Harry Potter 7CD Collection - MUSIC discussion

[Datameister 2,037]

2 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

Maybe someone requested these verbatim statements for those scenes. You're meddling in things that ought not to be meddled in.

 

Exactly my point; like I said, it must have been a case of a temp track (featuring the trailer music) being followed pretty literally, probably at the request of the filmmakers. 🙂

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

You're just assuming that.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

The Queen trusts my judgement, young handmaiden. You should too.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

You assume too much.

[bollemanneke 3,338]

So what would the alternative be, JW being lazy working on a book/score/movie he loved?

[Arpy 4,145]

I remember the critics calling the score repetitive - what a load of bollocks! Isn't that how a theme or motif operates, through repetition?

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

A theme should be stated exactly once, nothing more!

[mstrox 6,647]

The score is very repetitive!

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

Yeah, it uses the same notes over and over!

[Holko 9,499]

Lies! Deceptions!

[bollemanneke 3,338]

Well, before they get to Hogwarts it is rather repetitive at times.

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

There's simply too many notes!

[Alex 2,833]

I usually like CC’s reviews but his Harry Potter takes are absurd, he actually reduced the rating from 4 stars to 3 after reviewing the LLL expansion!

[crocodile 7,989]

One thing I'll agree with is that complete score is not the greatest listening experience. It's choppy and just doesn't flow that well. But that has to do with the music as conceived by Cuaron and Williams.

 

Karol

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Why didn't he break up the ratings like he did for CoS? Does he no longer feel that the OST was worth four stars?

[publicist 4,643]

Another Clemmenson misfire. Both the abandonment of the big main theme - milked beyond its worth in Part I - and the more airy new themes were a simple necessity to address Cuaron's wishes for a less bombastic/theatrical style (and probably also for a less russian, more english folk type of music). 

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

Why would he reduce the rating? That's preposterous.

 

-

 

I actually think Azkaban is brilliantly scored for what the film is. CC has a category that he often uses - Music as written for the film: Here I would give the score 5 stars. Honestly when you are watching the film, the score works extraordinarily well.

 

I think he's getting too hung up on the fact that HP3 is basically a completely 180 from the previous 2 films. The film is so different from HP 1 and HP 2 that it needed to go in a complete different direction. I agree abandoning most of the old themes was perhaps not a good idea but I think the film demanded it. The old themes are so grandiose and lush, they would not fit in the darker thriller like movie that Cuaron made.

 

I think its kinda absurd to give HP2 5 stars and HP3 3 stars. HP2 does not debut significant new material and is for the most part a pleasurable rehash of HP1. HP3 debuts a lot of new ideas, themes, motifs, materials, techniques and textures. Just for that alone it deserves 4 stars or higher.

[crumbs 14,304]

I don't think a single Williams score has personified the director's vision more succinctly than the score for Azkaban, at least in the last several decades. Clummenson comes across as a clueless tit. The concept of strict thematic retention across multiple films might have merit in specific circumstances but it's utterly irrelevant compared to the composer's ultimate responsibility: scoring a film on its own merits.

 

Were one to apply to same idiotic rationale to The Lost World, you would rate that score 0 stars, simply because it abandoned practically everything the previous score established, entirely at the service of a drastically different movie (just as Azkaban dutifully reinvents the Potter series into a more mature, atmospheric tale than what Columbus established in his two films).

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

11 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Were one to apply to same idiotic rationale to The Lost World, you would rate that score 0 stars, simply because it abandoned practically everything the previous score established, entirely at the service of a drastically different movie (just as Azkaban dutifully reinvents the Potter series into a more mature, atmospheric tale than what Columbus established in his two films).

 

I checked and right on the money, CC gives Jurassic Park 5 stars and Lost World 3 stars. At least he's consistent.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

1 hour ago, crumbs said:

I don't think a single Williams score has personified the director's vision more succinctly than the score for Azkaban, at least in the last several decades. Clummenson comes across as a clueless tit. The concept of strict thematic retention across multiple films might have merit in specific circumstances but it's utterly irrelevant compared to the composer's ultimate responsibility: scoring a film on its own merits.

 

Clem seems like the sort of bloke who knocks points off if the CD spines don't match.

[bollemanneke 3,338]

CC is right about senseless discontinuity in this score, but what on earth does he mean by that Hedwig B phrase thing absent from the opening? What is that?!

[Faleel 5,340]

Just now, bollemanneke said:

CC is right about senseless discontinuity in this score, but what on earth does he mean by that Hedwig B phrase thing absent from the opening? What is that?!

The flying/Nimbus theme IIRC?

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

9 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

CC is right about senseless discontinuity in this score, but what on earth does he mean by that Hedwig B phrase thing absent from the opening? What is that?!

 

8 minutes ago, Faleel J.M. said:

The flying/Nimbus theme IIRC?

 

He means that for the title in HP1 and HP2 there is a grandiose horn statement of the B-Phrase of hedwig's theme (typically used for establishing shots of Hogwarts). The one in HP3 he says is weaksuace by comparison. 

