The Rise of Skywalker The Rise of Skywalker score begins recording in June 2019

[JohnnyD 1,220]

6 hours ago, Jay said:

It's really happening.  Nine Star Wars scores from the maestro.

 

Technically, 10 if you count Solo: A Star Wars Story; he was involved with that from the beginning, and while John Powell composed the rest of the score, the Maestro was also involved with the scoring process.

[Chen G. 3,941]

Nine films and associated material.

A concert piece and a few cues (for Solo)

A Theme Park.

 

45 minutes ago, Fabulin said:

An interesting difference to point out is that Shore composed all of LOTR in 4 years, and Wagner, although he worked for a quarter of a century, did it also a sort of continuous creative work. Meanwhile Williams scored Star Wars episodes at different stages of his composing career and under a very high time pressure, and the result is that the trilogies have each their unique sound palette, taken from Williams' most recent intuitive tendencies at the moment of their creation.

 

Yeah, all three works have their unique attributes, but all three deal with mythological subject matters, stretch over multiple entries which accumulate in a large canvas, and use leitmotives as their foundation.

 

And you're absolutely right, each trilogy has its own soundscape, and there are major variations even within each trilogy: compare The Phantom Menace with Attack of the Clones, for instance.

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

Just can't wait!! I think this is going to  be the greatest of the trilogies, musically speaking. 

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

I can certainly appreciate you're excitement on that remark, @hornist! 

[karelm 2,902]

This will be something special.  Not just a culmination of a trilogy, but a culmination of a life.  The magnum opus of JW, unparalleled in film music I believe.  Plus JJ is a very nostalgic OT fan boy and is fully aware of the gravity of this opportunity.

[Bayesian 1,354]

5 minutes ago, karelm said:

This will be something special.  Not just a culmination of a trilogy, but a culmination of a life.  The magnum opus of JW, unparalleled in film music I believe.  Plus JJ is a very nostalgic OT fan boy and is fully aware of the gravity of this opportunity.

Let's hope that also means he gave JW that cameo we all want!

[karelm 2,902]

1 minute ago, Bayesian said:

Let's hope that also means he gave JW that cameo we all want!

We don't ALL care if he's in the bloody films.  He is the soul of the franchise and is in its DNA.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I'm gonna keep my expectations in check!  My main prediction is that he will deliver a great score for this particular film.

[Bayesian 1,354]

38 minutes ago, karelm said:

We don't ALL care if he's in the bloody films.  He is the soul of the franchise and is in its DNA.

Go on, tell us how you really feel.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

2 hours ago, karelm said:

We don't ALL care if he's in the bloody films.  He is the soul of the franchise and is in its DNA.

Obviously that's just a minor wish compared to our hopes for the score.

 

Nonetheless, JJ Baby- don't fail us!

[King Mark 3,624]

I dunno, TFA sounded pretty "restrained" compared to TLJ. I hope JJ did not influence this

 

I want Wiliams to go all "Galaxy's Edge" for TROS. 

 

Well if he doesn't , at least I got one of my favorite SW pieces from somewhere else

2 hours ago, karelm said:

This will be something special.  Not just a culmination of a trilogy, but a culmination of a life.  The magnum opus of JW, unparalleled in film music I believe.  

I keep thinking of the monumental finale with a recap of all the major themes interwoven in epic proportions..something like Reunion of Friends but even more bombastic. The Finale RotJ never got .Yub Nub was my biggest letdown of JW's career

 

I hope we don't get a piano bit like BFG with a scene Rey sipping tea on her porch with Luke's force ghost

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

3 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

I'm gonna keep my expectations in check!  My main prediction is that he will deliver a great score for this particular film.

 

This! I don't think its fair to expect anything more.

[Arpy 4,145]

YOU CALL YOURSELVES JWFANS?

 

 

 

Yeah, I'm tempering my expectations after TLJ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Quintus 5,399]

This is one of the most enjoyable interviews I've ever had the pleasure to read. Surely the title of the thread here doesn't do the main subject of the piece the justice and attention she deserves?

