Wash. Post Classical Critic: "I used to think the ‘Star Wars’ score was beneath me. I was wrong."

[Will 2,215]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/music/as-a-classical-music-critic-i-used-to-think-the-star-wars-score-was-beneath-me-i-was-wrong/2019/01/17/80fe0744-18f0-11e9-88fe-f9f77a3bcb6c_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.051e39f560ea

 

Some representative excerpts:

 

Quote

I saw “A New Hope” with both the NSO and the BSO in September and found that the experience confirmed something I had started to suspect: As a classical music critic, I was clueless. That is: While I liked John Williams’s music just fine when I first saw the film at age 12, by the time I had attained legal adulthood, laden with a cargo of acquired snobbery about the superiority of Western civilization, I had learned, and bravely parroted, that “film music” was somehow beneath me. And for the next three decades, through all the sequels I didn’t see and the quartet Williams composed for the inauguration of Barack Obama in 2009, which I did, I continued to use “film music” as a pejorative term that, if looked at closely, probably meant to me something akin to “something which one enjoys, but shouldn’t.”

---------

It has taken me half a lifetime to fully realize what most people knew at the first hearing: Good means good, effective means effective. 

------------

My original view of film music as a lesser genre is reinforced by having movies plopped onto orchestra seasons as crowd-pleasers. If you really want to make a case for film music as part of your repertoire, couldn’t you also offer more thoughtfully curated programs than the kind of compendiums — “The Music of Oz,” “Bugs Bunny at the Symphony” — that travel from one orchestra’s pops program to another?

-----------------

My real lesson in learning to admire John Williams lay in recognizing yet again the degree to which many of us who love the arts, both popular and “fine,” live in silos of our own making, affixing labels that have nothing to do with the music and impede our enjoyment of it. This is as true for classical fans, looking down their nose in horror at so-called pop, as it is for fans of indie-rock who are put off by the supposed elitism of the concert hall. Can playing “Star Wars” help people lose all of the “shoulds” and preconceptions? Perhaps not. But you can still go and hear it, and let yourself enjoy it.

 

I was particularly heartened to see this because just a few years ago (as she acknowledges) she had written a pretty harsh review of Air and Simple Gifts that I'd read! (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/20/AR2009012003560.html) (e.g., "It was functional, representational music, and it actually did serve a function: It allowed everyone some downtime before the main event of the oath and the new president's speech.") 

 

She's changed a lot!  Hopefully she is able to now move even beyond SW and to JW's other work. 

 

Also, "Good means good, effective means effective" sounds like something TGP would say (and I mean that in a good way). 

[Arpy 4,145]

Quote

My original view of film music as a lesser genre is reinforced by having movies plopped onto orchestra seasons as crowd-pleasers. If you really want to make a case for film music as part of your repertoire, couldn’t you also offer more thoughtfully curated programs than the kind of compendiums — “The Music of Oz,” “Bugs Bunny at the Symphony” — that travel from one orchestra’s pops program to another?

 

Since the film concert series, it's not hard to understand why orchestras will add them to their programming, they obviously draw in large crowds of people who wouldn't think about going to a concert of classical music. Film music is more accessible, it's that simple.

 

 

[Josh500 1,615]

Readers of (or writers for) the WP or TNYT are generally clueless and snobbish morons. This clueless and snobbish moron just found out that she was wrong, at least on this one particular topic. Good deal!

 

More people should wake up!

[Arpy 4,145]

Yeah, this entire article had a snobbish stench.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

So a professional classical music critic believed that film music was beneath her?

 

It's a good thing she had this recent revelation of being wrong. This thread could've really gone awry.

[karelm 2,901]

17 hours ago, Arpy said:

Yeah, this entire article had a snobbish stench.

 

The complete opposite.  That is very humble for a professional classical music critic to write an article with the title "I was wrong" and sincerely mean that she dismissed it because she used to feel the genre was beneath her. 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

10 hours ago, Arpy said:

Yeah, this entire article had a snobbish stench.

 

Like JWFan.

