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New The Rise of Skywalker score information from Don Williams

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Oh no, there's a Star Wars score canon now? Sorry Kevin Kiner and Joel McNeely, you're going in the EU black hole of non-canon music!

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4 hours ago, crumbs said:

Williams has already loaded the Rogue One master tapes into a cannon and they're aimed at the sun.

Oh, don't worry, I was there to intercept them before they were launched, I swapped them out with the master tapes for Hook...

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Personally, I'll take Don's "fire frenzy" stories with a grain of salt. He mentions it on a couple of occasions. It may be true, but it would be very out-of-character for Williams. Sounds more like something a Harvey Weinstein type would do. Perhaps someone else in the process did the actual firing. I refuse to believe that Williams fires people left and right for a single error that might be corrected with a reprimande instead.

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10 hours ago, Cerebral Cortex said:

It'd be funny if, while we're here talking about how the quote is getting blown out of proportion, the score to TROS actually did somehow have every single Star Wars theme in it. 

I think it is mostly true. It will be every theme that Williams considers significant in the context of the saga, provided it is compatible with the dramatic situation of the film. And then some Easter Eggs.

Initially I thought "But Williams surely does not remember all of the themes" - yet now I think that he probably read the scores of the previous films before composing this one. So, let's break it down:

 

Themes too specialized (as in: concerning something very literal that is unlikely to be in the film). Unless throwback scenes which would reference:

1. Jar Jar,

2. General Grievous,

3. Darth Maul

4. Kamino

happen, these are very unlikely to be featured.

 

There are other themes that do concern something or someone that has more direct connections to the larger Star Wars story:

 

1. Young Anakin (for Kylo, or Rey, or Palpatine's storytelling about creating life),

2. Qui-gon (the Force or fate) 

3. Shmi (legacy, bloodline) 

4. Funeral (can be subtle, as a generalized motif of loss)

5. AOTC conspiracy motif (wasn't it playing all around Palpatine in Ep. II?)

have a fair chance of being used.

 

Most of the OT and ST themes are very easily fitting:

1. Lando's Palace (Lando),

2. Ewok Theme (Endor),

3. Droids

4. Princess Leia,

5. Luke and Leia,

6. Han & The Princess,

7. Death Star,

8. Stormtroopers,

9. Rebel Fanfare,

10. Yoda,

11. Vader, 

12. The Phantom

13. Rey

... ST motifs (18 or so)

as is...

14. Across the Stars (Rey & Kylo, a general coda)

are anything from very likely to confirmed

 

 

Easter Eggs:

1. Boba Fett (Keri Russel's character for example),

2. Jabba (counterpoint in some underworld scene)

3. Jawas (in an abstract sense concerning something jovial happening in desert environment)

4. Droid Army March (C3PO with a gun)

 

might find some use, if scenes are light enough

 

And then remember Williams can mask themes by playing them in a different mode, veeeery slow, or on some unusual instruments.

 

Let's do the math; it is likely that a majority (or even "a vast majority") of themes and motifs will be featured, even if it's the green group only.

> 30, 10, 4

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2 hours ago, TownerFan said:

Again, people here are not focusing on what was the point of Don Williams speaking about that episode: when you record with JW, you just focus on doing your best performance, because that's what you're requested to do. It's not up to you (even if you're concertmaster) to stop the take for any reason--"iron fist in a velvet glove" is probably an apt definition when it comes to JW (or any other great conductor) on the recording stage.

 

I agree with that. I just don't think Williams fired a person, Harvey Weinstein or Donald Trump-style, over a single incident like that. Like Don said, he reprimanded said concert master with a strict "I'll have to have the floor". If he was fired, someone else in the project must have done it to accomodate Williams, or he must have transgressed repeatedly. Anything else would be absurd. It would go against everyhing we know about Williams as a person.

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1 hour ago, Modest Expectations said:

Initially I thought "But Williams surely does not remember all of the themes" - yet now I think that he probably read the scores of the previous films before composing this one.

