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Jar Jar

The Infamous Phantom Menace Ultimate Edition

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Hi Guys,

 

I am currently listening to this album and enjoying it a lot. 

There are some real gems which are not on the OST. I have not finished yet (only CD1 for the moment) but I was wondering why this album as such a bad reputation on the forum ?

 

There should be lot of edits as it follows the movie but spotted only one annoying one (on Anakin vs Sebulba, there is a change in tonality and rythm which is really bad).

Otherwise, it seems to flow well musically.

 

Thanks

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This album is basically a high-quality rip of the music-track that was used in the finished film. 

 

A very lazy presentation from both Lucasfilm and Sony.  

 

Too bad Mike Matessino wasn't involved on this.  He would have presented each music cue the way Williams had written and recorded it.

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21 minutes ago, Thor said:

I had this for all but half a year back in the early 2000s before I sold it.

 

I've always had trouble understanding why people who generally like expanded/C&C releases, don't care for this. From what I've gleaned, it seems to be something with the fact that it doesn't contain the recording sessions tracks as they are, but that these tracks have been socalled 'micro-edited' in line with the film? I think I understand the difference between the two, but at the same time -- you who want ALL the music from a film, in the film's order, isn't this the best possible presentation, sticking as closely to the music of the film as possible?

But wasn't the bigger problem that it didn't even conform to what you hear in the movie sometimes? As I understood it, it's an edit of the isolated score, not the actual isolated score.

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The puzzling part is someone took the time to edit everything. I’m not sure if they edited the isolated score or attempted to edit an isolated score using the sessions. I’m going with the latter since The Tide Turns has a small segment not heard in the film... among other examples.

 

Even though the TPM: EU is a hacked up mess, at least the sound quality/mixing is excellent... at least to me ears.

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One of the problems was the way it was marketed and promoted, which created false expectations in the buyers.

 

I think if Sony had sold it as nothing more than "the score as heard in the film" there would have been less outrage. But the wording and marketing implied we'd also get unreleased stuff like music for the film before it was re-edited. There was good stuff  left on the editing floor and we knew about it, and thought we'd be getting it based on marketing.

 

I don't mind the 2CD release - once I accepted it for what it is and not for what it was marketed to be.

 

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1 hour ago, bollemanneke said:

But wasn't the bigger problem that it didn't even conform to what you hear in the movie sometimes? As I understood it, it's an edit of the isolated score, not the actual isolated score.

 

That makes sense. As a continuation of that -- am I right to assume that if a score was released on album basically as a straight copy of the isolated score, this would not please you fans of expanded/C&C releases?

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8 minutes ago, Thor said:

 

That makes sense. As a continuation of that -- am I right to assume that if a score was released on album basically as a straight copy of the isolated score, this would not please you fans of expanded/C&C releases?

Well, I for one wouldn't be pleased with isolated score releases because they would include the occasionally bad movie edits. I'm not necessarily interested in alternates, but every cue heard in the movie in its complete form should at least be on it in the correct order. Not in a very raw form that doesn't make for nice listening, but the original natrative has to be complete and free of edits, unless those edits include pasting cues together because they were meant to be listened to like that.

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3 hours ago, Jar Jar said:

Hi Guys,

 

I am currently listening to this album and enjoying it a lot. 

There are some real gems which are not on the OST. I have not finished yet (only CD1 for the moment) but I was wondering why this album as such a bad reputation on the forum ?

 

There should be lot of edits as it follows the movie but spotted only one annoying one (on Anakin vs Sebulba, there is a change in tonality and rythm which is really bad).

Otherwise, it seems to flow well musically.

 

Thanks

 

Because the myst.

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1 hour ago, Thor said:

 

 

Except it isn't so easy, not to me anyway.

 

Here's how I understand it (and please do correct me if this is wrong).

 

Fans of expanded/C&C releases use the film as a 'guide' for their soundtrack enjoyment. That's why they want all of the music from the film, and in the film's order. But there are apparently differences here.

 

GOOD: Every cue, as it was recorded during the recording sessions, in sequence.

 

BAD (as in THE ULTIMATE EDITION release): Almost every cue, but with micro-edits within the 'recording session' cues to account for the film's editing -- even though this presentation uses the film even more as a guide than a standard expanded release.

 

Is this in the ballpark?

 

GREAT: Every cue in pristine remastered audio quality as intended (this might differ from how it was composed or recorded because this would take into account a reconstruction using best sources.  For example, a scene might use bars 1 to 10 of an early version of a cue, edit to a revision for bar 11, edit back to take 8 for bar 12 to 20, type of thing.  If you used the original version of the cue, it wouldn't match what's in the film and what's in the film can and does have very jarring score editing so these issues would be fixed).  This is what Mike Matessino does THEN include alternates not previously heard for a full authoritative best presentation of a classic score.

