Ennio Morricone is complimentary but critical of John Williams in his new book

[Jurassic Shark 12,023]

1 minute ago, Stefancos said:

I never said Ennio wasn't a bit of an intellectual twat!

 

Fixed!

[crumbs 14,296]

A bit of twat?

[Jurassic Shark 12,023]

10 minutes ago, crumbs said:

A bit of twat?

 

Read again.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I don't mind a bit of twat once in a while.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,493]

Post of the week! 

[Nick Parker 3,040]

5 hours ago, Stefancos said:

I don't mind a bit of twat once in a while.

 

Once in a while...I know that all too well....

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Gotta work with what you're given, bruv!

[Eplicon 53]

Didn't critic Royal S. Brown also make comments along those lines of how Williams actually set back the progress of film music by going all out retro for Star Wars?  I don't remember the exact wording, but it was something to that effect.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

It’s okay Hans Zimmer made up for lost time. 

[Lewya 360]

12 hours ago, Eplicon said:

Didn't critic Royal S. Brown also make comments along those lines of how Williams actually set back the progress of film music by going all out retro for Star Wars?  I don't remember the exact wording, but it was something to that effect.

He did (and yes, I know that there are more modernistic elements in his score, but still that is not what most of the score was about, it was retro).

[Marian Schedenig 8,172]

19 hours ago, Eplicon said:

Didn't critic Royal S. Brown also make comments along those lines of how Williams actually set back the progress of film music by going all out retro for Star Wars?  I don't remember the exact wording, but it was something to that effect.

 

You could probably say the same thing about Mendelssohn and classical music, if you wanted to.

[Jediwashington 59]

On 3/12/2019 at 2:12 PM, Marian Schedenig said:

 

You could probably say the same thing about Mendelssohn and classical music, if you wanted to.

 

Ain't that the truth? Though the irony would be lost on them, most likely...

[publicist 4,643]

All this stuff and much more important things are to be found in this wonderful book: https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07N8YXWKM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_d_asin_title_o00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Of course it's set in a broader context and the intellectual depths of Morricone's thoughts go far beyond such simplistic stuff. And he obviously is a famous chess player, too (winning against Boris Spasski).

[Jurassic Shark 12,023]

Well, that's exactly the book that this thread is dedicated to.

[publicist 4,643]

You think i wade through all of this?

[Jurassic Shark 12,023]

Not at all, but one would think the thread title is a giveaway. At least the first post is.

[publicist 4,643]

It's abbreviated in the forum overview.

[Fabulin 3,509]

.

 

[publicist 4,643]

40 minutes ago, Fabulin said:

P.S. I want to exclude from the conversation the notion that he "only repeated" what Korngold, Rózsa and others did. As far as I have been able to compare, he did their job better---which is the definition of improvement.

 

He certainly didn't 'do it better' (a typical ignorant statement), he just updated it with more current stylings. 

[Fabulin 3,509]

<disagreement>

[publicist 4,643]

How old are you, 10?

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

Korngold is better than John Williams because Korngold has a way cooler-sounding name.

[benefactor 3]

John Williams speaks with Ennio Morricone’s wife about his pointless Star Wars criticism.

[Jurassic Shark 12,023]

10 minutes ago, benefactor said:

John Williams speaks with Ennio Morricone’s wife about his pointless Star Wars critism.

 

This warrants its own thread!

 

 

[DrTenma 116]

I see the point in what Morricone says but I think he's making the mistake of evaluating Star Wars after knowing it was a huge success. In 1977 what Williams did was not mainstream nor a commercial choice. After the success Hollywood wanted every movie to sound and feel as Star Wars, but that's another story.

[Ricardo Mortimer 43]

Morricone's music for sci fi movies is pretty shitty.  For example: Mission to Mars...The Music does not fit there. It's hell to listen and watch. 

[Martinland 357]

15 minutes ago, Ricardo Mortimer said:

Morricone's music for sci fi movies is pretty shitty.  For example: Mission to Mars...The Music does not fit there. It's hell to listen and watch. 

I, on the other hand, adore what he did for John Carpenter's The Thing. (Sci-Fi, right?)

