Should modern re-recorded scores make a comeback?

[Matt C 452]

I remember back in the 1990s and early noughties it was a pretty regular thing. Not just for avoiding reuse fees for union performed scores (like Varese's The Black Cauldron), but it allowed casual fans to buy a compilation of music from a franchise in one package (numerous Star Wars trilogy recordings).

 

Not that it hasn't gone completely, Tadlow is still doing re-recordings of Golden Age and obscure Goldsmith scores -- but should re-recordings for modern movies make a comeback? Obviously it's more cost prohibitive now and the rights more complicated than they were twenty years ago, but still.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Since the original recordings are typically the best... no. 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Film scores often have relatively crappy to mediocre recording quality. More power to Telarc, Tadlow and RCA I say!

[A24 4,331]

1 hour ago, dougie said:

Film scores often have relatively crappy to mediocre recording quality.

 

Especially old scores. Love the first rerecordings by Goldsmith and the National Philharmonic Orchestra such as:

 

 

It sounds better than the previous cassette tape recording.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And I'm pretty sure a rerecording of the original Star Wars album* in an accurate, minutious way, and with the latest technology, conducted by Williams, recorded at Abbey Road Studios, would be exactly what the doctor ordered.

 

*

 

I mean, I love it, but there's room for improvement, especially when it comes to the CD version, which sounds more harsh than the original LP version (which some find too muffled sounding)

 

[Holko 9,519]

Let Mike have a go with the original SW elements before jumping on the rerecord train.

[A24 4,331]

4 minutes ago, Holko said:

Let Mike have a go with the original SW elements before jumping on the rerecord train.

 

Why would it be any different than the other rereleases?

 

[Holko 9,519]

Because it would be remastered/mixed by someone who gives a shit about what he's doing for once?

[Thor 7,493]

Yes, I'm kinda bummed that the rerecording industry is not what it was only some 10-15 years ago. I almost always prefer rerecordings over original recordings when it comes to scores of a certain age.

 

(and of course, the 'renaissance' should start with a rerecording of STORY OF A WOMAN or other unreleased JW scores!)

[bollemanneke 3,342]

Yes they should.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

1 hour ago, Alexcremers said:

 

Especially old scores.

 

Even newer ones sound pretty meh, I've found.

[1977 1,743]

I miss the regular Telarc themed re-recordings that were a staple during the 80s and 90s. 

 

Kunzel's SpaceCamp rendition easily kicks the equivalent track on the OST into touch (both in sound quality and performance). His Star Trek II, Star Trek IV and The Right Stuff recordings ain't no slouches either.

 

I'd have loved a Kunzel/CPO performance of themes from Horner's Battle Beyond the Stars and Krull.

[mstrox 6,651]

I would love more full score rerecordings, but I fear that the money isn't really there.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

It's a matter of money, then?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

$5,000? I had no idea it was so much. I won't pay it.

[A24 4,331]

I remember that they suddenly stopped using these renowned English orchestras and maestro engineers, and went to Prague instead, for budget reasons. It was the end of my interest in rerecordings.

[mstrox 6,651]

CoPPO and Tadlow are reportedly doing some excellent work together, even if I don't care much about the scores they're doing.

[rough cut 1,714]

Yes, sure, why not.

[Thor 7,493]

2 hours ago, mstrox said:

CoPPO and Tadlow are reportedly doing some excellent work together, even if I don't care much about the scores they're doing.

 

Absolutely! They're a fantastic team. But I agree it would have been more interesting if they chose projects that didn't already have fine soundtrack albums to begin with; something new and fresh and previously unreleased would be great.

[Jurassic Shark 12,054]

Their Lawrence of Arabia and Taras Bulba are must-haves.

[Holko 9,519]

I have their Thief of Bagdad, Conan and Ben-Hur, all 3 great.

[Jurassic Shark 12,054]

I don't feel the need for the Ben-Hur rerecording, since the Rhino/Sony double album has such great sound.

[Holko 9,519]

Did they magically fix the pretty terrible Rome cues?

Does it have the original Entr'acte?

Does it even have the full unedited Parade of the Charioteers?

 

Looking at Presto samples, no to all. I'm very much satisfied with my Tadlow based on that, while simultaneously being happy that the original recordings are preserved and available.