 

 

All those years I spent listening and paying attention to the end credits of my favourite movies, Sandy's was a name I affectionately grew used to seeing scroll by in a movie with a John Williams score, seemingly without fail. What part did she play, I thought? "She must have a good relationship with Williams."

 

Such an insightful interview from a remarkable woman, a long and fascinating backstory all of her own. She's so honest and open in her words, candid, even.

 

I feel better for feeling like I know about her challenges and accomplishments a little bit more than I did. It's nice to have an appreciation for her contributions to the industry, to be able to build a bigger picture of what happens behind the scenes of these big musical productions - and knowing now how pivotal Sandy's role is and has been on soundtracks I've been fond of all my life.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I really like how Williams himself said he's no better now than he was years ago. Take that, Hornist.

[Chen G. 3,941]

6 hours ago, karelm said:

Not just a culmination of a trilogy, but a culmination of a life.

 

I think that all this "culmination of nine episodes" rhethoric is more of a marketing strategy (telling fans what they want to hear) than a true statement about the film. I find it hard to believe that this film will resolve all nine films (including the prequel trilogy). Attempting to do so will likely weigh the movie down. JJ Abrams better (and probably will) focus on bringing closure to the sequel trilogy alone: that's hard enough a task, as it is.

 

The reason I'm saying this is that I'm unsure of how this will effect the music's role as a culmination. Williams sometimes plays off of the narrative, and sometimes doesn't, but surely he cannot score the film in a way that's completely unrelated to how the story unfolds, and so is also likely to provide a culmination to the themes of the sequel trilogy, and maybe The Force Theme.

[crumbs 14,287]

He'll score the film on its own merits. Revenge of the Sith doesn't really payoff or resolve musical threads established in the first two prequels, for example. It practically abandons the love theme other than a few cameos (and Anakin's Theme gets a single reprise), instead writing a new lament theme that prominently underscores the collapse of Anakin/Padme's relationship (also -- more experimental, non-thematic ideas like Padme's Ruminations and Leaving Mustafar).

 

That said, as far as sequel scores go, TLJ is far more reliant on the ideas raised in his previous score than, say, AOTC to TPM.

[Chen G. 3,941]

46 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Anakin's Theme gets a single reprise

 

Anakin's Theme was always intended specifically for Young Anakin, though.

[crumbs 14,287]

There's far less direct character themes in the prequels, too. Compare that to the sequel trilogy where Rey, Kylo (x3), Poe, Rose and the Resistance all get specific new themes.

 

In the prequels, Obi-Wan just retains the Force Theme, Yoda retains his old theme, the Emperor retains his old theme, Jar Jar and Qui-Gon's themes are exclusive to TPM, Anakin's Theme is all-but-abandoned after TPM, Padme never gets her own theme, and Across the Stars is practically abandoned after AOTC.

[Smaug The Iron 510]

32 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Across the Stars is practically abandoned after AOTC.

Is it? It still appears in atleast 5 cues. 

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

4 hours ago, Ghostbusters II said:

I really like how Williams himself said he's no better now than he was years ago. Take that, Hornist.

 

Nah, he is just being too modest again. He also said, he knows more than years ago. So he doesn't need to show/proof anything, thats why there is more heart and soul in his latest scores. 😍

[crumbs 14,287]

13 minutes ago, Smaug the iron said:

Is it? It still appears in atleast 5 cues. 

 

Hmmm, is it really that many? I remembered the reunion cues (both on Coruscant and Mustafar) but forgot about the short references in Anakin's Dream and Padme's Ruminations. What's the other?

[Smaug The Iron 510]

4 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Hmmm, is it really that many? I remembered the reunion cues (both on Coruscant and Mustafar) but forgot about the short references in Anakin's Dream and Padme's Ruminations. What's the other?

As far as I know Across the Stars is in this cues:

2M4 Revisiting Padme 

2M6 Scenes and Dreams (Two times)

4M5a Padme’s Ruminations

4M6 I Am the Senate

6M3 Padme’s Visit

[crumbs 14,287]

Just now, Smaug the iron said:

4M6 I Am the Senate

 

Where's that one? Most of that cue is dialled out in the film anyway, so I've probably not heard it in complete form.

