Is "Keeping Up With the Joneses" a concert arrangement?

[Demodex 557]

If not is there one for the Father/Son theme?

[Faleel 5,340]

It is widely believed to be an alternate for the Biplane Chase.

[Demodex 557]

Bummer. 

 

I assume "Short Round's Theme" on the ToD soundtrack is one. 

[Bellosh 3,389]

6 minutes ago, Demodex said:

Bummer. 

 

I assume "Short Round's Theme" on the ToD soundtrack is one. 

 

The whole cue 'Short Round's Theme' is actually heard in full in the film, so it's not a concert arrangement either.

[BrotherSound 2,242]

13 hours ago, Bellosh said:

The whole cue 'Short Round's Theme' is actually heard in full in the film, so it's not a concert arrangement either.

 

The only actual concert arrangements from the Indy series composed and recording alongside the rest of the soundtrack (i.e. like we’re used to with the Star Wars series, all the way back to Princess Leia’s Theme) are those for the fourth film, right?

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Correct! There are no concert recordings in the Indy trilogy. They're all film tracks and Joneses is an alternate.

[lairdo 726]

17 minutes ago, Dieter Stark said:

Correct! There are no concert recordings in the Indy trilogy. They're all film tracks and Joneses is an alternate.

 

However, there were arrangements/suite released from the films by others both contemporaneously and through today:

 

Example: Roy Budd & The London Symphony: Raiders and Temple of Doom Suite (1986). I suspect Roy Budd put this together himself but actually have not researched it.

 

Scherzo for Motorcycle and Orchestra appeared on the first Williams/Spielberg album in 1991, and we heard it this year with Dudamel in a different version for Celebrating John Williams.

 

 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Don't forget Parade of the Slave Children.

[TownerFan 4,983]

6 hours ago, Fal J. M. Skywalker said:

It is widely believed to be an alternate for the Biplane Chase.

 

Actually it’s written for the biplane vs. car chase. The cue is meant to start right after Indy says “Hold tight, dad, we’re landing” and then continue until the “birds of Charlemagne” stunt. In the end, they  decided to dial out the first part of the cue and rescore the second half with a more straightforward cue using the Scherzo motif instead of the lyrical, sentimental Father/Son theme.

[Holko 9,499]

And then rescored the end of the rescore.

[Demodex 557]

7 hours ago, Dieter Stark said:

Correct! There are no concert recordings in the Indy trilogy. They're all film tracks and Joneses is an alternate.

 

I don't know where it's from but I have a track that seems to be a concert arrangement of Marion's theme.  It doesn't have the ominous cue at the end like the CD I have for when the Nazi symbol on the crate holding the Ark burns away. 

[Holko 9,499]

That's on Spielberg/Williams III, from 2 years ago.

[Demodex 557]

Oh.  So that doesn't count?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Well it was written decades after the film was released.

 

KOCS has a few concert tracks.

[Demodex 557]

I'm not concerned with when they were made, just that they exist at all. 

[Jay 37,287]

15 hours ago, Demodex said:

Is "Keeping Up With the Joneses" a concert arrangement?

 

No, it's just a cue from the film score.  It's 9M2, though we don't know the original cue title (because the sheet music leak was a weird one where it basically had every cue from the film EXCEPT the ones that were on the OST).  But I think "Keeping Up With The Joneses" is a very funny and fitting name for an OST album track. 

 

It scored an early cut of the biplane sequence (air part and land part), and Spielberg must have not liked the way the whole thing came out because the scene was re-edited, the first half of Williams' cue was dropped, and the second part was replaced by a re-write, and then THAT rewrite had its very ending replacing again by another new ending.

 

15 hours ago, Demodex said:

I assume "Short Round's Theme" on the ToD soundtrack is one. 

 

No, that is 3M3/4M1 The Elephant Ride, which can be heard in its entirety in the film.  Again Williams just chose a more interesting name for OST album purposes.

 

 

This old spreadshete might be helpful to you https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FKIOANG63UjuilEUY5f9bLFIXOVVmc41rxM93zCJAbI/edit?usp=sharing

 

11 hours ago, BrotherSound said:

The only actual concert arrangements from the Indy series composed and recording alongside the rest of the soundtrack (i.e. like we’re used to with the Star Wars series, all the way back to Princess Leia’s Theme) are those for the fourth film, right?

 

Yes, but even then only "The Call Of The Crystal" and "The Adventures Of Mutt" are proper concert arrangements;  The track called "Irina's Theme" is simply an assembly of some bits from various film cues.  And of course "The Raiders March" is the end credits cue from the first film.

 

 

4 hours ago, Demodex said:

I don't know where it's from but I have a track that seems to be a concert arrangement of Marion's theme.  It doesn't have the ominous cue at the end like the CD I have for when the Nazi symbol on the crate holding the Ark burns away. 

