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Harry Potter 7CD Collection - MUSIC discussion


Jay

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1 hour ago, Datameister said:

For that passage, I think I prefer the sessions mix...but I'm thrilled that we now have both! :D

It sounds more like Council Meeting from ROTS with the synth overlay included.

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54 minutes ago, TSMefford said:

 

Where's that? I went looking for it, but it sounded just like the same one we already have on LLL.

 

Nah, they couldn't be more different. The revised version on the LLL set is a low, rumbly, ominous swell. The original version is high-pitched, sparkly, and "magical"-sounding, and it doesn't have any sort of build-up. It just repeats several times before fading out. I can't remember offhand where it is in the bonus features, but I seem to recall it being used multiple times.

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Someone said the First Frozen Lake alternate was in the bonus features for POA too, but I never found it.

 

I only heard the mockup once but it sounded reminiscent of The Patronus Power on the set (although the liner notes indicate that track is an early version of Summoning the Patronus IIRC).

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3 hours ago, Datameister said:

For that passage, I think I prefer the sessions mix...but I'm thrilled that we now have both! :D

Yes, I did a double take when I first heard the synth mixed in. I think it adds some eerieness to the scene, but it might be mixed a tad too loud for this set!

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51 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Someone said the First Frozen Lake alternate was in the bonus features for POA too, but I never found it.

 

I only heard the mockup once but it sounded reminiscent of The Patronus Power on the set (although the liner notes indicate that track is an early version of Summoning the Patronus IIRC).

 

LLL's "The Patronus Power" does sound similar to part of one of the "First Frozen Lake" alternates. Not sure what the story is with that one...haven't had a chance to really study that one in depth yet. But I've never heard any of it on the bonus features...

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1 hour ago, Datameister said:

 

Nah, they couldn't be more different. The revised version on the LLL set is a low, rumbly, ominous swell. The original version is high-pitched, sparkly, and "magical"-sounding, and it doesn't have any sort of build-up. It just repeats several times before fading out. I can't remember offhand where it is in the bonus features, but I seem to recall it being used multiple times.

 

I'll to check again i guess.

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5 hours ago, Datameister said:

At the very least, the original "Aunt Marge Points the Finger" was recorded; it's heard in the DVD special features. What makes you say that the others weren't recorded? (I have no idea if they were or not; just curious what your thought process is.)

 

5 hours ago, TSMefford said:

 

Where's that? I went looking for it, but it sounded just like the same one we already have on LLL.

 

On 12/12/2018 at 5:28 PM, bollemanneke said:

Found it! 1:55

 

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That's such a weird scoring choice for that moment, draws a bit too much attention to itself. Doesn't really fit as a lead-in to either the film or alternate opening of Aunt Marge's Waltz either.

 

@Jay, do you know if this alternate was intended to accompany the alternate Aunt Marge's Waltz opening? The liner notes seem to imply that alternate opening was a revision of the film version, rather than the other way around.

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15 minutes ago, crumbs said:

That's such a weird scoring choice for that moment, draws a bit too much attention to itself. Doesn't really fit as a lead-in to either the film or alternate opening of Aunt Marge's Waltz either.

 

@Jay, do you know if this alternate was intended to accompany the alternate Aunt Marge's Waltz opening? The liner notes seem to imply that alternate opening was a revision of the film version, rather than the other way around.

 

I highly doubt the alternate opening to the waltz on the LLL set was the original version. Everything it replaced in the film/album version fits so organically as part of the cue's Rossini pastiche. The finger-pointing cue heard on the LLL set (and in the film) seems to be a revision as well, based on the slate numbers we have. The weird "magical" version seems to have been the original.

 

I could be wrong, though!

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So, Williams first intentions:

"Magical" tinkling version of 1m4 Aunt Marge Points the Finger (unused in final film, unreleased)

Original version of Aunt Marge's Waltz (used, featured in film and used on album)

 

Followed by his revisions:

The less magical, final sting 1m4x Aunt Marge Points the Finger (used in final film, included on LLL set)

Revised opening for Aunt Marge's Waltz (unused in final film, included on LLL set)

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And how about that Diagon Alley opening? Was that an early intention as is on the set for a leaner cut and the film/sessions variant actually underscoring the moving bricks, or is the previously unreleased segment just an early alternate replaced completely by the film and sessions opening, and Mike just felt like including it in the main program instead of the bonus section?

 

Edit: Holy hell it fits perfectly. Hedwig starts higher as the bricks move in, the offset lower counterHedwig comes in as other bricks move out, Hagrid proclaiming Diagon alley gets accented, the tinkles follow Harry's footsteps as we cut to him and so on. I guess this *was* an ealy discarded intention.