[Smaug The Iron 510]

It was cut from the film. 

You can hear it at 5.10

 

[King Mark 3,624]

20 hours ago, Quintus said:

 

 

 

All those years I spent listening and paying attention to the end credits of my favourite movies, Sandy's was a name I affectionately grew used to seeing scroll by in a movie with a John Williams score, seemingly without fail. What part did she play, I thought? "She must have a good relationship with Williams."

 

 

 it's the first time I hear of this Sandy De Crescent

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You honestly never noticed the name? Ever read the credits on CD booklets?

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

On May 18, 2019 at 7:53 AM, Smaug the iron said:

2M6 Scenes and Dreams (Two times)

An amazing cue, to be sure! Such pathos, and the violin solo is legendary!

On May 18, 2019 at 6:51 AM, crumbs said:

Compare that to the sequel trilogy where Rey, Kylo (x3), Poe, Rose and the Resistance all get specific new themes.

Kylo (x3)? I thought there were only two? The fanfare and the descending motifs.

[Bofur01 245]

36 minutes ago, The Illustrious Jerry said:

An amazing cue, to be sure! Such pathos, and the violin solo is legendary!

Kylo (x3)? I thought there were only two? The fanfare and the descending motifs.

 

There's that noodling upwards low strings bit, as heard after the big Kylo Ren theme early in "Escape", among other places.

[crumbs 14,287]

55 minutes ago, The Illustrious Jerry said:

Kylo (x3)? I thought there were only two? The fanfare and the descending motifs. 

 

17 minutes ago, Bofur01 said:

There's that noodling upwards low strings bit, as heard after the big Kylo Ren theme early in "Escape", among other places.

 

Correct. It's also the first motif heard after the section with Rey's Theme in Jedi Steps and Finale. Williams kindly placed all 3 musical ideas for Kylo Ren together in TFA's credits suite.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

18 minutes ago, Bofur01 said:

 

There's that noodling upwards low strings bit, as heard after the big Kylo Ren theme early in "Escape", among other places.

 

One of my favorite ideas from these new scores. Classic Star Wars, it's so dramatic. My only hope is that gets a better workout than the almost nothing it's gotten so far. 

[Chen G. 3,941]

Oh come on, that's not a theme: its just an intro/outro to the other Kylo Ren ideas.

 

There are two Kylo Ren ideas. They start off as quite distinct and later get used quite interchangably.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

4 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Its not a theme: its just an intro to the other Kylo Ren ideas.

 

There are two Kylo Ren ideas.

 

There have been at least two instances I can think of where it played solo, without any segue to the other Kylo material (though I think one of them was nixed from the final score for Force Awakens).

[Chen G. 3,941]

The segue isn't necessarily instantaneous, but I recall it almost always playing somewhere around a statement of one of Ren's two themes.

 

Besides, a recurring theme needs to represent something. The five-note fanfare represents the characters villany. The other motif represents (at least initially) his inner turmoil. What do these strings represent, then?

 

That Williams composed two themes for a character (in a single entry) is unusual enough, but three?

[crumbs 14,287]

9 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Oh come on, that's not a theme: its just an intro to the other Kylo Ren ideas.

 

lol, yeah, righto!

 

 

[Chen G. 3,941]

Kylo Ren's secondary theme plays moments earlier!

 

Sometimes it precedes it, sometimes it comes afterwards. But to my ears its clearly just part of that theme, rather than distinct idea all on its own.

 

I'm not too picky with what constitutes a leitmotif or not, but all this idea of taking one tune and fragmenting it into half a dozen leitmotifs is getting a bit out of hand. I don't think its particularly pertinent to the way Williams writes.

[crumbs 14,287]

No, it's very clearly a distinct musical idea, even if it's related to the other two. All 3 of Kylo's Themes interrelate in one way or another, it's part of Williams' genius. This idea serves its own purpose the other two motifs don't capture, as evidence in that scene above. 

 

AOTS did a great breakdown of the three ideas in their TFA podcast, you should check it out. 

