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Superior Film Mixes


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I was watching Jurassic Park and noticed that the film mix sounded better to my ears than any CD release of the score. More clarity, more oomph. A great example of this is the Imperial March during Darth's introduction in The Empire Strikes Back. It sounds better than any release of the music itself.

 

 

Why can't the albums sound like this? What are they doing differently when they mix the music for the movies that makes it sound so much better?

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I don't think I've ever really noticed JP sounding any better in the film than on album - I think the OST mix sounds pretty fantastic - but ESB is a very different case. The SE releases were not handled with the technical finesse they would have received today. I'm probably telling you stuff you already know, but the ESB SE album actually jumps back and forth between material based on Eric Tomlinson's original film mixes and new (at the time) remixes by Brian Risner. The Imperial March is one of the remixes.

 

If I were to make a sweeping generalization, the biggest difference film-vs-album difference in a recording's sound is going to be the reverb. Film mixes are often relatively dry...not much reverberation. Album mixes invariably feature more reverb, whether introduced artificially or by introducing more of the room sound from more distant mics into the mix. Empire is pretty dry on the SE album, but if anything the film sounds dryer to me. If less reverb tends to be appealing to you, I'd guess you're going to tend to prefer film mixes.

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A few thoughts on this subject:

1 film music has to compete dialogue and sound effects. This means that certain instruments, which, in the two-channel mix, might sound soft (or can we say "normal"?),  need to sound louder than intended, to be heard, in the film.

2 film music is mixed in multi-channel, thus the music has a chance to "breathe", when set free from the confines of stereo. This means that certain instruments are able to be given more prominence (ffi, see 1). Also, the "enveloping" effect of the music, is more apparent, in a cinema/home cinema.

3 There is far less compression in a film mix, than there is, in a stereo mix. Case in point: JURASSIC PARK. There's no DTS for CDs...yet...

4 films are FUCKING LOUD, and there is no opportunity to turn down the volume. This means that the film mix might sound better. Of course, this is subjective, but I hope that ya'll get my point?

 

As for JP sounding "silky": it's Shawn Murphy, what do you expect?

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On 8/16/2019 at 8:46 PM, Dieter Stark said:

I was watching Jurassic Park and noticed that the film mix sounded better to my ears than any CD release of the score. More clarity, more oomph. A great example of this is the Imperial March during Darth's introduction in The Empire Strikes Back. It sounds better than any release of the music itself.

 

 

Why can't the albums sound like this? What are they doing differently when they mix the music for the movies that makes it sound so much better?

 

You're absolutely right.  The OST and film edits aren't always the same because the composer might choose edits that are closer to his heart for preservation in isolation and those might not be superior performances but might be superior musically.  It's hard to explain.  Think of it like "you had to be there in that moment when all the elements just gelled but someone was heard humming".  This is the difference between artistic excellence and technical excellence.  In a perfect universe, they are one and the same but in reality, that is unlikely.  If you listen to masterful recordings from the past, they are full of technical errors, but the artistry was exceptional and mistakes worth enduring.  So the composer and film makers have different goals in mind for the film and OST.  Also remember that in some cases the composer had his hands tied due to late edits he wouldn't have agreed to, drop ins from previous cues, etc., so many factors outside of their control.  Generally, the composer delivers their score to the film makers who then do what they will with it.  I don't have proof of this, but I bet JJ Abrams dropped in homestead unbeknownst to JW in TFA.  Even if that wasn't the case, that is a common scenario just to give you an idea.  Also remember that the mastering for OST is completely different than the film.  OST is mastered to work on home devises not multiplex which again accounts for a very different emphasis of EQ and sonics.  The point is these are two entirely different products and you are correct in pointing it out.  I think the original trilogy sounds fabulous theatrically and mediocre (or inconsistent at best) in the OST and yes I've owned every incarnation and they are generally getting worse over time.  The LP's were glorious. There was also the practice that some vintage OST's were re-recordings to prevent expensive licensing fees so what was in the film and what was on the album were different and possibly two different orchestras too.  @Jay understands this practice better than me, but for example, wasn't Fury movie recorded by the LSO but the OST by Hollywood or viseversa?  I think Jaws also had a re-recording and this was wasn't unusual but ended around the time of the studio decline in the 1970's.

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13 hours ago, Pellaeon said:

Really? Are you listening to the actual FYC (ideally a CD rip), or to a fan compilation?

CD rip in FLAC. And I talked a bit too fast, the OST mixes have a little more reverb, but to me it's not unlistenable at all.

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@Dieter Stark I've noticed the same phenomenon with several films. Some of it I believe is the fuller sound of a 5.1 mix with surround sound too that gives the music a real presence. I was watching LotR:TTT recently and a cue stood out to me that hadn't on the CR set because it had, as you describe, an 'extra oomph' to it, in the instruments and the bass. 

 

 

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In the case of The Empire Strikes Back, they didn't track in the same take of that section of The Imperial March into that scene that was used on the album, it was some other take. So it sounds different.

 

I never thought any release of Jurassic Park music lacked oomph. 

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I think so too. JP sounded better and better at each release.

 

I was just saying about this in some other thread here, about Raiders. The 1995 DCC release has the original Eric Tomlinson 2-channel mix, which I believe is the film mix. While it sounds great, the John Neal remix for the 1981 OST sounds better to me (again, like I said, with the proper pitch correction). "Flight from Peru" and "Map Room: Dawn" are the perfect examples of why I say this.

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If John Neal remixed entire film cues before they got edited and combed for the OST album, I hope a future expanded release contains the complete film score from the Tomlinson film mixes, followed by every cue he remixed for the OST as bonus tracks.  If the film cues were edited into the album first and then he remixed that, the entire OST album should be included after the main program.

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On 8/23/2019 at 4:43 AM, phbart said:

I think so too. JP sounded better and better at each release.

 

I was just saying about this in some other thread here, about Raiders. The 1995 DCC release has the original Eric Tomlinson 2-channel mix, which I believe is the film mix. While it sounds great, the John Neal remix for the 1981 OST sounds better to me (again, like I said, with the proper pitch correction). "Flight from Peru" and "Map Room: Dawn" are the perfect examples of why I say this.

 

I think both Raiders are good.

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