 

As I've gotten older, I tend to view JW's music similar to the old Batman TV show. I took it seriously as a kid but as an adult I find it rather silly and tongue in cheek. Still entertaining, but often the sugary Mickey Mousey over the top scores that he is most famous for are the musical equivalent of Adam West running around in a goofy outfit.

[SteveMc 2,674]

 

49 minutes ago, Horner's Dynamic Range said:

but often the sugary Mickey Mousey over the top scores that he is most famous for are the musical equivalent of Adam West running around in a goofy outfit.

Which ones are those?

Star Wars?  The second half of Superman?

Nothing worse than The Nutcraker there.

Read this article yesterday.  A good thing to see.  

[Arpy 4,145]

Yes, the writer claims she's now changed her tune, and only just concedes that she might be wrong, but so what? I didn't gather anything from that article that in any way had any positive outlook on film scoring (Outside of JW's contributions) and instead felt an extremely condescending tone.

 

'It's alright guys, film music might not be that bad after all, still not great, but it's okay...well, sometimes...maybe Williams is okay, the rest...not so much...but yeah...'

 

7 hours ago, karelm said:

 

The complete opposite.  That is very humble for a professional classical music critic to write an article with the title "I was wrong" and sincerely mean it because she used to feel simply based on the genre being beneath her. 

 

It's no different from CC (Film tracks) conceding that Hans Zimmer and RCP are not the Antichrist. It's too little, too late and is utterly meaningless.

 

Honestly, I don't like dubstep, I really can't listen to it and avoid it like the plague, but I wouldn't go so far as to view it as a music that's beneath me or any other genre of music, just because it doesn't fit the conventional terms of what makes 'good' music. I'm not going to trash someone else's appreciation for it either.

 

I didn't follow this writer before I read this article, and I doubt I'll follow her work anytime soon.

[karelm 2,901]

59 minutes ago, Arpy said:

Yes, the writer claims she's now changed her tune, and only just concedes that she might be wrong, but so what? I didn't gather anything from that article that in any way had any positive outlook on film scoring (Outside of JW's contributions) and instead felt an extremely condescending tone.

 

'It's alright guys, film music might not be that bad after all, still not great, but it's okay...well, sometimes...maybe Williams is okay, the rest...not so much...but yeah...'

 

 

It's no different from CC (Film tracks) conceding that Hans Zimmer and RCP are not the Antichrist. It's too little, too late and is utterly meaningless.

 

Honestly, I don't like dubstep, I really can't listen to it and avoid it like the plague, but I wouldn't go so far as to view it as a music that's beneath me or any other genre of music, just because it doesn't fit the conventional terms of what makes 'good' music. I'm not going to trash someone else's appreciation for it either.

 

I didn't follow this writer before I read this article, and I doubt I'll follow her work anytime soon.

 

Ahh, the irony of biased dismissal of a critic who now sees the light of their once biased dismissal. 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

It's ironic. He could save others from biased dismissal, but not himself.

[Arpy 4,145]

22 minutes ago, karelm said:

 

Ahh, the irony of biased dismissal of a critic who now sees the light of their once biased dismissal. 

How is it a biased dismissal? I read her article openly and honestly, knew nothing about her prior work. I didn't dismiss her without first reading what she had to say. I don't read the Washington Post, I don't follow classical music or literature concerning classical music.

 

I don't think this article was a sincere concession of being biased. That's it.

 

 

[Josh500 1,615]

That snobbish critic was so full of herself that instead of just writing a positive, honest review of John Williams' music and publish it elsewhere (maybe in another section of the paper or in a different publication), or maybe even in the classical music section itself (why not?), she wrote an entire article about how her holy opinion was wrong and how she is large enough to admit it, while patting herself on the shoulder and waxing philosophical about this topic.

 

It's funny (and significant) this was published in Washington Post of all outlets, though. One of the biggest bs propaganda papers not only in the US but worldwide. They should do a follow-up article on another topic: We honestly thought Hillary would win (honestly, we were 120% sure, convinced and positive), but here again, we were wrong! 😂 

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

I'm not a paid critic and even I think Star Wars is beneath me.

