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Will it ever happen?: Mike Matessino's STAR WARS: ORIGINAL TRILOGY Collector's Set


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Star Wars: The Original Trilogy Collector's Set  

49 members have voted

  1. 1. Will it ever happen?

    • Yes, after IX, as a tie-in to the inevitable 9-film 4K box set
    • Yes, but years from now, after Disney tests the market with an Indiana Jones box set
    • Yes, but Mike won't be involved... and it will be a complete mess like the Disney Demasters
    • No, they'll release one score at a time, no box sets
    • No, they'll just re-release the OST... again
    • Not for decades. This will be worse than the Sony era


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So, are we ever going to see a comprehensive Star Wars Original Trilogy box set fully produced and mastered by Matessino himself? The pain endured after two decades of Sony's pathetic tenure will surely make it a sweet release if it ever comes to fruition, but one would be forgiven for being skeptical of another major label having the final say over such a release and not one of the smaller labels.

 

My bet is that Disney will finally unveil their 4K remasters of the original trilogy next year, but craftily bundle them into an ultra-9 disc box set of the entire saga, forcing fans to buy all the films all over again to secure their precious original versions of the first 3 films. Wouldn't that be the perfect occasion to release a remastered box set of the scores as well, starting with the original trilogy for the 40th Anniversary of Empire, then continuing every few years for the prequel trilogy and sequel trilogy? That's my dream scenario, what's yours?

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3 minutes ago, crumbs said:

So, are we ever going to see a comprehensive Star Wars Original Trilogy box set fully produced and mastered by Matessino himself? The pain endured after two decades of Sony's pathetic tenure will surely make it a sweet release if it ever comes to fruition, but one would be forgiven for being skeptical of another major label having the final say over such a release and not one of the smaller labels.

 

My bet is that Disney will finally unveil their 4K remasters of the original trilogy next year, but craftily bundle them into an ultra-9 disc box set of the entire saga, forcing fans to buy all the films all over again to secure their precious original versions of the first 3 films. Wouldn't that be the perfect occasion to release a remastered box set of the scores as well, starting with the original trilogy for the 40th Anniversary of Empire, then continuing every few years for the prequel trilogy and sequel trilogy? That's my dream scenario, what's yours?

It will be produced by MM and it will be soon - not too soon, but soon.

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The fact the MM was not involved in the latest release, the fact that it was, for the most part, a mess and the fact that Lucasfilm prohibited MM from saying anything regarding future projects about the music of SW... well, it doesn't sound promising to me.

 

STILL, hope never dies (as well as mothers-in-law). There's always A New Hope. :mrgreen:

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2 minutes ago, phbart said:

The fact the MM was not involved in the latest release, the fact that it was, for the most part, a mess and the fact that Lucasfilm prohibited MM from saying anything regarding future projects about the music of SW... well, it doesn't sound promising to me.

 

STILL, hope never dies (as well as mothers-in-law). There's always A New Hope. :mrgreen:

The bold part sound very promising, doesn't it?

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15 minutes ago, crumbs said:

My bet is that Disney will finally unveil their 4K remasters of the original trilogy next year, but craftily bundle them into an ultra-9 disc box set of the entire saga, forcing fans to buy all the films all over again to secure their precious original versions of the first 3 films.

Hmm... dunno about the untouched original trilogy.

 

https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a826769/star-wars-original-theatrical-cuts-no-new-release/

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2 minutes ago, phbart said:

The fact the MM was not involved in the latest release, the fact that it was, for the most part, a mess and the fact that Lucasfilm prohibited MM from saying anything regarding future projects about the music of SW... well, it doesn't sound promising to me.

 

That actually makes things more promising, IMO... you wouldn't badmouth a future/current employer if you had an upcoming project with them. Mike's a true professional of course.. I'd certainly have struggled to bite my tongue after Disney's disastrous handling of the OST remasters, if they'd told me my services weren't required for expansions.

 

Besides, Disney are bending over backwards to appease Williams while he's still scoring the new trilogy. He would hold some sway over matters like this.

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2 minutes ago, phbart said:

 

That was 2 years ago. We literally just got a one-time screening of a virtually unaltered SW print, specially allowed by Lucas.

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1 minute ago, Holko said:

 

That was 2 years ago. We literally just got a one-time screening of a virtually unaltered SW print, specially allowed by Lucas.