 

So how it went:

Williams writes A for the bricks and B for the camera turn reveal as one piece

For some reason it's cut down and rerecorded to nothing for the bricks and A for the turn

in the film Columbus realised he'd have to accent the shitty effects with some magic after all, so he tracks Hermione's Feather for the bricks and A remains for the turn, and of course replaces the could-be-source section completely.

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1 hour ago, crumbs said:

That's such a weird scoring choice for that moment, draws a bit too much attention to itself. Doesn't really fit as a lead-in to either the film or alternate opening of Aunt Marge's Waltz either.

 

@Jay, do you know if this alternate was intended to accompany the alternate Aunt Marge's Waltz opening? The liner notes seem to imply that alternate opening was a revision of the film version, rather than the other way around.

yeah, I'd like to know why/if Matessino decided not to include this as well. I've been trying to come up with a good place for it in this set and have to admit it's damn difficult to include if you're going for a nice album flow.

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2 hours ago, Datameister said:

 

I highly doubt the alternate opening to the waltz on the LLL set was the original version. Everything it replaced in the film/album version fits so organically as part of the cue's Rossini pastiche. The finger-pointing cue heard on the LLL set (and in the film) seems to be a revision as well, based on the slate numbers we have. The weird "magical" version seems to have been the original.

 

I could be wrong, though!

 

1 hour ago, crumbs said:

So, Williams first intentions:

"Magical" tinkling version of 1m4 Aunt Marge Points the Finger (unused in final film, unreleased)

Original version of Aunt Marge's Waltz (used, featured in film and used on album)

 

Followed by his revisions:

The less magical, final sting 1m4x Aunt Marge Points the Finger (used in final film, included on LLL set)

Revised opening for Aunt Marge's Waltz (unused in final film, included on LLL set)

Well I am pretty glad this is the level of missing material from this set. :) 

 

Oh and of course the bloody shawm bit. ;) 

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49 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

yeah, I'd like to know why/if Matessino decided not to include this as well. I've been trying to come up with a good place for it in this set and have to admit it's damn difficult to include if you're going for a nice album flow.

 

From a musical presentation point of view I understand its omission. But if I wanted to include both versions I probably would've placed the film version of Aunt Marge Points the Finger at the start of Aunt Marge's Waltz in the film score presentation, then put the alternate Aunt Marge Points the Finger at the start of the alternate opening Aunt Marge's Waltz.

 

Keeps both film versions and both alternates together that way.

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4 hours ago, Holko said:

And how about that Diagon Alley opening? Was that an early intention as is on the set for a leaner cut and the film/sessions variant actually underscoring the moving bricks, or is the previously unreleased segment just an early alternate replaced completely by the film and sessions opening, and Mike just felt like including it in the main program instead of the bonus section?

 

I thought it was clear right back from the sessions that the old-English styled cue was the original intention and that the film is mostly tracked for that section.

 

It was particularly confusing to me when the OST came out that we hear the great hall entry music twice in the film and nowhere on album.

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1 minute ago, Richard Penna said:

 

I thought it was clear right back from the sessions that the old-English styled cue was the original intention and that the film is mostly tracked for that section.

 

It was particularly confusing to me when the OST came out that we hear the great hall entry music twice in the film and nowhere on album.

Read the post further, I'm talking about the opening.

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7 hours ago, Jay said:

 

 

 

 

Thanks @Jay And I assume that this has been mocked up from the sheets and confirmed to be an Alternate of that cue.

 

Its so different, that I almost don’t believe it. Lol.

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Am I crazy or deaf, or does what I presume to be Nevile's Boggart V2 (0:42 of The Boggarts) start with a very unsure and deflated, kinda Neville-esque version of the first notes of Hogwarts Forever?

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5 minutes ago, Holko said:

Am I crazy or deaf, or does what I presume to be Nevile's Boggart V2 (0:42 of The Boggarts) start with a very unsure and deflated, kinda Neville-esque version of the first notes of Hogwarts Forever?

No, you’re right. It’s on the OST as well, I think.

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4 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

What especially struck me about that cue was the rather unsure, but at the same time tender and determined Hedwig's theme statement on harp at the end. That was when I realised what a multi-functional theme it could have been, not just for the 'OH MY GOD IT'S HARRY POTTER!' moments.

 

Used properly, it could have been the Force Theme of the Potter series. Instead, it was mostly abandoned and just used for obligatory moments of nostalgia, given mere lip service. Very disappointing.