[Arpy 4,145]

12 minutes ago, Warrior of Wet Dreams said:

I'm not a paid critic and even I think Star Wars is beneath me.

Please don't sit on the Star Wars. It's not a toy!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

I wonder what Johnny thinks about being beneath a woman. Can be quite enjoyable truth be told.

[aviazn 273]

While I'm really glad to see these JW reevaluations from classical critics, what has begun to annoy me is that they all seem to think his music boils down to reviving the stylings of the old dead white guys in the classical canon and never acknowledge the tremendous (and innovative) influence of jazz on his music. It's as if jazz is just one of those styles that he "does" when films call for it—just like he can "do" Jewish music and "oriental" music—rather than being woven into the DNA of his writing.

 

They've at least moved on from saying he is recycling Holst and Wagner to saying that he recycles them with consummate skill, and now cite those influences as markers of seriousness. But that is still all they seem to hear, which points to a lack of diversity in their ranks and also fails to identify what so often makes his neoromantic writing feel fresh and exciting.

 

I'm reminded of what Yo-yo Ma told Tim:

Quote

I think that John has had such a rich musical life, and that he has an unbelievably rich inner life. We don’t get to see it. We don’t get to hear him, necessarily, talking about his rich inner life—but we can hear it. So, I’ve never specifically talked to him about this, but I’ve talked to him about the books he’s read, about the people he’s fascinated by, about the different fields of knowledge that he knows about and that he’s interested in. See, I think just by looking at his actions I would say: the poetry of Langston Hughes, what we owe to the black community for the music that they’ve given all of us, that we profit from—he’s very conscious of that.

 

I wish JW would talk more about this part of his inner life.

[gkgyver 1,645]

On 19. Januar 2019 at 8:33 AM, Josh500 said:

Readers of (or writers for) the WP or TNYT are generally clueless and snobbish morons. This clueless and snobbish moron just found out that she was wrong, at least on this one particular topic. Good deal!

 

More people should wake up!

 

Donald approves.

[Oomoog the Ecstatic 314]

This thread ties more to my own thoughts. John Williams is my favorite composer of all time. It doesn't matter if he's stolen many ideas; he's stolen my heart, and I've never been able to find it.

[Score 770]

1 minute ago, Borodin said:

It doesn't matter if he's stolen many ideas; 

 

Don't worry: he hasn't.

[Oomoog the Ecstatic 314]

Relatively speaking to other composers, it was much harder for the classical composers to be diverse because all they had were those concepts and traditions, but I don't think it matters: I don't listen to much Beethoven not because he is not original, but because I think composers after Beethoven have simply written way better music than he has. Yes, that period called the 20th century, when orchestration was improved a-hundred-fold, melodies became catcher through Jazz and other influences, diversity and imagination were off the wall, I love the Russians. Not everyone was great, but many were. I'm glad some people are deciding to remember this amazing time.

 

On the other hand, some people just really like certain composers and can't find later writers to top them. That's how I am with Williams and Borodin. Other people into heavy classical, just develop an ear or taste for that era.

 

 

More on a serious note, the Star Wars score is often beneath me, what's the deal? I have it stored on my phone. I should hope it's beneath everyone ! Unless they're too important or something to not have it on their phone! 

[JoeinAR 1,949]

It reads like a trump supporter who suddenly realizes what he's done. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

On 1/30/2019 at 12:52 PM, Borodin said:

More on a serious note, the Star Wars score is often beneath me, what's the deal? I have it stored on my phone. I should hope it's beneath everyone ! Unless they're too important or something to not have it on their phone! 

 

What the fuck are you talking about?

[rough cut 1,714]

I think it’s a kind of play with words... like it’s constantly on your phone, so it’s supposed to be physically beneath you at all times... I guess, given that we all have it on our phones and that we constantly sit on our phones. 😂

[JoeinAR 1,949]

2 hours ago, Stefancos said:

 

What the fuck are you talking about?

He is expressing  his douchebagness.