 

And it wasn't even a new scan of any remaster Disney commissioned and ILM worked on. It was just a print from four decades ago.

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9 minutes ago, phbart said:

the fact that Lucasfilm prohibited MM from saying anything regarding future projects about the music of SW

 

Huh?  What are you talking about?  Where did you come up with this ludicrous claim?

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2 minutes ago, Brundlefly said:

The bold part sound very promising, doesn't it?

Or maybe their hidding the fact that the original recording elements are in horrible shape and can't be used. After what's been reported lately about UMG trying to turn a blind eye to what was really lost in that fire, I think anything is possible coming from big names regarding their assets. And if MM gives even a small hint about it, he'll be executed by Disney's security department like in the old days...

noticia_00053870-580x326.png

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4 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

Huh?  What are you talking about?  Where did you come up with this ludicrous claim?

 

 

Hope this helps: http://www.jwfan.com/?p=8269

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Lastly, do you have any idea when Sonys license to release the original Star Wars scores expires? I think I speak for many John Williams fans when I say that I hope you can revisit the original trilogy – and visit the prequel trilogy for the first time – at some point in the future!

 

I would love to work on Star Wars again, of course, but Imperial decree prevents me from saying anything about it right now. Nor will I tell you the location of the hidden rebel base.

 

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4 minutes ago, phbart said:

Or maybe their hidding the fact that the original recording elements are in horrible shape and can't be used.

 

Did you miss the fact that the 2018 demasters come from brand new digital transfers of all available elements? Not ideal but certainly not horrible, most of the problems come from lazy crossfading or very poor mixing choices.

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10 minutes ago, phbart said:

Hope this helps: http://www.jwfan.com/?p=8269

 

HAha - he wasn't being serious!  That was a joke.  He wasn't literally asked by Lucasfilm not to say anything.

 

I think he wanted to find a new way to answer that question, as I tended to end most Q&As I did with him for a while with a question about him returning to Star Wars :p

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15 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

HAha - he wasn't being serious!  That was a joke.  He wasn't literally asked by Lucasfilm not to say anything.

It sure sounded like a politically correct and humorous way to say something in those lines. So, has things developed since then?

 

 

16 minutes ago, Holko said:

 

Did you miss the fact that the 2018 demasters come from brand new digital transfers of all available elements? Not ideal but certainly not horrible, most of the problems come from lazy crossfading or very poor mixing choices.

Dude, I pretty much missed everything about the 2018 release... including the release itself.

 

27 minutes ago, Holko said:

 

That was 2 years ago. We literally just got a one-time screening of a virtually unaltered SW print, specially allowed by Lucas.

A one-time screening for a selected (and small) crowd is very different from a major release.

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15 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

I think actually expanding the Star Wars scores would be something Matessino would bring to Disney Records after discussing it with Williams, not something Disney Records would decide on their own it was time to do and then seek out Matessino.  I would guess the people in charge of that record label were happy to hire Shawn Murphy to oversee OST remasters and don't really understand the expanded score market or what fans really want.

Yes, I remember Lukas Kendall mentioning at FSM many years ago something regarding that kind of attitude from studios execs about the finesses of a proper expanded release oriented to fans. I'll see if can find it...

 

Found it. https://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?pageID=1&forumID=1&threadID=65118&archive=0

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You are not going to get what you want for either franchise. Lucasfilm controls the rights and ransoms them to the highest bidder. They also defer to Williams, whose people run up big mixing bills and do not orient the releases to collectors' wishes (as happened on the recent Indy box). On top of that there are still elements problems with the original Trilogy due to the stuff having not been well archived at the time...there was a guy at the Star Wars Convention at the L.A. Convention Center a few years ago who was ransoming off original tape reels he had dug up from (LP remix engineer) John Neal's estate, including the original 2" 16-track of side four of the Star Wars LP! (Who knows where sides 1 through 3 went...the way this guy explained it, he got side 4 out of some garage...he did loan it to Lucasfilm at least to make a digital copy.) Finally, that 2CD Phantom Menace was something of a fiasco...Lucasfilm only did it because the tracks had gotten out there somehow (I forget how) and thought they were giving the collectors what they wanted by using the edited stems as conformed to the movie (with a million edits). They were quite taken aback by all the negative cricitism -- "what's the problem, it's exactly every note as heard in the film?" I remember explaining to one of the executives the subtleties involved and by the time I finished the attitude I heard was along the lines of "to hell with these people." Others know much more than I do but omerta prevails...such is the power of the Force. My real advice is to relax because after all we do have every note from the Trilogy on those 2CD editions...it's easy to overlook what a big deal that was...as well as significant Indy releases. 

