Harry Potter 7CD Collection - MUSIC discussion

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50 minutes ago, Jay said:

MM didn't edit the gracenote out of the Firebolt alternate, that track presents the cue as recorded (the entire set presents the cues at their full recorded length, he didn't go around editing bits out).  Obviously after that was recorded, AC re-edited the scene, and JW had to add a grace note to the revised cue to cover the new length. Then, JW chose to have the grace note edited out for the OST album. 

 

Interesting! The opening and closing statements in the Firebolt alternate sounded identical to the final film takes to my ears, so I guessed MM used the same takes in both tracks then inserted the Firebolt alternate into the middle of the latter.

 

One edit I had to make in the above video was an unusually long held note at the end, which ran about 2-3 seconds longer in the alternate before the reveal of Cuaron's name for the credit roll. So that final line of dialogue must have been held longer in the original cut Williams scored.

[TSMefford 1,509]

4 hours ago, Holko said:

I haven't listened to most of the cues he uploaded - will perhaps do so after I already have the set - but the inclusion of "Headless Hunt (alternate)", which is the tambourine intro+Cadogan slowed down but without the tambourine overlay leads me to believe he doesn't have the full iso score and also doesn't know that the cue was only tracked and overlaid with percussion, or wasn't in the cue list, certainly not with that title.

 

I have. Based on the one you mentioned alone you can tell it’s just an attempted clean-up from the blu-Ray. Some of it is better than others, but certainly no recording sessions.

3 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

So, what reasoning do people think is behind the repeated alternate first Boggart cue in the main programme?

 

My assumption is that both were included because both are in the film.

[bollemanneke 3,334]

Huh? Really?

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[Jay 37,249]

44 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Huh? Really?

 

The film uses the first half of V1 and then the second half of V2

[TSMefford 1,509]

14 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

The film uses the first half of V1 and then the second half of V2

 

@bollemanneke Yup. This. It’s impossible to have the film version without both.

[bollemanneke 3,334]

And I thought I knew this score inside-out.

[Jay 37,249]

The only way to do it would be to do an edit where the main program has the first half of V1 and the second half of V2 edited together and the then bonus track section has the first half of V2 and the second half of V1 edited together, but then you're never really presenting Williams' intentions anywhere.

 

It's kind of a damned if you do damned if you dont situation

[TSMefford 1,509]

11 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

And I thought I knew this score inside-out.

 

 We're all learning here. Well. Except @Jay... Actually he did learn about Buckbeak's Theme in Time Past so I guess everyone is learning! XD

 

9 minutes ago, Jay said:

The only way to do it would be to do an edit where the main program has the first half of V1 and the second half of V2 edited together and the then bonus track section has the first half of V2 and the second half of V1 edited together, but then you're never really presenting Williams' intentions anywhere.

 

It's kind of a damned if you do damned if you dont situation

 

In my edit (Well, one iteration of it), I simply deal with the repeated material. Main program has the film edit, and the bonus tracks have them presented as V1 and V2. That's the edit with film versions though. If i'm not listening to that then I'm just listening to the LLL set as is. XD

[crumbs 14,287]

That situation reminds me of Leia Breaks the News / Funeral Pyre for a Jedi!

[Holko 9,491]

The damned SE works those two alternates in so well that the OST version seems bare and unfinished and the film version seems sudden and unearned without the buildup you're used to!

[crumbs 14,287]

How did the SE handle it again? 

 

I wonder how Mike will handle that when he revisits ROTJ? Both film versions together and both unused versions in the extras, even though Williams didn't record it either way? Tricky. 

 

No idea which release did it, but I liked the one with both Funeral Pyre versions back to back. It's like a mini-suite of the Force Theme. The Leia cue can be relegated to the alternates where it belongs though. 😛

 

[Faleel 5,326]

20 minutes ago, crumbs said:

That situation reminds me of Leia Breaks the News / Funeral Pyre for a Jedi!

Or Skateboard Chase from BTTF.

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Or Journey Through the Ice from A.I.

 

Seems rather common, now I think about it. 😄

[Holko 9,491]

 

 

5 minutes ago, crumbs said:

How did the SE handle it again? 

