as a simole introduction immediately followed by DT. And Dumbledore’s Warning is perfect after Double Trouble!

[Chewy 2,376]

3 hours ago, crumbs said:

He works in mysterious ways sometimes

😂😂😂😂😂😂

[TSMefford 1,509]

5 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

I really love the fact that the Window to the Past overlay still retains the original cue’s material, makes the whole thing sound so dreamy. If I'm not mistaken, the film cut out the original celesta sounds.

 

Nope, the celesta is in the film. Just quiet.

 

Quote

 

Hogsmeade Candy Box is quite endearing, but isn't the film version somewhat different (wild parts?)?

 

It’s the same recording, it’s just been pitch-shifted (a lot of that in this score), edited, and portions are speed changed ever so slightly.

[bollemanneke 3,337]

How do you know that about the candy box?

[TSMefford 1,509]

7 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

How do you know that about the candy box?

 

Because I painstakingly matched it up and got phasing (meaning it's the exact same recording)

 

Plus, you can also hear one of the edits pretty clearly.

[bollemanneke 3,337]

Okay, but does that also count for the very final part of the piece in the movie, when you briefly hear UP The Stairs again? The 'player' repeats B-flat several times there, quite clumsily, and you don't hear that on the set.

[TSMefford 1,509]

3 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Okay, but does that also count for the very final part of the piece in the movie, when you briefly hear UP The Stairs again? The 'player' repeats B-flat several times there, quite clumsily, and you don't hear that on the set.

 

I've got the film open and I'm not hearing what you're referring to.

 

Mind pointing me to a time code in this clip? I'll double check.

 

[bollemanneke 3,337]

Oh dear, I made a mistake. It's at around 0:41 all right, but now I've just realised it's not part of that cue, it's something happening on-screen I guess.

[TSMefford 1,509]

14 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Oh dear, I made a mistake. It's at around 0:41 all right, but now I've just realised it's not part of that cue, it's something happening on-screen I guess.

 

Ohhhh. Did you mean the Honeydukes Door bell? I see. No matter.

 

But here's what I ended up with after using the LLL set and lining it up by pitch shifting it, editing it, and changing tempo in places ever so slightly (I'm talking 99% and 101%). Careful, there's a volume shift at 0:15.

 

[bollemanneke 3,337]

Wow, great work!

[Josh500 1,615]

Awesome! Now I understand what this cute little piece is all about.

[TSMefford 1,509]

1 minute ago, bollemanneke said:

Wow, great work!

 

Thanks! I've also got it mixed in with Up The Stairs, just for fun. If there's a film edit, I've recreated it the best I can. (No seriously, I even have a horrid cut with the Hogsmeade sources overlapping like in the film, it's a cringey listen)

[Josh500 1,615]

I honestly think the PoA score is, with a few exceptions like "Buckbeak's Flight," mixed in the film way too low! 

 

Oftentimes you can't even properly hear it! It's a bummer, really.

 

 

[TSMefford 1,509]

1 minute ago, Josh500 said:

I honestly think the PoA score is, with a few exceptions like "Buckbeak's Flight," mixed in the film way too low! 

 

Oftentimes you can't even properly hear it! It's a bummer, really.

 

Having now really taken a look at how the music is presented in the film, I whole-heartedly agree.

[Jay 37,287]

One of the things I LOVED about going to see Azkaban in concert is that it's opposite of how the score's treated in the film.  All the music is front and center and sounds glorious

[TSMefford 1,509]

Just now, Jay said:

One of the things I LOVED about going to see Azkaban in concert is that it's opposite of how the score's treated in the film.  All the music is front and center and sounds glorious

 

Damn. That sounds lovely. They had Azkaban in Concert right here in the new city I'm in, but I was so damn busy I didn't hear anything about it. So bummed I missed it! Goblet of Fire is supposed to be here soon, but it is no Azkaban. I'm hoping I'll catch it when I can make a bit of a trip.

[Josh500 1,615]

3 minutes ago, Jay said:

One of the things I LOVED about going to see Azkaban in concert is that it's opposite of how the score's treated in the film.  All the music is front and center and sounds glorious

 

Sounds like a dream! 