 

Only Desplat really integrated it properly into the meat of his scores. Doyle's interpretation right at the start of Goblet was okay, too.

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4 minutes ago, crocodile said:

I always wondered. Why did Williams give McGonagall such an ominous musical introduction in the film? Any ideas?

 

Karol

 

The transformation from cat to witch or the gnarly strings on the Entrance Staircase?

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1 minute ago, Holko said:

 

The transformation from cat to witch or the gnarly strings on the Entrance Staircase?

Oh yeah, I forgot about the opening scene. Yeah, I mean the staircase scene.

 

Karol

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I think it’s Williams doing his “witch’s fiddle” trope, since she’s a very old-school witch with the hat and everything. Plus even though we’ve met her and everyone seems nice enough, witches are scary. This might be Hansel and Gretel, what kind of sick candy house are these kids walking into? She gonna eat them now or what?

 

I remember a critic describing the “jolly menace” of the score which I liked. It’s the trick or treat of it all, he’s always flipping between “Wow this is cool!” and “Uh oh what’s that?” as often as possible in the music.

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That 'balance' actually makes the score less enjoyable for me. Too much of it sounds like great music with purposefully placed wrong notes. I do understand he's trying to make the world sound exciting and unfamiliar at the same time, but the book didn't focus on the unfamiliarity that much.

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20 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

That 'balance' actually makes the score less enjoyable for me. Too much of it sounds like great music with purposefully placed wrong notes.

Not sure I get what you mean. Any examples?

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26 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

That 'balance' actually makes the score less enjoyable for me. Too much of it sounds like great music with purposefully placed wrong notes. I do understand he's trying to make the world sound exciting and unfamiliar at the same time, but the book didn't focus on the unfamiliarity that much.

 

I disagree - the carefully placed “wrong notes” perfectly capture the “not-quite-right” aspects of the wizarding world. The books frequently mention how weird and funny Hogwarts is and I’ve always thought that Williams’ musical approach nails this, even sometimes not going weird enough.

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1 hour ago, bollemanneke said:

That 'balance' actually makes the score less enjoyable for me. Too much of it sounds like great music with purposefully placed wrong notes. I do understand he's trying to make the world sound exciting and unfamiliar at the same time, but the book didn't focus on the unfamiliarity that much.

 

It's important in context. Take note the 1st 2 films present a very wholesome version of the wizarding world. Any menace or unease is provided by the score. So Williams was doing a lot of the heavy lifting to bring a measure of weirdness to the proceedings. I think it actually works incredibly well.

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2 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

Take 2:43 in The Banquet. The Hogwarts theme just sounds deliberately dissonant. Why?

 

I think "Hogwarts Forever" in particular is sort of an homage to Percy Grainger.

 

 

It's just a different atmosphere to bring to it. Melodically folksy, harmonically a little unorthodox. Probably would sound nice with a "cleaner" sound but maybe add an extra spoonful of sugar that it doesn't need. Williams's warm but old and creaky-sounding music still sounds about right to me.

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That's a really interesting perspective, bollemanneke. Definitely not one I share, haha. I mean, you're absolutely right that there's some very deliberate dissonance...that's interesting that it's not "working" for you, though.

 

Unrelated - I totally never realized that the way the beginning of Buckbeak's Flight is edited in the film is actually...correct, I think! The various versions we've heard in that scene and in the credits - across both the OST and the LLL release - all have the revised drum intro plus an edited-down version of the original opening of the cue. If I'm not mistaken, the last note of "Befriending the Hippogriff" would have segued right into those gently propulsive woodwinds, which would have scored the whole takeoff. All these years I thought of that softer passage as flying music, but really it would have been for the rather dramatic and turbulent takeoff. Wild.

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7 hours ago, Faleel J.M. said:

So the original opening was just the bassoons?

 

Yeah, it was a longer version of that passage for bassoons and bass clarinets with string pads underneath. It can't quite be fully recreated with the stuff that's out there, although you can get about half of it from the end credits on the OST. (The LLL version, like the main presentation on the OST, is shorter still.)

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4 minutes ago, Faleel J.M. said:

 

 

 

In the share options where you can set the start time, you can also remove the "share with playlist" option. But I did find it and I see what you mean.

 

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Agreed!

 

Unrelated again - I'm really wondering what the full-length quiet section at the final freeze frame was for. It's edited to be way shorter (and, IMO, more effective) on the OST and in the film, whereas the LLL set has the full version that was recorded. (Which I appreciate, even if it's not my preferred version to listen to!) We'll probably never know, I suppose.

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