 

I wonder how Mike will handle that when he revisits ROTJ? Both film versions together and both unused versions in the extras, even though Williams didn't record it either way? Tricky. 

Film version (and OST) News, alternate (OST) Pyre, film Pyre. The alternate News is... somewhere else? No idea is it's on the SE at all.

 *shudders at how incredibly godawful the sound is*

[crumbs 14,287]

Ahh yes, that was marvellously done, that version. I'll assume it was Mike's direction. 

[Jay 37,249]

The alternate news piece does not appear on the 1997 SE set, its only on the anthology.

[Holko 9,491]

I like it, but the bonus section is where it belongs.

[Faleel 5,326]

I love how MM is still doing this, but more refined.

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6 minutes ago, Jay said:

The alternate news piece does not appear on the 1997 SE set, its only on the anthology.

 

Ah yes, I just did a double take looking at the SE tracklist. For a moment I thought even the Sail Barge alternate was missing! It seems the Leia alternate is the only substantial missing alternate from the SE that I can see. 

 

Still, another reason that score needs a complete overhaul to get it done properly. No idea how Mike will handle all the different songs and celebration cues. Aren't there like 5 versions of the latter alone? 

 

Ewok Celebration: Film Version (unreleased) 

Ewok Celebration: Album Version

Ewok Celebration: Anthology "Film" Version (not the film version at all) 

Victory Celebration: Album Version

Victory Celebration: Film Version

[Smaug The Iron 510]

22 minutes ago, Faleel J.M. said:

Or Skateboard Chase from BTTF.

What about it?

[Arpy 4,145]

All this ewok stuff is making me wonder if Williams will write a new Victory Celebration for Episode IX, or something like 'Porg Celebration'??

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Not if Episode IX ends with everybody dying. Then the final track will be Failure Commiseration and Finale.

[bollemanneke 3,334]

They won't die, they'll end with a cliffhanger for episodes 10-12.

[Holko 9,491]

27 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Victory Celebration: Album Version

Victory Celebration: Film Version

 

I think technically they're the same recording, the film just loops the introductory seconds over and over and over and over and over and over and over (or dials out those weird effects), and also dials out the "ya-ya-ya" choir that sounds pitch-shifted, I'm able to hear the faintest remains of it in the bluray when really concentrating. It doesn't work at all without all those crowd noises, but works well with those in-film. The sound guys also added effects like those strikes when we cut to Coruscant and the stormtooper helmets clanging - at least I believe they were only sound department additions.

[bollemanneke 3,334]

On my second HP3 listen, this time on the CD player away from the computer. I'm beginning to appreciate and understand this presentation.

[TSMefford 1,509]

1 hour ago, bollemanneke said:

On my second HP3 listen, this time on the CD player away from the computer. I'm beginning to appreciate and understand this presentation.

 

That was my initial reaction as well.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

10 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

I've never found Goldsmith's scores to be very strong on the emotional side.

 

7 hours ago, publicist said:

Not from the film's character's POV (and not as synonym for 'it made me cry', to which it is often flimsily reduced).

 

As it has always been and as it will ever be: A crying audience does never verify quality.

[JohnnyD 1,220]

I just thought of something. I know The Dufay Collective perform on Wizards’ Consort and Sir Cadogan. Do they also perform on The Hippogriff Lesson and End Credits Suite?

[Jay 37,249]

Great question.  I'd imagine yes but I have no information on the subject.

[bollemanneke 3,334]

Speaking of the Dufay collective, what instruments are used in that marvellous hogsmeade pub cue? Is it recorder and harp, or recorder and hurdy-gurdy (what a word)?

[Bespin 8,472]

I listened to the Prisonner of Azkaban Expanded score for the time first today!!!!!

 

WOW!!!

 

Half the tracks are variations on "Double Trouble" and the rest have "tick tick tick" in it!

 

Superb score!

 

😝

[Jay 37,249]

3 minutes ago, Bespin said:

I listened to the Prisonner of Azkaban Expanded score for the time first today!!!!!

 

Why'd you wait so long?

[TSMefford 1,509]

1 hour ago, bollemanneke said:

Speaking of the Dufay collective, what instruments are used in that marvellous hogsmeade pub cue? Is it recorder and harp, or recorder and hurdy-gurdy (what a word)?