 

In contrast, the first two Potter movies, as well as the Home Alone movies have the perfect mix, imo. Chris Columbus, like Spielberg, just knows how to use JW's scores to the best effect! 

[TSMefford 1,509]

3 minutes ago, Josh500 said:

 

Sounds like a dream! 

 

In contrast, the first two Potter movies, as well as the Home Alone movies have the perfect mix, imo. Chris Columbus, like Spielberg, just knows how to use JW's scores to the best effect! 

 

Accurate. I feel like Columbus typically doesn't butcher his scores to the extent that Azkaban is as well. I mean, yes they have edits, but not...this. Lol

[Richard Penna 3,671]

18 hours ago, Jay said:

Is that a rip from the iso score thingy that showed up in that podcast? Probably more sound team stuff like the frogs

 

If we're referring to the chimes and brief string bit, rather than the sparkly bit, that sounds like an alternate section to me.

 

As someone who tends to get attached to film mixes/edits, this sort of meddling by Cuaron is very annoying.

[publicist 4,643]

16 minutes ago, Jay said:

One of the things I LOVED about going to see Azkaban in concert is that it's opposite of how the score's treated in the film.  All the music is front and center and sounds glorious

 

In all honesty, i was there and 'front and center' the score sure wasn't. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Agreed!

[TSMefford 1,509]

4 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

 

If we're referring to the chimes and brief string bit, rather than the sparkly bit, that sounds like an alternate section to me.

 

As someone who tends to get attached to film mixes/edits, this sort of meddling by Cuaron is very annoying.

 

Not an alternate, just has some instruments removed / dialed out. It's just hiding under the clock ticking and chimes from 0:05-0:12 in Time Past / Saving Buckbeak.

[Richard Penna 3,671]

13 hours ago, Arpy said:

One of my favourite OST assemblies from Azkaban is Secrets of the Castle. It was so strange not hearing the second half (Rainy Nights) come in after the Great Hall Ceiling cue in this set! The two cues just feel right together!

 

I joined them - I absolutely agree that it's a very well done assembly. I also kept A Window to the Past for the same reason.

[Jay 37,287]

Maybe its cause I was sitting right next to the orchestra then

[TSMefford 1,509]

Just now, Richard Penna said:

 

I joined them - I absolutely agree that it's a very well done assembly. I also kept A Window to the Past for the same reason.

 

Not going to lie, it also feels very weird to hear the Alternate of Lupin's Transformation not immediately go into Chasing Scabbers. 

[Richard Penna 3,671]

There are lots of things that sound very weird now  I had to join several cues how they were on the OST. In that respect (joining cues), JW is a master. He just sucks at choosing cues to drop and how to order the ones he keeps.

[publicist 4,643]

4 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

In that respect (joining cues), JW is a master. He just sucks at choosing cues to drop and how to order the ones he keeps.

 

Often he also sucks at joining cues. 

[Josh500 1,615]

24 minutes ago, TSMefford said:

 

Accurate. I feel like Columbus typically doesn't butcher his scores to the extent that Azkaban is as well. I mean, yes they have edits, but not...this. Lol

 

So can you do "Time Past / Saving Buckbeak" sometime? 

 

I'd love to see that mixed in the film properly, where you can actually hear the nuances of the music!

[publicist 4,643]

10 minutes ago, Jay said:

Maybe its cause I was sitting right next to the orchestra then

 

Probably. The balance in a concert hall with picture sound will always favour the film mix, especially if you're not sitting next to the orchestra.

[TSMefford 1,509]

1 minute ago, Josh500 said:

 

So can you do "Time Past / Saving Buckbeak" sometime? 

 

I'd love to see that mixed in the film properly, where you can actually hear the nuances of the music!

 

A film edit you mean? I've got one. I might post the clip with it once I am sure I've got everything. That sequence is extremely edited and tweaked in the film.

[Josh500 1,615]

6 minutes ago, TSMefford said:

 

A film edit you mean? I've got one. I might post the clip with it once I am sure I've got everything. That sequence is extremely edited and tweaked in the film.

 

Great! Love to see that.

[TSMefford 1,509]

Just now, Josh500 said:

 

Great! Love to see that.

 

I'll work on it. I think I may have missed something when I did my first pass on it. So once it's updated I'll put something together.