There are some amazingly atmospheric/minimalistic/modernistic pieces in there, especially even the unused tracks, one of which surprisingly (at least for me, sitting in the movie theatre) turned up in a suspenseful scene of The Heightful Eight.

[Ricardo Mortimer 43]

Morricone's Oscar for The Hateful Eight/The Thing is questionable. The Academy changes the rules of the game every year. Morricone didn't deserve it. 

[WilliamsStarShip2282 308]

In that case, what makes these "big awards", worth anything? Giving him an award because he hadn't gotten one already, instead of actually getting one for the work he did, really cheapens the award. I always thought the Kennedy Centers honor was just a cheap way for presidents to meet people they're a fan of. Every celebratory, American or not, has one or will probably get one at some point. It's not who will, it's when will it be their turn. 

 

I kind of enjoyed the book though, although I'm not really a big fan of his. I do think it's very interesting though the whole second half of the book more or less devoted to the concert stage and the history behind that. I do think him being overly critical about Star Wars is A). he seems to hate things that are a big hit besides his own work B). would just be following the trend at that point of only making weird sounds for space, as he suggested.

 

For someone who is also so critical, he talks about himself as if everything he put to paper is a work of genius and has never been done before, neither of which is true. With the results being especially unimpressive for me at least. I find a lot of times his orchestrations just kind of suck. To me, he seems like much more of a melodist than anything else.

[crumbs 14,296]

How did that score even qualify? The FYC itself was only 31 minutes long and, based on this interview, huge portions of the score weren't even written for the film:

 

Quote

Tarantino reveals that Morricone explained to him, “'I wrote a whole orchestra score [for ‘The Thing’], and I wrote a whole synthesizer score ... and the only thing he used in the entire movie was the synthesizer main title [track].’ So basically, if you stay away from the synthesizer main title, all that music that’s on the soundtrack album has never been used in a movie ever. So, he goes, ‘What I can do, is I’ll write the theme…and with the other ‘Thing’ pieces of music, now you have your original score that’s never been used in a movie before.’ ”

 

https://www.indiewire.com/2015/12/quentin-tarantino-reveals-hateful-eight-score-features-unused-music-by-ennio-morricone-from-john-carpenters-the-thing-98001/

 

It just shows up the Oscars for the farce they are, especially when it comes to all the times Williams was questionably snubbed. Fortunately the music department clearly acknowledge extraneous factors when it comes to determining nominations (like the fact Williams wrote nearly 4 hours of music for TROS) and not just the paltry FYC that gets distributed, but then you have clueless morons like the anonymous director who slagged off his nomination as "bullshit." Clearly just an egotistical tosser with less talent than Williams holds in his left toenail.

[Fabulin 3,509]

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[Jurassic Shark 12,023]

3 minutes ago, First TROS March Accolyte said:

Melodist less than anything else. That's how I would put it. Except that simple "Good, Bad, and Ugly" whistle/harmonica/ww trio, which I have to admit is a clever little idea, there is not one worthy melody in his ouvre as far as I'm concerned. Change my mind.

 

Gabriel's oboe?

[Fabulin 3,509]

.

[Tydirium 1,166]

7 hours ago, crumbs said:

How did that score even qualify? The FYC itself was only 31 minutes long and, based on this interview, huge portions of the score weren't even written for the film:

 

 

https://www.indiewire.com/2015/12/quentin-tarantino-reveals-hateful-eight-score-features-unused-music-by-ennio-morricone-from-john-carpenters-the-thing-98001/

 

It just shows up the Oscars for the farce they are, especially when it comes to all the times Williams was questionably snubbed. Fortunately the music department clearly acknowledge extraneous factors when it comes to determining nominations (like the fact Williams wrote nearly 4 hours of music for TROS) and not just the paltry FYC that gets distributed, but then you have clueless morons like the anonymous director who slagged off his nomination as "bullshit." Clearly just an egotistical tosser with less talent than Williams holds in his left toenail.

 

Wow... Had not heard about this, but it makes Morricone look like he was too lazy/not willing to put in the effort to actually score the film proper. Either way, I never found it to be an Oscar-worthy score.

[Jurassic Shark 12,023]

26 minutes ago, First TROS March Accolyte said:

Is that the best he can do? Well... nice orchestrations.

 

Ecstasy of Gold? The Strength of the Righteous?