 

No, he secretly hired Frank Lehman (aka @Falstaft) to point and remind him of every single theme and motif he's going to use ;)

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28 minutes ago, TownerFan said:

No, he secretly hired Frank Lehman (aka @Falstaft) to point and remind him of every single theme and motif he's going to use ;)

I get that you are joking, but I don't think Williams even needed that. On the other hand, it reminds me that only two users voted that Across the Stars will return---myself...    ...and Falstaft.

I move it to the green category.

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2 hours ago, Modest Expectations said:

1. Boba Fett (Keri Russel's character for example),

2. Jabba (counterpoint in some underworld scene)

3. Jawas (in an abstract sense concerning something jovial happening in desert environment)

4. Droid Army March (C3PO with a gun)

 

I doubt all of these. Jawas was referenced in Rey’s Theme (the concert arrangement only, I believe), but I don’t think it will come back again.

 

If I were a betting man, I would only put money on the major OT + TFA themes + Duel of the Fates.

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DOTF returning isn't a huge shock. It fits right in with something JJ would request to "bookend" the saga musically. It's the primary theme in Episode I, makes sense to bring it back for IX.

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I think we need to temper our expectations a bit here to avoid a massive disappointment.  After Rogue One and Solo, we're basically in the golden age of Star Wars leitmotif callbacks.  If Williams—who has forgotten more themes than Howard Shore ever wrote—develops a sudden taste for deep tracks from his SW catalogue, I'll be thrilled, but it would be a tremendous departure for him.  If you want nerdy callbacks to prior melodies, JW is not your guy.  I'd love to be wrong, but I doubt it.  Just give me one shoutout to the ESB droid motif, and I'll die happy.  Mostly because it means Artoo and Threepio must have been given something to do.

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Referring to the Emperor as the 'Phantom' is just so obscure though. He's the Emperor! Everyone knows the character and the Emperor's Theme.

 

'Phantom' has to be a reference to the main theme from Phantom Menace, which is DOTF.

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45 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

What evidence do we have that JW forgets so many themes? I'm curious.

He once called Across the Stars the first love theme in SW.  Therefore, he forgets a huge chunk of themes he has composed.  

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Well what we call Han Solo and the Princess, which we also call the first love theme of the saga, was referred to as Han's theme initially, no? That's what it's called in the RCA Victor 2-disc release.

 

I really think Don was searching for a word when he said Phantom, so I'd really take all of that with a grain or two of salt. Yoda's theme returning is very believable though. Makes perfect sense to me after The Last Jedi, but perhaps a new arrangement would be a bit better rather than just quoting directly from ESB.

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9 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

It’s silly to hold that against him because he clearly hasn’t forgotten “Han Solo and the Princess.”

Exactly. Was that even a love theme? I mean, technically it's for Han who loves her in the OT, isn't it?

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1 hour ago, Disco Stu said:

You guys have to have been involved in the countless debates about this before.  Do your memories get wiped routinely like a protocol droid?

 

We could have lived through this once before, or even have been caught in this loop for years and years. There's no way to know for sure. All we do know for certain is...

 

There's no way out of here. No way to break the cycle. If there is a way to escape, and people _have_ done it, they definitely haven't come back to tell us about it.

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4 hours ago, The Illustrious Jerry said:

Well what we call Han Solo and the Princess, which we also call the first love theme of the saga, was referred to as Han's theme initially, no?

 

It’s really not. The theme is clearly an offshoot of the Princess’ own theme. If anything, it applies more to her than to Han.

 

As for the “first love them”. When Williams said this of “Across the Stars” he meant that it’s the first love theme in that particular idiom: that of the doomed lovers. Technically, Leia’s Theme is a love theme, too, and that predates Han Solo and the Princess.

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As "forgetful" as Williams apparently is, his TLJ score ended featuring a hell of a lot of returning themes. I'd be a little surprised if we got anymore than what was in that. Maybe one or two extras, but I'm not getting my hopes up for something like the ESB droid motif, personally. That's seems incredibly improbable.