[Jurassic Shark 12,054]

Well, it's not perfect, but close. I can't remember issues with the Rome cues, but it's a long time since I listened to the whole score. I guess I automatically make some allowances when the source material is that old. If I'm in the mood for an extended Parade of the Charioteers, I just listen to JW's take on his Summon the Heroes album.

 

 

[Holko 9,519]

7 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Well, it's not perfect, but close. I can't remember issues with the Rome cues, but it's a long time since I listened to the whole score. If I'm in the mood for an extended Parade of the Charioteers, I just listen to JW's take on his Summon the Heroes album.

 

To clarify then: "Rome cues" refers to multiple cues that were recorded in Rome and sound pretty bad - like Charioteers. And that itself was severely edited down in the film from the original recording (which was pretty much identical to the concert piece), around half of it was cut, which the FSM amd Rhino replicate for some damn reason - time, I guess? But then they also stick alternates at the end, at the expense of probably the most iconic cue? 

[mstrox 6,651]

For me, oftentimes a modern recording removes some of the sonic quality I like about golden age scores.

[Jurassic Shark 12,054]

1 minute ago, Holko said:

 

To clarify then: "Rome cues" refers to multiple cues that were recorded in Rome and sound pretty bad - like Charioteers. And that itself was severely edited down in the film from the original recording (which was pretty much identical to the concert piece), around half of it was cut, which the FSM amd Rhino replicate for some damn reason - time, I guess? But then they also stick alternates at the end, at the expense of probably the most iconic cue? 

 

Yeah, if I remember correctly the Rome cues involved a lot of the fanfare cues. The reason the uncut version of Charioteers was left out on the Rhino release was that it couldn't be found. For the FSM release they discovered it, but in horrendous sound.

[Holko 9,519]

From the short Rhino sample, Charioteers indeed didn't sound as bad as I remembered, but the performance or mix still wasn't fantastic.

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

32 minutes ago, Holko said:

Did they magically fix the pretty terrible Rome cues?

Does it have the original Entr'acte?

Does it even have the full unedited Parade of the Charioteers?

 

The FSM Ben-Hur does have the original Entr'acte (and that alone was easily worth the price of the set), and better sound than the Rhino. And with all the old album recordings in the package, I'd expect it also has a full Parade of the Charioteers somewhere.

 

But the Tadlow is brilliant, also includes the original Entr'acte, and high-quality recordings of everything, including all the marches. Better choir, too. And it has a good price. I'm happy to have both, but if you only want one, the Tadlow is just as worthy as the FSM.

[Jurassic Shark 12,054]

 

Anyway, I'm looking forward to Tadlow's re-recording of King of Kings!

 

4 minutes ago, Holko said:

From the short Rhino sample, Charioteers indeed didn't sound as bad as I remembered, but the performance or mix still wasn't fantastic.

 

I agree there's a noticeable drop in sound quality for the Rome cues. I guess it doesn't bother me that much cause the Rhino release was such an improvement over the earlier releases.

[Holko 9,519]

My ultimate reasons for choosing the Tadlow over the FSM were the better sound and a cleaner, to me much preferable program. Just looking at the FSM tracklist with its 200 alternates and choir bits and other albums all over the place makes my head hurt. My much much preferred original Ent'racte is buried somewhere in there, two different but not actually different takes (plus a rerecording?) , while the main program has the repeated opening and the butchered Charioteers.

[Jurassic Shark 12,054]

There's a good recording of an extended suite that Rozsa did for Decca in the late 70s, conducting The National Philharmonic Orchestra! The tempi are a bit slower than on the original recording, but it's a good album. It has the uncut Parade of the Charioteers.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Many of the City of Prague recordings sound like they were performed by Susan Sarandon's elementary school band from the Witches of Eastwick before they threw away the music.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Prague just screams Silva Screen cheapies.

[Jurassic Shark 12,054]

1 minute ago, Ghostbusters II said:

Many of the City of Prague recordings sound like they were performed by Susan Sarandon's elementary school band from the Witches of Eastwick before they threw away the music.

 

Yeah, but try telling @Thor that!