[Chen G. 3,941]

Williams has spoken of two musical ideas for Ren - which doesn't fully rule out a third - but being that we don't know his full purpose, its all fairly subjective. Generally, I don't like to treat accompaniments, intros, brdiges and A/B sections as separate leitmotives. Others clearly do. To each his own, I suppose.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

27 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Kylo Ren's secondary theme plays moments earlier!

 

Sometimes it precedes it, sometimes it comes afterwards. But its clearly just part of that theme, rather than distinct idea all on its own.

 

With all due respect, Chen, I think you're contradicting yourself. First you say it's related to either one of the two themes, then you say it's a little baby manta ray to the secondary theme, and there are times, like in "Escape", where it doesn't play off that theme at all. 

 

And if they play off each other, why would that be excluded from being a distinct musical idea? There are a number of times where the other Kylo ideas bounce off each other, but everyone considers them two distinct themes. And what about times when parts of a theme don't interact with other, does that mean they're separate? Like in Empire Strikes Back, there's a part where the little woodwind bridge in Yoda's Theme plays solo, and I don't think it precedes or follows the theme. Does that mean Yoda has two themes?

 

This is all silly music semantics in the end, but all I'm saying is I don't think juxtaposition of musical ideas, or lack thereof, is necessarily the best indicator of an idea being a distinct theme or not.

 

 

 

 

[Falstaft 2,132]

My sense with this 3rd Kylo Ren motif is that Williams did originally conceive of it as a kind of intro or supplemental idea, but that over time it's grown legs of its own so to speak. Especially in TLJ, there are a few instances where it really does sound detachable. And there are some moments with material strongly evocative of that I'm not sure are derived from it, but belong in the same motivic family.

 

Example: 

 

 

 

Alternatively, I think you could make a fair case that this rising string motif is actually a variant of the First Order motif in TFA which, besides the unused Parade Grounds cue, is really undeveloped in that score. Both are based on a C-D-F-Eb melodic cell.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

1 minute ago, Falstaft said:

Alternatively, I think you could make a fair case that this rising string motif is actually a variant of the First Order motif in TFA which, besides the unused Parade Grounds cue, is really undeveloped in that score. Both are based on a C-D-F-Eb melodic cell.

 

When we first heard the theme on the 60 Minutes segment, I thought it was going to be the theme for the First Order, and sometimes it seems like Williams flirts with the idea.

 

And that cue, before it segues into the mischievous frantic stuff, is one of my favorites from the last two scores.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

1 hour ago, crumbs said:

Correct. It's also the first motif heard after the section with Rey's Theme in Jedi Steps and Finale. Williams kindly placed all 3 musical ideas for Kylo Ren together in TFA's credits suite.

I suppose I was confused, because like @Chen G. I thought that the brooding string passage (which I love) was tied to the descending trombone motif. Looking back, however, I realize that they can be separated and expanded upon (why do I recall it even leading into Rey's B theme in The Abduction? have to double check that) . The Last Jedi definetly is a testament to that. That part in Escape plays under Hux on the deck of the Star Destroyer, a scene where Kylo Ren isn't at all present, so each of Kylo's themes (save perhaps the descending motif) can double as general First Order material.

 

1 hour ago, crumbs said:

AOTS did a great breakdown of the three ideas in their TFA podcast, you should check it out. 

I listened to that one, yes. Very good episode!

 

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

That Williams composed two themes for a character (in a single entry) is unusual enough, but three?

It's not just about two or three themes for a character; each, or at least two, of them repr sent different facets of Kylo Ren while also doubling for the First Order in general at times. The fanfare is more like the evil, powerful Dark Side hurrah while the descending motif is more related to Kylo Ren's struggle between light and dark (as it appears in many key scenes where this is a prevalent character theme).

[Chen G. 3,941]

That Kylo has two themes to represent the two sides of his personality is clear: Williams said as much, and the themes emerge in different parts of the narrative and develop for a while apart from each other.

 

As for three themes (not to mention a variant of one, attached to the First Order), I think that's a bit of a stretch, but again, its subjective. Part of my issue is for that very reason: that once you split every tune into three or more components, its often hard for each one to retain a thematic function distinct from the others. So, if one theme is for Kylo's evil, and the other is for his inner conflict, what than is a third film intended for?