Lukas

 

Almost 10 years later, things hasn't change much regarding this sort of attitude... sadly!

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From one of Tim Burdin's excellent interviews, these are Mike's most recent public comments from February 2018:

 

Quote

Nick Redman had done this 4 CD box set in 1993 for the Arista label and I was not involved... I had some peripheral involvement... but it was sort of done by Nick and Lukas Kendall and it was certainly good and groundbreaking and an example of what Nick was trying to accomplish in his early days at 20th Century Fox.

 

And then through various boring details about the rights to the Star Wars music, it opened up to do them again with RCA/Victor and expand them further even though it was just four years later. There were these twentieth anniversary, special edition issues to tie them to... but there's a great example of projects I kind of just advised.

 

I was able to just, sort of, explain on paper how I wanted to program these things but did not really have the authority to definitively work things to a state of perfection by today's standards... and certainly by my own standards, when I look back on that, I feel like it was kind of done by an idiot. But assembly-wise I was happy enough with them. But there were other people involved in saying this, that or the other about, you know, what should be done with them. But they were tremendously successful and of course those came out in a world where we still had the brick and mortar stores... the first Star Wars, A New Hope, sold 25,000 copies in its first day, physical copies in stores... and I don't know that ANY album now can do that. Certainly no soundtrack, maybe not even Star Wars, if we were to re-do it. Which I hope to, someday, re-do.

 

I remember him specifically mentioning his support for Disney getting the OST masters out there in a new release before focusing on expansions, but I cannot remember where he made that comment. From memory it was after Disney re-acquired the music rights in early 2017, possibly pre-Last Jedi, because he mentioned it didn't make sense to release expansions while John was in the middle of scoring the new trilogy (so it was after we had confirmation JW was scoring TLJ).

 

Does anyone know where Mike made those comments? Would the JP podcast be too early for that timeframe?

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I think you're thinking of this interview I did in November, 2017

 

Quote

2017 is notably not only E.T.’s 35th Anniversary and Close Encounters’ 40th, but the 40th Anniversary of Star Wars as well. Can you tell us if Disney will be celebrating the anniversary with a new expanded score presentation?

No expanded score presentations this year. We’ve got four of the films live in concert plus a new episode scored by John Williams coming imminently, so the 40th anniversary seems quite celebratory to me. Disney has hit the reset button by getting the original albums back into the marketplace, which I think is the right idea for now. There won’t be anything expanded coming just yet.

 

 

Like I was saying above, I've asked Mike about expanding Star Wars at the end of these Q&As often!

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You might have hit the nail on the head there. I thought it might have been an audio interview but that seems like the exact quote and fits the timeframe. 

 

Rather amusing when you consider that was 6 months before we all got to experience the horror of what Disney's idea of "remastered soundtracks" was. 

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He very likely ALSO talked about the Disney demasters on a podcast.  I maintain a list of all his podcast appearances indirectly here: http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/29072-jays-score-information-collection-john-williams-edition/

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If it's released trilogy by trilogy, the following order would be good, with the OT and PT being fairly interchangeable.

 

1. Ideally the OT gets a shiny new remaster and is released in a pristinely designed and packaged box, with all missing source cues, inserts and additional material plus everything currently released thus far. No hidden tracks tacked on to to the end of alternates please (see RCA Victor release of ANH- Binary Sunset Alt.)! Titus would be lovely, but there's a lot to work with already, so maybe just a touch up on a previous design. One look at the Star Wars Custom Covers Thread and it's pretty easy to tell that there's no shortage of options.

 

2. The prequel trilogy would be a huge undertaking. It'd probably be something like 7 CDs. Others with better knowledge of how much is actually unreleased might tell you differently though. I'd be game for some fresh Titus artwork, as I always am. I wonder how they'd deal with tracked segments. Leave them on and some may complain, take them off and the common folk will ask where they put the Jedi Temple March! Haha!