 

I messaged them to compliment their work and to see if they have a record of what cues they worked on. We'll see if they respond XD.

Just now, Jay said:

 

Why'd you wait so long?

 

Will power test. LOL.

[Bespin 8,472]

1 minute ago, Jay said:

 

Why'd you wait so long?

 

It's a thing we do when we get older... to make the pleasure last!

[bollemanneke 3,334]

You're the best.

[Faleel 5,326]

8 hours ago, Smaug the iron said:

What about it?

The opening blast is actually from a different version then the rest of the cue (the disc two version)

[gkgyver 1,645]

Decided against getting a second box, and will spend the money on a Nintendo Switch instead.

[Wojo 2,453]

3 hours ago, Jay said:

 

Why'd you wait so long?

 

Hey, I only just took the shrink wrap off mine and ripped them yesterday... 

[Holko 9,491]

Love how Daily Prophet involves a dark rendition of the Hogwarts fanfare for the Gringotts break-in news - technically we're not yet supposed to know it involves Voldemort or the Stone so using those themes would've spoilt it!

 

As much as Neville Stiffens is a clever idea (combining those two unused cues to kinda recreate the tracking in the film), it feels really redundant to have It's Guarding Something, another Hogwarts fanfare playoff, right after the big one in Running to McGonagall, you just want to get to the varied good stuff by then. It might have been better to just leave those two cues in their place - stick Guarding at the end of Moving Stairs as a moody finale and Troll in the Dungeon in front of Fighting the Troll. I'll certainly do that in my playlist.

 

Otherwise the film presentation of PS is pitch perfect, Im hearing all kinds of new bits I haven't noticed before and having not heard the score for months helped in looking at it with a fresher eye. IMO Hedwig works better as a concert suite and end credits piece while HWW is best listened to as the Children's Suite finale, but there's plenty of space for both on the disc, I can live with it. It's a pure classic, every cue is memorable and has something going for it.

 

The Children's Suite is an absolute wonder, so happy it's finally available! How often do we get 8 miniatures (and 2 larger concert pieces) presenting the main ideas of a score while the composer is still in the headspace, distilled down to their essence with the nature of the presentation and the select instrument groups, but also at times explored way beyond what they usually get in the score(s), like Nimbus 2000! Together with the bonus section, this disc is a testament that the Philosopher's Stone project is perhaps one of the most inspired and enthusiastic Williams has ever been.

 

Hagrid's Flute with a clean ending is great - it's even mastered less harsh, I think. The Leaky Cauldron I dislike, though - a fadeout is one of the laziest ways to end a track (Cantina Band 2... Cantina Band 1 on the OST...), I think the interrupt ending would've been perfectly fine. Flute and the sessions Cauldron will be reintegrated into the main program. Hedwig on Harp is magnificent! The Teaser's good, but its historical significance is greater than its musical interest. Hogwarts Forever vocal might find a place as an intro to HF in the Children's Suite - worth a try at least! I always found Owl's Flight incredibly unfitting for the scene, but an intriguing composition on its own. The Coke ad was always great. Trailer is not a phenomenal performance but a fine closing note.

 

3 hours later... What a set! Basically everything I could ever dream of for Philosopher's Stone - with only 2 minor and easily fixable hiccups (Neville Stiffens, Leaky Cauldron fadeout) in the whole thing! Ron really wants to escape though.

[Jay 37,249]

5 hours ago, Holko said:

Ron really wants to escape though.

What does this mean? 

[Holko 9,491]

29 minutes ago, Jay said:

5 hours ago, Holko said:

Ron really wants to escape though.

What does this mean? 

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It's a conspiracy!

 

 

Literally the same fucking fingers! LOL

[Holko 9,491]

We should letterbomb LLL to tell their manufacturer the cases they use for these premium products are literal shit.

[crumbs 14,287]

Bit disconcerting, seems there's a manufacturing defect in their new cases if the exact same parts are broken in both our sets.

 

I hadn't paid much attention to the quality of their cases over the years but I might have to compare with my other LLL sets.

[DrTenma 116]

I guess this has been discussed but with so many pages it's hard to follow (BTW is there a way for searching inside a topic?) but what about the trailer music in Prisoner of Azkaban? I mean, is that composed by John Williams? In the booked they don't say differently, but all those synths seem more a job from a trailer music company with the recording of Chamber of Secrets at the end, right?