[Cerebral Cortex 3,357]

I always kinda felt like it represented a building anger or frustration within Kylo. 

[Chen G. 3,941]

That's kind of what his secondary theme is mostly relegated to. I love it when he's going down the elevator and ends up smashing his helmet.

[Cerebral Cortex 3,357]

On 5/17/2019 at 11:16 AM, Pawel P. said:

Three trilogies of great music... Has any composer ever achieved anything similar?

 

While obviously another apples and oranges situation, Akira Ifukube went in and out of scoring Godzilla films over the course of 41 years, continuously incorporating themes from earlier installments in new ways and all while adding to the franchise's musical lexicon with new thematic material that seemed to stem from Ifukube having, like Williams with Star Wars, an infinite number of things to say about his defining franchise. After scoring his last Godzilla film at 80, Ifukube concluded a musical relationship that had lasted more than half of his life and that comprised approximately 15 scored entries. 

Again, to compare Williams to Ifukube is pointless. Apples and oranges and what have you. Some may scoff at even attempting to draw a parallel between the two. Regardless of personal opinion, Ifukube's relationship with Godzilla highlights a unique music career distinction shared with the likes of Williams and his relationship with Star Wars, a distinction that makes the Star Wars scores so largely tantalizing to me.

This is to say, you have a composer who defines their career with a single film and throughout the course of multiple decades (that see both the franchise and the composer grow and change in ways not realized during the inception of the first installment) that same composer repeatedly comes back and somewhat literally has to confront the writing style of an older incarnation of themselves that no longer exists. How the composer chooses to deal with that confrontation of a previous musical identity, either through embracing it and trying to write in a style reminiscent of those years of old or by adapting and updating that identity to conform to the new musical norm for the composer, is a dilemma both Williams and Ifukube had to deal with. One of the greatest benefits in being an observer to this unique relationship as a listener is being able to more directly than usual realize and appreciate the growth a composer has had. For example, Crumbs has said before, and I agree, that Rey's theme is representative of a piece Williams couldn't have realized even 15 years ago. Yet, at least to me, Rey's theme, while being a creation deeply entrenched in the writing sensibilities Williams is currently in possession of, fits perfectly within the Star Wars musical landscape. You get to be witness to great musical moments like the build to the Rebel Fanfare statement followed by the perfect segue into Rey's theme in The Battle of Crait, whereby you have a seamless bridging between the music of new Williams and the Williams of old. Those moments, those decisions the composer had to make in trying to consolidate different sensibilities, are so delicious to be able to observe. 

 

Once again, as is usually the case when I decide to create a post on here consisting of more than two sentences, I have taken to rambling. I guess ultimately what I'm trying to say is that, while we can all find instances that are at least partially comparable to the journey Williams has taken to crafting and now having to conclude a three trilogy saga, such instances are incredibly limited. As others have put more eloquently than myself, we are witness to a very unique musical occurrence and it'll be a treat to see how Williams chooses to conclude such a journey in just a few short months. 

[karelm 2,902]

31 minutes ago, Cerebral Cortex said:

 

While obviously another apples and oranges situation, Akira Ifukube went in and out of scoring Godzilla films over the course of 41 years, continuously incorporating themes from earlier installments in new ways and all while adding to the franchise's musical lexicon with new thematic material that seemed to stem from Ifukube having, like Williams with Star Wars, an infinite number of things to say about his defining franchise. After scoring his last Godzilla film at 80, Ifukube concluded a musical relationship that had lasted more than half of his life and that comprised approximately 15 scored entries. 

Again, to compare Williams to Ifukube is pointless. Apples and oranges and what have you. Some may scoff at even attempting to draw a parallel between the two. Regardless of personal opinion, Ifukube's relationship with Godzilla highlights a unique music career distinction shared with the likes of Williams and his relationship with Star Wars, a distinction that makes the Star Wars scores so largely tantalizing to me.