[mrbellamy 6,272]

I just can't knock POA for breaking continuity a) because it's so brilliant in its own right and b) because there's really no way to tell how it would have gelled in an 8-score series by Williams. The problem is that the story itself is a bit of a detour from the formula of the first two (particularly no Voldemort) so it remains a question mark. I like to think the Past theme would have stuck around if nothing else and the core stuff from the first two would have been re-integrated, and maybe some of the medieval character would have remained making POA feel essential to the scope of the thing. Instead it's a reset button which is a trend that basically continued with every composer change, leaving the series with a lot of dangling participles and not much of an arc, musically.

[bollemanneke 3,338]

2 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

 

He means that for the title in HP1 and HP2 there is a grandiose horn statement of the B-Phrase of hedwig's theme (typically used for establishing shots of Hogwarts). The one in HP3 he says is weaksuace by comparison. 

That's what I thought, but he keeps banging on about this B phrase being absent when it's clearly present in some cues of which he says it's not.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Maybe he fast forwarded a lot of tracks or fell asleep.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Zzzzz...

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

Azkaban is a case where going against thematic continuity makes it a more interesting score.  I love Harry's Wondrous World and Family Portrait but they would have been terribly out of place in the film (even they did a stupid retooling of the themes to sound darker, which Clemmensen probably suggested)

 

Plus straight thematic reprises are BORING.  

 

[Faleel 5,340]

http://www.filmtracks.com/scoreboard/forum.cgi?read=74438#74458

 

Quote

 

 It's been 3 or 4 months since I re-wrote those reviews (such is life at the moment), but upon hearing the LLL set for the first time, I remember Sorcerer's Stone being exactly what I expected it to be (probably because I had already reviewed the bootleg), Chamber of Secrets being overwhelmingly impressive in expansion, and Prisoner of Azkaban being surprisingly tedious and even more disconnected from the franchise than I had recalled. The expanded presentation of Azkaban was a significant disappointment.

All three scores originally received a 4-star rating, and all of them have now changed. The first two should be in the top 5 or 6 for their years.

 

 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

6 minutes ago, Faleel J.M. said:

http://www.filmtracks.com/scoreboard/forum.cgi?read=74438#74458

 

Quote

 It's been 3 or 4 months since I re-wrote those reviews (such is life at the moment), but upon hearing the LLL set for the first time, I remember Sorcerer's Stone being exactly what I expected it to be (probably because I had already reviewed the bootleg), Chamber of Secrets being overwhelmingly impressive in expansion, and Prisoner of Azkaban being surprisingly tedious and even more disconnected from the franchise than I had recalled. The expanded presentation of Azkaban was a significant disappointment.

All three scores originally received a 4-star rating, and all of them have now changed. The first two should be in the top 5 or 6 for their years.

 

 

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

I fail to see how Azkaban is a 3 star score. How can a score with so many new themes, major set piece cues, and perfectly married to the visuals be a 3 star score. 

[Faleel 5,340]

No old themes! Tedious listening experience! Agitating dissonance!

[mstrox 6,647]

My rating of Azkaban would also decrease in the transition from OST to complete score.

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

That's because the shawm cue's still missing.

[Chewy 2,382]

16 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

That's because the shawm cue's still missing.

I can't stop laughing, thank you. 

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

Was an editing guide for c&c poa posted here? I may have missed it.

[bollemanneke 3,338]

Yes, in a separate thread.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Maybe he noticed the mp3 quality of some tracks.

[Display Name 60]

It's quite easy:

The Philosopher's Stoen is a 4 star score,

The Chamber of Secrets is a 3 star score,

and The Prisoner of Azkaban is a rare 5 star score!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

They're all about a two I guess. Scores about school movies? Ugh!

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

15 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

Yes, in a separate thread.

 its this thread, right?

 

thanks for the tip!

[Chewy 2,382]

Even 7 months after, I love the feeling of knowing we now have everything from those three fantastic scores.

My happiness is enough to bump this thread I guess!

[Holko 9,499]

Well, 99.9% of it, yes. There are still days when I just think of that in disbelief.

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

Yeah, I can't believe we're still missing the shawm cue!

[Chewy 2,382]

17 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Yeah, I can't believe we're still missing the shawm cue!

And the original Buckbeak's Flight intro! It's sad cause I'm sure there is still free space for it on the CDs!

[Holko 9,499]

And Marge Points the Finger alternate from the DVD menus! Though I concede there was absolutely no space on the disc for those 5 seconds. And technically we're missing clean openings necessary to recreate the HP2 tracking and a clean opening for the intended Diagon Alley without the quickly abandoned Reveal Insert over it, so the sessions for 1 aren't completely obsolete.

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

Would it classify as an insert though if it was the original intention?

[Holko 9,499]

Jay called it Reveal Insert the one time he addressed it. We have no more information about it at all.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

We're missing a 5 second cue? Wait here. I'll go get help.

[mrbellamy 6,272]

"These 5 seconds are everything. Without them we are deaf. Without them we leave the fate of JWFan to chance. You have no choice. You must not fail."