 

[Thor 7,493]

I don't take comments like that seriously anymore, to be honest. It just shows that whoever expresses such sentiments, has not paid attention and has no idea what he's talking about. Yes, the Prague orchestra was a bit hit and miss in the 90s (mostly hit, though), but they've come a long way since then. They've had 25 years to refine their film music skills, and today, they're one of the finest and best orchestras to perform film music in the world.

 

It's a bit like complaining about Danny Elfman not writing his own scores, and that Steve Bartek is the real composer.

 

The 80s and 90s want you back, folks.

[Jurassic Shark 12,054]

It's all about the time allotted to rehearsals. The business model of Silva Screen is to offer cheap rerecordings, and to be able to do that they have to cut down on rehearsal time. Tadlow's Prague recordings are good though, and of course more expensive.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

I love those Goldsmith recordings of North! 

 

I guess the question is, what modern scores do you think would warrant a re-recording?

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

7 hours ago, Thor said:

The 80s and 90s want you back, folks.

 

And we want the 80s and 90s back.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

1 hour ago, Ghostbusters II said:

 

And we want the 80s and 90s back.

 

Well, you're not gonna get a green card with that attitude, pal!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Why don't you give me a jingle in the year 2000.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

8 hours ago, Thor said:

It's a bit like complaining about Danny Elfman not writing his own scores, and that Steve Bartek Shirley Walker is the real composer.

 

Fixed!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

6 minutes ago, dougie said:

 

Fixed!

 

What are you talking about buddy, the phone lines are over there.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I got three thousand phones out in Greenwich Village! I got about eight million miles of cable I gotta check! You guys are gonna come shake my monkey tree again?!

[crocodile 8,000]

12 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Yeah, if I remember correctly the Rome cues involved a lot of the fanfare cues. The reason the uncut version of Charioteers was left out on the Rhino release was that it couldn't be found. For the FSM release they discovered it, but in horrendous sound.

Weren't these recorded outside anyway?

 

Karol

[Brundlefly 2,385]

Yes, they should!

 

Tadlow not only delievers oustandingly faithful, perfectly sounding re-recordings, they also make those titles widely available for a very decent price! Hopefully, they will do more popular Goldsmith scores that are hard to enjoy due to their original recording's sound. My personal favourite would be Planet of the Apes!

[Matt C 452]

On 4/2/2019 at 3:08 PM, Ghostbusters II said:

Many of the City of Prague recordings sound like they were performed by Susan Sarandon's elementary school band from the Witches of Eastwick before they threw away the music.

 

The earlier recordings, yes.

 

But have you heard Goldsmith's The Salamander? The orchestra's performance is terrific and feels like Goldsmith conducted it himself. Absolutely beautiful.

[Jurassic Shark 12,054]

But that's not on the cheapo label Silva Screen.

[Thor 7,493]

Not sure why you're constantly so hard on Silva, JP. They've done some great albums over the years, especially in recent years. Their HUNGER GAMES album, for example, is all I ever need from that franchise. They also do original soundtracks, not just rerecordings and compilations. You do know they were the ones who released JANE EYRE, for example?

[Jurassic Shark 12,054]

I actually have their release of the Jane Eyre album, but that's of course not with the CoPPA. They were also involved with the DCC Raiders, and that's great!  I just don't support their business model when it comes to new orchestral recordings - fleeing to Prague to avoid union rules, at the expense of quality.

[Thor 7,493]

1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

I actually have their release of the Jane Eyre album, but that's of course not with the CoPPA. They were also involved with the DCC Raiders, and that's great!  I just don't support their business model when it comes to new orchestral recordings - fleeing to Prague to avoid union rules, at the expense of quality.

 

Well, it's the 'expense' of quality I don't agree with. There is an argument to made about outsourcing, of course, but it's not necessarily a decline in quality. Many Norwegian composers employ East European orchestras, in Prague, Bratislava, Moldova and other places because they get BOTH quality AND cheaper rates than if they were to record it here in Norway. KORK and other orchestras have become better at offering competing prices in recent years, after many years of frustration that composers preferred foreign options, but they're still not quite there in terms of offering BOTH as a viable option. Especially not for smaller film productions.

 

The CoPP is almost up there now, with the LSO and Hollywood pickup orchestras, in terms of sheer film music skills and especially in terms of versatility, so it's no wonder that they're frequently employed.