 

That's because again Williams chose a unique NAME for an OST track to be more fitting for an OST track.  The OST track called "Marion's Theme" is actually 10M4 En Bateau followed by 4M2 To Cairo.  Williams didn't actually write a proper concert arrangement of Marion's Theme until 2008, and then it wasn't recorded at the IJ4 sessions, sadly, but premiered live in concert.  For years we could only listen to it via recordings of live concert appearances until it finally premiered as a studio recording on Spielberg/Williams III in 2017.

 

Incidentally, he also wrote a proper concert arrangement of Irina's Theme that premiered in concert in 2008 as well, but that still hasn't received a proper studio recording.  It's awesome, too.

 

[Demodex 557]

Thanks!

[crumbs 14,301]

That montage definitely gives context to what Williams was doing in that score. Similar to some of the themes in the Star Wars prequels, Williams was scoring his idea of what the director was trying to convey but didn't really achieve (most notably the lush love theme for the world's worst love story in AOTC). 

 

But the idea of Ivanka Spanko's character being the archetypal 'seductive femme fatale' is absurd. They don't really play up those traits at all, as interesting as that dynamic would've been with Marion around. She might have had something meaningful to contribute to the story! Alas, not with Koepp on the job. 

[Jay 37,287]

Yes!

[Marian Schedenig 8,173]

3 hours ago, Jay said:

Ye olde spreadshete might be helpful to you

 

Fixed.

[Jay 37,287]

hehehe

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

They needed a hotter actress.

[Jay 37,287]

Cate Blanchett is not hot?

[Holko 9,499]

They made her not hot in it.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Indeed.

[Bellosh 3,389]

I always thought the part at like 2:32 was a statement for Indy's mother.

 

 

[TownerFan 4,983]

12 hours ago, crumbs said:

That montage definitely gives context to what Williams was doing in that score. Similar to some of the themes in the Star Wars prequels, Williams was scoring his idea of what the director was trying to convey but didn't really achieve (most notably the lush love theme for the world's worst love story in AOTC). 

 

But the idea of Ivanka Spanko's character being the archetypal 'seductive femme fatale' is absurd. They don't really play up those traits at all, as interesting as that dynamic would've been with Marion around. She might have had something meaningful to contribute to the story! Alas, not with Koepp on the job. 

 

I think the theme was inspired more by Williams’ infatuation with the actress portraying the character than anything else—“she would rule my world!”, as he said on camera to Spielberg  

[Incanus 5,713]

8 minutes ago, TownerFan said:

 

I think the theme was inspired more by Williams’ infatuation with the actress portraying the character than anything else—“she would rule my world!”, as he said on camera to Spielberg  

Indeed. But Irina's theme is such a wonderful tribute to the old film noir scores in style that it is a shame that no one has recorded the concert arrangement yet. It is simply gorgeous.

 

And it is very true that Irina Spalko in Indy IV doesn't have anything to do with the whole femme fatale archetype as characterized by the old film noir leading ladies. Sure she is a fatal female character but in a different sense entirely. 

[crumbs 14,301]

Blanchett is definitely Williams' cuppa tea. She has that old Hollywood style in the vein of Hepburn which I can see inspiring Williams, hence the delightful theme (that doesn't really fit the character at all). 

 

It would've been nice if Spielberg doubled down on the film noire style (in the vein of a Humphrey Bogart mystery) but the film ended up some bizarre hybrid of styles and feels more like a poor initiation of his own work than a continuation.

[TownerFan 4,983]

I guess film composers, more often than not, have to grapple on anything that could work as source of inspiration, even if that bring them a bit far from the actual thing (much like Leia’s theme seems to score more Luke’s idealistic vision of the female character than the character herself). But that’s the fascinating aspect of film music—there’s always more than one solution to the problem.

[Incanus 5,713]

10 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Blanchett is definitely Williams' cuppa tea. She has that old Hollywood style in the vein of Hepburn which I can see inspiring Williams, hence the delightful theme (that doesn't really fit the character at all). 

 

It would've been nice if Spielberg doubled down on the film noire style (in the vein of a Humphrey Bogart mystery) but the film ended up some bizarre hybrid of styles and feels more like a poor initiation of his own work than a continuation.

Williams score very much reflects this hybrid style with references to the Golden Age era inspiration of the original Indy scores, film noirs for Irina, Errol Flynn-inspired Korngoldesque swashbuckling for Mutt and 1950's and 1960's sci-fi film music for the Crystal Skull. 

[Brundlefly 2,385]

2 hours ago, TownerFan said:

I guess film composers, more often than not, have to grapple on anything that could work as source of inspiration, even if that bring them a bit far from the actual thing (much like Leia’s theme seems to score more Luke’s idealistic vision of the female character than the character herself). But that’s the fascinating aspect of film music—there’s always more than one solution to the problem.

I wonder where Goldsmith got inspiration from for Rambo III. He probably transformed the ridiculous portrayal of the Middle Eastern conflicts into the actual situation as he perceived it emotionally from the media and then scored that.