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1 hour ago, karelm said:

 For example, a scene might use bars 1 to 10 of an early version of a cue, edit to a revision for bar 11, edit back to take 8 for bar 12 to 20, type of thing. 

 

Ok, so that is what you don't want, i.e. what's on the TPM set?

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My biggest gripe is that we never got UEs of AotC and RotS. As flawed as this UE may be, at least we got a good chunk of music unavailable on the OST. Who knows how long we will have to wait for expanded releases of the prequels. This year marking the 20th anniversary of TPM seemed to be the ideal opportunity, yet we got nothing. Perhaps after TRoS? Who knows.

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Thor, the answer is simpler than you can imagine.

 

The film (especially the last two reels) was extensively re-edited and altered after Williams recorded the score, hence the music had to be conformed and re-edited accordingly by music editors and dubbing mixers. The Ultimate Edition presents the score exactly as heard in the final film, with many sour and sometimes unmusical edits.

 

The usual “c&c” presentation that specialty labels and soundtrack fans likes usually tends to preserve the score as the composer originally intended and recorded, avoiding replicating film edits made in post-production (like the Ultimate Edition did).

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2 hours ago, Thor said:

 

Ok, so that is what you don't want, i.e. what's on the TPM set?

 

That 2 CD set, I forget what it was called? Ultimate or something.  That is why it is called lazy, it is a film output without care to the music quality or listening experience.  I can also see why it would leave Sony execs baffled because they are saying it is literally what is in the movie.  What goes in to a movie is not a great listening experience on its own though it might be a great cinematic experience.  The music when isolated is full of micro-edits, bad edits that are covered up with audio/foley/sound effects, imperfect transitions that go unnoticed in a theater but are glaring in isolation.  For example, in the film dub when all the various sound elements are put together in post production, the director might find the dialog too muffled and ask the score level to be dropped to allow the dialog to be better heard (the dialog might already be as loud as it can be).  In the film, you'll not notice this adjustment in score level.  In an isolated score you will suddenly hear the score level drop and generally inconsistent listening experience.  In the ultimate (or whatever it was called) release, you'll hear that drop.  That is freaking lazy!  But the execs are right, that was what was in the film.

 

EDIT: Here is a specific example of what I'm talking about.  Take a look at this scene.  At 1:00 in, when Morpheus says "he's the one" his acting is very good but the line is delivered quietly.  The music is swelling and there is a significant drop in the score of maybe 10+ db to allow his dialog space to be heard.  It's like smashing the breaks as the musical momentum builds.  You can't really detect it because of all the other theatrical elements happening in the cinematic experience but if the score were isolated, it would be a jarring experience.  So if this was a multi-generational prized franchise with glorious music and each and every release savored and it were treated this poorly, you'd hear all sorts of fury.

 

 

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OK, thanks for all the detailed information, guys. I think I'm getting a hang of it now. Sort of. Briefly put: For C&C enthusiasts, it's important that the film is used as a guide for the soundtrack experience, meaning that one must have all the music and in the film's order. But presenting post-production tweaks and edits is taking the film guide idea a 'bridge too far'. Now I'll just have to remember all this untill the next time this album is brought up.

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2 hours ago, JTWfan77 said:

My biggest gripe is that we never got UEs of AotC and RotS. As flawed as this UE may be, at least we got a good chunk of music unavailable on the OST. Who knows how long we will have to wait for expanded releases of the prequels. This year marking the 20th anniversary of TPM seemed to be the ideal opportunity, yet we got nothing. Perhaps after TRoS? Who knows.

Why so negative? We're only August. You don't honestly think they'll let TROS AND the TPM anniversary pass without anything spectacular?

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1 hour ago, bollemanneke said:

Why so negative? We're only August. You don't honestly think they'll let TROS AND the TPM anniversary pass without anything spectacular?

 

They did very little to mark the 20th anniversary of the prequel trilogy? An article on starwars.com? A panel on the dead day of their convention with like two guests. A little different than what we got for the original trilogy.

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10 hours ago, Thor said:

I had this for all but half a year back in the early 2000s before I sold it.

 

I've always had trouble understanding why people who generally like expanded/C&C releases, don't care for this. From what I've gleaned, it seems to be something with the fact that it doesn't contain the recording sessions tracks as they are, but that these tracks have been socalled 'micro-edited' in line with the film? I think I understand the difference between the two, but at the same time -- you who want ALL the music from a film, in the film's order, isn't this the best possible presentation, sticking as closely to the music of the film as possible?

 

This is so refreshing! Please tell us more!

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