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5 hours ago, The Illustrious Jerry said:

Yoda's theme returning is very believable though. Makes perfect sense to me after The Last Jedi, but perhaps a new arrangement would be a bit better rather than just quoting directly from ESB.

 

A new arrangement, you say? 

 

19 hours ago, The Illustrious Jerry said:

The droid motif from ESB would be an absolute delight, but I'm more hopeful for a fine balance of nostalgia and freshness rather than a large amount of both big and obscure references.

 

Honestly, and I can't even tell you why, but I'm really hoping for that one to return as well. If the rumors are to be believed that...

Spoiler

Threepio and recovering his memory plays a large role in this one...

 

...Then I can see the need to indulge in a reprisal appropriate. Say, for example, that...

Spoiler

...Threepio unintentionally says something that makes the characters realize he is the key they need. You have quick cuts from Finn, Rey, and Poe as they all exchange glances and realize the significance Threepio now holds before the camera then cuts to Threepio and pushes in towards his "puzzled" expression ("What? Was it something I said?") while a slower and more sustained statement of the theme plays on lower brass. 

 

Williams has always said that he loves returning to Star Wars partly because he has this large tapestry of themes to draw from and add to so I'm hoping that he feels able to just go crazy and have fun with this one. 

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So, what I get out of this is: 

it will have many thematic quotes from previous movies, and it will have those themes for two or three bars, until it veers into JW 2010 filler again.

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3 hours ago, Cerebral Cortex said:

A new arrangement, you say? 

I would love if Mutter somehow got in on a few cues. Star Wars and solo violin are two things we don't see together often that are just so darn good!

 

3 hours ago, Cerebral Cortex said:

Honestly, and I can't even tell you why, but I'm really hoping for that one to return as well. If the rumors are to be believed that...

  Reveal hidden contents

 

...Then I can see the need to indulge in a reprisal appropriate. Say, for example, that...

  Reveal hidden contents

 

That actually sounds really plausible! It's just such a cheery and innocent little motif- it's delicious!

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On 8/11/2019 at 12:48 PM, Modest Expectations said:

So... the music is getting more complex;

lots of themes return in subtle and interesting ways

there are going to be 135 minutes of music, with the film plausibly clocking at 2h 15min / 2h 20min

and so far only 34 have been recorded, over 4 days (8,5min/day) - but possibly he does not count the session in June

 

Nice to have the things that so far have been only expected confirmed "on paper"

 

I really hope it will be subtle , and not as in TLJ where we heard the concert piece of Yoda and Leia ...

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4 hours ago, pro-arte said:

I really hope it will be subtle , and not as in TLJ where we heard the concert piece of Yoda and Leia ...

 

To be fair, the Yoda suite was only used in the OST version of the end credits, likely because Williams loves that theme and probably just wanted a new recording on his soundtrack assembly (like the extended Throne Room suite they recorded specifically for the ROTS OST).

 

And the concert version of Leia's Theme has never been heard inside any of the films up to this point, just fragments of her theme. So technically its first appearance is in TLJ (and it's an adaptation anyway, not note-for-note tracking or anything like that). :)

 

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Don got more precise in a new exclusive interview: 

 

« Be prepared to hear great Star Wars old themes like The Asteroid Field, The Imperial March, Cantina Band, The Flying Theme, Raider’s March and the Shark Cage Fugue. My brother definitely have a better memory than me! »

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2 hours ago, crumbs said:

 

To be fair, the Yoda suite was only used in the OST version of the end credits, likely because Williams loves that theme and probably just wanted a new recording on his soundtrack assembly (like the extended Throne Room suite they recorded specifically for the ROTS OST).

 

And the concert version of Leia's Theme has never been heard inside any of the films up to this point, just fragments of her theme. So technically its first appearance is in TLJ (and it's an adaptation anyway, not note-for-note tracking or anything like that). :)

 

And in the SACRED JEDI TEXTS!!!! Scene.

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