 

3. The sequel trilogy has a plethora of unreleased music (plus some alternates we may not even know exist yet), and unlike the prequel trilogy there's been no clean way to listen to unheard tracks and create an edit via video games. 

 

4. Solo then Rogue One, if they bother with these. 

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1 hour ago, The Illustrious Jerry said:

I wonder how they'd deal with tracked segments. Leave them on and some may complain, take them off and the common folk will ask where they put the Jedi Temple March! Haha!

 

I thought the LLL Superman approach was perfect: include cues as recorded in the main program, but film edits as bonus tracks. That way you could swap it in if you prefer it.

 

When listening to Empire, I’d actually prefer to swap in the film version of ‘Aboard the Executor’ with the tracked concert version of the Imperial March, if I had the option.

 

Episode II, though, is a bit of an odd duck because a lot of the tracked music was actually planned in advance, right?

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10 minutes ago, BrotherSound said:

Episode II, though, is a bit of an odd duck because a lot of the tracked music was actually planned in advance, right?

 

Yes it was.  Same for ROTS if I recall correctly.

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7 hours ago, BrotherSound said:

Episode II, though, is a bit of an odd duck because a lot of the tracked music was actually planned in advance, right?

 

Same with Chamber of Secrets; no recreated tracking on the Mike edition.

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Did MM not say during the talk in London that conversations had started about doing this?

 

I wasn't there unfortunately but I'm sure I remember seeing it in someones report.

 

I'm certain it'll happen. Just doesn't make sense to do it before the release of IX. I wouldn't expect to see it immediately after either.

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I wonder if it would help matters at all to conduct a letter-writing campaign to Bob Iger and the heads of Lucasfilm and Disney Music Group to lend our support for this project and show how important it is to us. 

 

On one hand, you have to think that a media company as savvy as Disney would know that pent-up demand for proper SW expansions is through the roof and only MM is the right guy for the job — and that he’s available now, JW is (probably) totally on board to offer creative guidance, and there’s going to be no better time to get this ball rolling than right now. Which would mean such a campaign should be unnecessary and everything’s secretly underway as we speak, and the worst outcome is that the Disney brass simply get a politely written letter confirming for them that their investment in the ultimate SW score expansion project is going to be warmly received. 

 

On on the other hand... Disney is such a behemoth now with so many different things to look after that the brass might legitimately have no true sense about how important this project is to score and SW aficionados, not to mention to the preservation of a keystone of modern popular culture and the magnum opus of the greatest film composer of our (or any other) era. Big companies don’t necessarily know what’s right to do (qv. the demasters). Sony sure as hell didn’t know what to do in all its time with the SW license.

 

Even if the Disney brass care enough to do things right, they may be unaware or too busy to bother with the minutiae of making sure the right team is assembled and sufficient resources are devoted to it. A project like this would get one shot at being done right. If it failed us in some material way (eg, the ROTJ SE sound issues), we’d likely never see a fix come along for many years, if ever. So one advantage of a letter campaign now would be the opportunity to lay out exactly who needs to be on this team and why, what music needs to included and why, and what mistakes or oversights from previous releases need to be corrected.

 

Any such letter could be mailed directly to Disney of course, but also put out into the social media miasma for people to pick up and give traction to. After all, we live in a world where people are now advised to voice their complaints on Twitter so that the targeted company will actually pay attention and resolve the issue for you. 

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I doubt Bob Iger or Disney Marketing give a rat's arse about expanded Star Wars scores. They'll take a look at their new "remastered" sales and see that they don't need to release anything more. 

 

A release like this needs to come from negotiations between a label and Williams' team. I'm pessimistic about anything happening anytime soon. 

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It's true, we've been blessed in recent years. However, it took a great deal of time and the coming together of several groups of people just to make something like Harry Potter happen. Harry fucking Potter, something that's popular, something you would've thought the studios would throw money at! When in reality, it took two different studios allowing the label to produce the set, along with Williams's approval. It feels like a narrowly won victory that shouldn't have to be such a damn close call!

 

I'll jump for joy and be as giddy as everyone else here when we can get Star Wars and Indy, but I'm not going to set my hopes up and then wait years feeling like I'm owed something.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Alan said:

Did MM not say during the talk in London that conversations had started about doing this?

