Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Uh the Alien: Covenant score was okay. I liked the Goldsmith references. Evanus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,492 Posted October 18, 2019 Author Share Posted October 18, 2019 The Balfe stuff is actually quite good. Not on Richter's level, but several beautiful textures, like "Space Journey". Nice to find out that the undulating electronic figure that I mentioned in my first feedback, which I thought was either Richter or Balfe, is actually Nils Frahm's "Says", the last track on the album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 That's an existing piece from his 2013 album Spaces, not something newly written for the film https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaces_(Nils_Frahm_album) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,492 Posted October 18, 2019 Author Share Posted October 18, 2019 Yeah, I know. I think I read it in the end credits at the time, but I didn't put two and two together then. I'll definitely be checking out the Frahm album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,432 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, Thor said: The Balfe stuff is actually quite good. Not on Richter's level, but several beautiful textures, like "Space Journey". How are you telling what's Richter and what's Balfe? Is there a tracklist of the album that says which track was composed by whom? When I watched the movie, I thought the two scores blended well - I mean, if I haven't known before, I could tell this was the job of a singular person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,492 Posted October 18, 2019 Author Share Posted October 18, 2019 6 minutes ago, Edmilson said: How are you telling what's Richter and what's Balfe? Is there a tracklist of the album that says which track was composed by whom? Click on Jay's link above. It denotes the composer. It's Balfe from track 21 onwards, untill the last track, which is Frahm. Edmilson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,432 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HunterTech 989 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 And already the Balfe section has had a complete leak, weirdly mixed in with the Richter/Frahm tracks off the OST. The fact this manages to happen right after the album released is rather amazing timing, even if there has been shorter time spans prior. It's been said that Lorne had been asked to record a whole new score, before the studio then decided to mix and match between his and Max's. Whenever anyone asked him though, he'd insist it was all a group effort, even though he'd need to be there from the start for that to make sense. With the comments alluding to the alt. score suddenly disappearing and now the leak popping up, I have reason to believe the first story probably is true. Though where Nils and Robert Charles Mann fall into this is beyond me. Since I assume the Richter portion of the OST is what was originally assembled and likely contains pieces not in the film, it'd be interesting to compare the two different approaches directly now. From what I saw in the film, the Frahm piece is what stuck out the most, but I thought the rest of it was pretty effective within the picture. Even recognized the two tracks that were posted prior, which is a rarity on my end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jules 59 Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 Is there a link somewhere for Balfe's complete score? Also, does anyone know if the full 'Tuesday' cue appears in the movie? Or is it just sections taken from it, 21 minutes seems like a lot to lump in from a pre-existing album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,492 Posted October 19, 2019 Author Share Posted October 19, 2019 No doubt sections. But it would probably have been weirder to include just those sections than offering up the whole piece on an album. In any case, it's one of the pieces that will go out in my playlist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,331 Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 Thought it was a boring and predictable score. Doesn't bode well for the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,492 Posted October 20, 2019 Author Share Posted October 20, 2019 I absolutely love it. On my 5th listening now; gotta acquaint myself properly before I make a playlist out of the material. I'll write a pocket review of it next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 My reaction to this score is the same as my reaction to the film. It's not at all bad, and quite good at points, but the inspirations shine through really, really heavily, which makes it lack a certain amount of its own identity. I reckon the director had a lot of homages he wanted to make on his own as well as with the composers. Standouts are Terra Incognita and The Rings of Saturn which are both wonderfully fresh. The latter is some of the most harmonically crafty film music I've heard in recent years. Messiaen finding his way into a blockbuster. Resonantia is similarly impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jules 59 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 I've listened to it maybe 3 times now, the Richter stuff is holding up much better than Balfe's compositions unfortunately (although his stuff certainly isn't meritless). Going to write about it a little, and I'm finding myself increasingly worried about giving scores a fair assessment, particularly if it's something I liked. So I might give it a few more run-throughs still Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,492 Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 My pocket review (in English): http://celluloidtunes.no/ad-astra-max-richter-lorne-balfe/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 13 hours ago, Dixon Hill said: The latter is some of the most harmonically crafty film music I've heard in recent years. Kind of sad, that is. Try this one for some Penderecki (not 5 hours of running time, for a change): https://open.spotify.com/album/2BhIDZrVtzZ5v9xY6KblYJ?si=VSjxuXnTSkOkRSQP-8lVHA Dixon Hill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Yeah I took note of that one too - obviously a sure hand behind it as in The VVitch but Richter's lovely unusual harmonies struck me more than another horror score that's often an encyclopedia of avant gardeisms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 Witch!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Guernsey 2,282 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 Late to the party, but having randomly watched it the other night, I actually quite enjoyed the film itself, nonsense though a lot of it was, especially when trying to be scientifically accurate. One of those rare films where I never got the score, not really having any great affinity for Max Richter or Lorne Balfe (His Dark Materials being about the only thing by him I actually like and even the fine thematic material there is let down by the clumsy arrangement). I actually enjoyed the music in the film, working effectively with the overall atmosphere, even if it reinforced by feeling that I'd not get much out of it on album. Having said that, given that it had two fully credited composers and several additional composers credited at the end, it did make me wonder whether they wrote a chord each... plus, having coincidentally listened to Jerry's Star Trek: The Motion Picture a couple of days later, it made be kinda depressed that it took that many people to write a load of chords and only one Jerry Goldsmith (OK, plus Fred Steiner to write a couple of short cues using existing material, but that's just