[Oomoog the Ecstatic 314]

The Vader theme just played out my ass, it was my grandma calling.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

57 minutes ago, JoeinAR said:

He is expressing  his douchebagness.

 

Obviously has no respect for John Williams!

[Oomoog the Ecstatic 314]

Wait, that was just the Mexican food from earlier.

 

False alarm!

[Bayesian 1,353]

Or any respect for Beethoven.

[Oomoog the Ecstatic 314]

Or any for Borodin for that matter... chemistry is not that important!

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

I do not agree with you. Ludwig van Beethoven is one of the greatest composers of all time. Period.

 

Alexander Borodin is also one of the most underrated composers of all time. 

[Oomoog the Ecstatic 314]

Only a tiny minority of people would call John Williams the greatest. I'm considered in that minority.

 

By contrast, there's many more people who consider Beethoven good, but certainly not one of the greatest writers of music anymore. Not actually as rare as the first statement. I prefer thousands of more composers, I think Beethoven is very dated and traditional.

 

2 hours ago, rough cut said:

I think it’s a kind of play with words... like it’s constantly on your phone, so it’s supposed to be physically beneath you at all times... I guess, given that we all have it on our phones and that we constantly sit on our phones. 😂

 

You are smart.

[John 2,032]

6 minutes ago, Borodin said:

Only a tiny minority of people would call John Williams the greatest. I'm considered in that minority.

 

By contrast, there's many more people who consider Beethoven good, but certainly not one of the greatest writers of music anymore. Not actually as rare as the first statement. I prefer thousands of more composers, I think Beethoven is very dated and traditional.

 

i don't even know what to say

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

Sigh.  

 

(awaits this list of thousands of composers that are better than Beethoven)

Just now, John said:

i don't even know what to say

Exactly.

[Oomoog the Ecstatic 314]

Why do you want a list of who "I" consider my favorite composers? Is it that important?

 

No, not to everyone it's huge about Beethoven. I'm a 20th century fan.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I dont understand the comparison between film music and classical  music. I have only had the smallest interst in classical music. I am much more interested in John Williams than in classical or even films scores as a whole. 

 

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

There's the tiny fact that a lot of classical music sounds much like JW's various styles of film music.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

3 minutes ago, Borodin said:

Why do you want a list of who "I" consider my favorite composers? Is it that important?

I'm just curious to hear these thousands of composers, or at least a decent number by the sounds of things, that are superior to Beethoven in your opinion. 

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Not always

 

I never think of Clsssical music listening to Earthquake and the Towering Inferno. 

[Oomoog the Ecstatic 314]

To me, something can be like Beethoven or even stolen from him, but it can a vast improvement in the overall quality, variation and composition. That merely means that the vast improvement is a better composition than the original, this is how we ended up with 20th century epics and John Williams. They improved the music in massive ways. If you like a certain artist more, it means they're better to you. For me that's an enormous list of 20th and 21st century composers, who were all influenced by those before them, such as Beethoven, but have vastly improved the sound of music we hear.

 

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

I would put Borodin higher on my preference list than Beethoven, but I still think that Beethoven was a greater composer than Borodin.

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

Star Trek > Horner > Bruch > Raff > Beethoven

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

You like Bruch? Can't say I listen to him too much. We all have our preferences.

[Oomoog the Ecstatic 314]

9 minutes ago, The Illustrious Jerry said:

I would put Borodin higher on my preference list than Beethoven, but I still think that Beethoven was a greater composer than Borodin.

 

I see what you mean, I'm just talking about my subjective taste. For example, I don't see a big reason for listening to much Beethoven anymore even if he was amazingly inventive for the time.

[Fabulin 3,506]

.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

No!

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

Those aren't Trek scores.  They're inoffensive, vaguely Trekish love letters.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

1 minute ago, Fabulin said:

Giacchino's Star Trek?

Giacchino's Star Trek is more Giacchino than it is Star Trek.

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

2 minutes ago, The Illustrious Jerry said:

You like Bruch?

 

I haven't heard anything by him in decades probably.  It was a joke.