 

Here is what was reported!

 

On 10/28/2018 at 5:52 AM, crocodile said:

He said it's probably a good strategy that Disney and pushing reset button on everything. SW has a very complicated licensing history and starting with OSTs might be a good thing. He also hinted that he's having "conversations" with them about the expanded releases.

 

http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/28986-details-from-mike-matessinos-london-talk/

 

That's not the way I remember it, however; I remember someone asking about Star Wars, and after saying all that stuff about the licensing history and the Disney Records OST "reset", him finishing by saying as for whether or not a proper expansion would eventually comes "what do you think?", implying (in my mind) to essentially mean "of course it will happen eventually and i'll be in charge of it when it does" which obviously doesn't mean it had already started or that it was imminent then or even now.

 

I don't remember him using the word "conversations" at all. I wish someone recorded the talk!

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8 minutes ago, Fabulin said:

We could write letters to every side involved. And sign it as JWFan + real names of those who want to support (I certainly would). And mind you, I am not talking Bob Iger or any other six star rank, but instead people who would or could be directly involved with such a project. Together we could write additional, official looking messages concerning what makes a great release, with examples of the previous releases and issues with them, with examples of other projects done well... and just point fingers at things that could be done---and with whose involvement could they be done.

 

If the recipients would be with us, we could then write to high brass. 

 

It wouldn't hurt to try this.

 

If you write it, I'll sign it. :)

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Are Disney Records able to proceed with expansions of the scores without JW's approval? Couldn't he just refuse to authorize any release that didn't have Matessino producing it, or does Williams effectively have no legal control of the SW scores?

 

ie. Disney can do whatever they want without gaining his approval (even though it would obviously cost them any working relationship with Williams in the future).

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5 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Are Disney Records able to proceed with expansions of the scores without JW's approval?

 

Legally?  Probably, I think.  But realistically?  They wouldn't.

 

5 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Couldn't he just refuse to authorize any release that didn't have Matessino producing it, or does Williams effectively have no legal control of the SW scores?

 

If they did some expansion on their own without involving Matessino, they wouldn't send it to him for approval!  But if they did, he would probably not approve it, yea, of course.

 

Again with the legality, I have no idea about that stuff.  

 

5 minutes ago, crumbs said:

ie. Disney can do whatever they want without gaining his approval (even though it would obviously cost them any working relationship with Williams in the future).

 

Right, which is suicidal, so it wouldn't happen.

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4 minutes ago, Bespin said:

Give me a break about JW’s « approval », remember he « approved » the first version of Hook’s expansion and the Star Wars Demastered Edition.

 

😂

 

I doubt Williams even listened to the Demasters. He was probably given a courtesy note that Disney were re-releasing his OST assemblies using new scans of the master tapes, but I highly doubt he approved or listened to them (especially if he knew Shaun Murphy had some peripheral involvement in the project).

 

9 minutes ago, Jay said:

If they did some expansion on their own without involving Matessino, they wouldn't send it to him for approval!  But if they did, he would probably not approve it, yea, of course.

 

Makes me wonder how something like TPM UE slipped through the cracks. Presumably Williams wasn't even told, because there's no way in hell he would've listened to that release and approved it (like that A.I. Academy promo he was reportedly furious about).

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Any label could re-issue an OST (even if they rebuilt it from scratch from fresh session transfers) without composer approval.  Composers would only be asked to approve new programs, not existing ones.

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1 hour ago, Jay said:

 

Here is what was reported!

 

 

http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/28986-details-from-mike-matessinos-london-talk/

 

That's not the way I remember it, however; I remember someone asking about Star Wars, and after saying all that stuff about the licensing history and the Disney Records OST "reset", him finishing by saying as for whether or not a proper expansion would eventually comes "what do you think?", implying (in my mind) to essentially mean "of course it will happen eventually and i'll be in charge of it when it does" which obviously doesn't mean it had already started or that it was imminent then or even now.

 

I don't remember him using the word "conversations" at all. I wish someone recorded the talk!

My memory is that he said all the stuff we mentioned above and the added something like "but yeah, we're having conversations about it" at the end. Which, to me, doesn't really sound binding in any way anyway. And that was some time ago so I can't be certain.

 

Karol

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