This is to say, you have a composer who defines their career with a single film and throughout the course of multiple decades (that see both the franchise and the composer grow and change in ways not realized during the inception of the first installment) that same composer repeatedly comes back and somewhat literally has to confront the writing style of a older incarnation of themselves that no longer exists. How the composer chooses to deal with that confrontation of a previous musical identity, either through embracing it and trying to write in a style reminiscent of those years of old or by adapting and updating that identity to conform to the new musical norm for the composer, is a dilemma both Williams and Ifukube had to deal with. One of the greatest benefits being able to observe this unique relationship as a listener is being able to more directly than usual realize and appreciate the growth a composer has had. For example, Crumbs has said before, and I agree, that Rey's theme is representative of a piece Williams couldn't have realized even 15 years ago. Yet, at least to me, Rey's theme, while being a creation deeply entrenched in the writing sensibilities Williams is currently in possession of, fits perfectly within the Star Wars musical landscape. You get to be witness to great musical moments like the build to the Rebel Fanfare statement followed by the perfect segue into Rey's theme at The Battle of Crait, whereby you have a seamless bridging between the music of new Williams and the Williams of old. Those moments, those decisions the composer had to make in trying to consolidate different sensibilities, are so delicious to be able to observe. 

 

Once again, as is usually the case when I decided to create a post on here consisting of more than two sentences, I have taken to rambling. I guess ultimately what I'm trying to say is that, while we can all find instances that are at least partially comparable to the journey Williams has taken to crafting and now having to conclude a three trilogy saga, such instances are incredibly limited. As others have put more eloquently than myself, we are witness to a very unique musical occurrence and it'll be a treat to see how Williams chooses to conclude such a journey in just a few short months. 

 

Remember, Akira Ifukube was working with the same director, Ishirō Honda, on that series.  Plus other unrelated series like the king kong movie without Godzilla and many other monster movies by same director and composer team.  Obviously, when JJ or Rain Johnson works JW, they are bringing different approaches to how they use music. They are bringing a new generation's aesthetics to the scoring process which should be considered when considering the evolution of the score.  With all that said, ANH is the work of young people and it shows.  Though the same talent is used in TROS, it is scored by an old veteran.  I would be surprised if the same youthful energy is there, but I expect all the same fingerprints to still be there.

[Cerebral Cortex 3,357]

1 minute ago, karelm said:

Remember, Ifukube is working with the same director, Ishirō Honda, on that series.  Plus other unrelated series like the king kong movie without Godzilla and many other monster movies by same director and composer team.  Obviously, when JJ or Rain Johnson works JW, they are bringing different approaches to how they use music. 

 

While Ifukube worked a lot with Honda, certainly, Ifukube scored multiple entries in the franchise under different directors. For example, the last Godzilla film Ifukube scored, Godzilla vs. Destoroyah, was made after Honda's death and existed within an entirely different series of Godzilla films. Much like how Williams had an extended period of time scoring the prequel trilogy strictly under Lucas (and concluding Star Wars) before then coming back to conclude the saga again with the sequel films entirely without Lucas, Ifukube started out scoring the films under Honda's direction and concluding the first series of Godzilla films before then coming back and concluding the second series of films made totally devoid of Honda's presence (Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah, Godzilla vs. Mothra, Godzilla vs. Destoroyah, etc).

[DominicCobb 194]

On 5/19/2019 at 2:12 PM, Chen G. said:

That's kind of what his secondary theme is mostly relegated to. I love it when he's going down the elevator and ends up smashing his helmet.

 

Am I mistaken or isn't the potential third motif being discussed part of that scene as well (playing right before his second theme and then in parallel with it, as in the TFA finale)? I'm not sure if calling it a motif or theme is accurate (I agree I wouldn't know what it signifies specifically that the other two don't), but it certainly seems to be related to Kylo's two themes, even if it doesn't always play at the same time. Perhaps a good comparison would be the rhythmic section that opens the Imperial March - what do we usually call that? 

 

[crumbs 14,287]

1 hour ago, DominicCobb said:

Am I mistaken or isn't the potential third motif being discussed part of that scene as well (playing right before his second theme and then in parallel with it, as in the TFA finale)?

 

Yep!