[Jay 37,249]

Just now, DrTenma said:

 is there a way for searching inside a topic?

 

 

[TSMefford 1,509]

2 hours ago, DrTenma said:

I guess this has been discussed but with so many pages it's hard to follow (BTW is there a way for searching inside a topic?) but what about the trailer music in Prisoner of Azkaban? I mean, is that composed by John Williams? In the booked they don't say differently, but all those synths seem more a job from a trailer music company with the recording of Chamber of Secrets at the end, right?

 

We have discussed it a couple times yes. Seems to be mostly the work of a trailer house, with a new mix of "Reunion of Friends" tacked on the end there. Same recording, new mix.

[DrTenma 116]

Thanks @Jay!

 

16 hours ago, TSMefford said:

We have discussed it a couple times yes. Seems to be mostly the work of a trailer house, with a new mix of "Reunion of Friends" tacked on the end there. Same recording, new mix.

 

It's probably the most strange inclusion in a Williams' score, honestly. I don't complain since it makes the set more complete, but I don't understand why they included it (maybe it was simply because they had the files...?). 

[Holko 9,491]

Hmm... I'm with those who say the Flying Car starts too late for the transition to work perfectly - however, it's really small enough that I can ignore it and let it slip.

 

Switching The Library and Transformation Class seems like a change for the sake of change, it's nothing groundbreaking so I don't actually mind it, not even enough to be perplexed.

 

Harry is a Parselmouth is not that Harry is a Parselmouth? So that cue was tracked after all, this is for the deleted scene of Harry sitting above the lake with Hedwig, asking her "Who am I?", is it not? Also known as Change of Season Reprise.

 

I do like the longer Christmas Break even if the orchestra misses their cue at 1:51 and take 5 seconds to get in sync with the sleighbells - maybe this and its deletedness would've warranted it to belong in the bonus section?

 

The lack of a proper plot structure payoff is felt, that will be fixed when I put the tracked cue recreations back in the main program. What a weird situation: "Billy Baby, please rerecord Flying Keys for the Pixies, the Banquet for The Banquet, Blue Forest for Aragog... what do you mean the climax of the movie? I told you already the sound guys will hack up something for it from the previous score! Now go back to literally rerecording an edited version of the Quidditch Match!".

 

I will rearrage the credits suite to my preferred order - HWW in the recycling bin, Dobby starts (a good, unexpectedly calm start, goes crazy leading into the next one), then Chamber Theme, then Fawkes closes (that finale has to be a finale, I don't want badass action arrangements afterwards). 

 

The alternate Petrified Colin will replace the final one in my playlist, Car Drives Off will have to be integrated somewhere, the rest of the alternates are kinda useless (A take with no difference! A take with a 3 second section missing! Riveting!). The first TV commercial is great, the third one is just an expanded version of that, taking the snappy quick piece of a genius transition and running it somewhat into the ground, overdoing it. Interesting nevertheless. Number 2 at least reprises the dropped Quidditch motif. Maybe if we took out Harry's Wondrous World and some of the more uninteresting alternates, there would have been space for respectfully recreating very much composer-intended tracking like the Chamber Opens, at least - in this score's rare case (well, together with AotC), the tracked cues were intended from the get go to fill narrative gaps that weren't scored for one reason or another, not replacing written, recorded and intended to be used pieces like with the first score's two iconic pieces of tracking. Neville Stiffens, a similarly out-of-the-blue tracked cue, was pretty much recreated on the previous set, though in a special circumstance of its two components being unused in their intended places in the film.

 

Overall I wasn't feeling the score that much today. PS totally immersed me yesterday, but this didn't grab me. There are geat cues, but it flows less well than the first, and the repetitions are amplified when listening to them back to back.

 

 

Wow that turned out to be negative! Didn't mean that, I do like the score and the set! But since I've listened to the sessions for years, it's not the great stuff and bits that really stand out to me here but the changes, misses or pretty much superfluous material, of which there's more on this set than the previous one - satisfaction rate with this set is about 85% instead of the 99% of PS. When I point out things like what I wrote in this post, take it that I like or love literally everything else!