a time crunch thing) to write so much amazing material for what is also a somewhat ponderous sci-fi movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,492 Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 The score is clearly divided into Richter and Balfe tracks, so no confusion should be necessary here. The score was one of my top 10 in 2019. So was the film. Chewy and Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Guernsey 2,282 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 2 hours ago, Thor said: The score is clearly divided into Richter and Balfe tracks, so no confusion should be necessary here. The score was one of my top 10 in 2019. So was the film. Not sure if that was directed at me... but in any event, it wasn't clear who did what in the film, but I'm sure it's obvious on album if you read the credits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,492 Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 Yes, that's what I meant, i.e. the album credits. It's possible to discern the difference in the film too, but then there are also other things, like the Niels Frahm piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Guernsey 2,282 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 14 minutes ago, Thor said: Yes, that's what I meant, i.e. the album credits. It's possible to discern the difference in the film too, but then there are also other things, like the Niels Frahm piece. OK, yeah, I get what you mean... my point was rather that it took so many people to write a technically undemanding soundscape (effective though it was)compared to what (for example) Jerry Goldsmith could accomplish on his own. I just find that kinda depressing, especially given that Max Richter seems to be quite famous/popular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,492 Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 Well, I disagree with your assessment of the score. I found it to be an impressive soundscape, both in terms of colours and even melodic content, per my review above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,054 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 43 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said: OK, yeah, I get what you mean... my point was rather that it took so many people to write a technically undemanding soundscape (effective though it was)compared to what (for example) Jerry Goldsmith could accomplish on his own. I just find that kinda depressing, especially given that Max Richter seems to be quite famous/popular. Nice to see I'm not the only one who finds Richter overrated. The less said about the other, the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Guernsey 2,282 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 58 minutes ago, Thor said: Well, I disagree with your assessment of the score. I found it to be an impressive soundscape, both in terms of colours and even melodic content, per my review above. I'm not really disputing that point although I'd say the melodic content was pretty simplistic, but it was undoubtedly effective in the film. 47 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: Nice to see I'm not the only one who finds Richter overrated. The less said about the other, the better. But yeah haha... I don't really get it at all. I'd definitely much rather listen to Star Trek: TMP (or anything else by Jerry Goldsmith) any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,054 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 Me too, and I'm not really a Goldsmith fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Guernsey 2,282 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 9 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: Me too, and I'm not really a Goldsmith fan. Shock horror ;-) I've been on a bit of a Goldsmith kick recently, but that's probably for another thread... Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 22 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said: But yeah haha... I don't really get it at all. I'd definitely much rather listen to Star Trek: TMP (or anything else by Jerry Goldsmith) any day. There’s really nothing to get. Music is subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,054 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 He probably doesn't get why others are enamoured of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Guernsey 2,282 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 6 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: He probably doesn't get why others are enamoured of it. As much as anything, it was more the number of people required to write fairly simplistic music that amazed me. Maybe the director/producers were super demanding and kept wanting something else that Richter/Balfe couldn't provide but still... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 49 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: He probably doesn't get why others are enamoured of it. Again, there’s nothing to get. We all like different music and have different tastes. And apart from Thor, I don’t think anyone else on this board is enamored with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,054 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Koray Savas said: apart from Thor, I don’t think anyone else on this board is enamored with it. How do you know that? We all like different music and have different tastes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post HunterTech 989 Posted February 28, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted February 28, 2021 10 hours ago, Tom Guernsey said: Having said that, given that it had two fully credited composers and several additional composers credited at the end, it did make me wonder whether they wrote a chord each... 9 hours ago, Thor said: The score is clearly divided into Richter and Balfe tracks, so no confusion should be necessary here. This score is an absolute mess production wise. While it can be easy to assume that Richter got Balfed and apply the usual spiel about that here, it's much more complicated than that. Richter was the first hired composer, and presumably scored the original cut of the movie on his lonesome. However, once it was decided that the film needed some retooling in key areas, Balfe was brought on to do his usual thing. And yet, somewhere in the midst of that, two other composers were brought in to basically do the same job. Robert Charles Mann wrote a entire score that basically got 90% rejected, and Nils Frahm very likely composed his own tracks that got utilized in addition to Says being licensed and reworked. Not even Lorne was immune from this, as a good chunk of what he made went unused in favor of key selections of Max's initial efforts. As such, we have a whole product that comprises the work of four different composers. Every single one having chunks of their work being heavily hacked together to form a somewhat cohesive and anonymous result for the movie. Take the official album for instance. You'll find that 40-60% of what Richter wrote went unused in favor of repeated uses of To The Stars and I Put All That Away. Balfe's section is even more infuriating, as every track is basically randomly selected and only like one or two is actually used. Balfe's full contributions were leaked the day after the OST released, Mann had to resort to releasing his selection of tracks twice, and we don't know the full extent of what Frahm did outside of two possible cues. I can absolutely understand why the score hasn't been able to really click for some, thanks to how insanely fragmented the whole situation is. It's a further reminder of how bad the state of film scoring has become in Hollywood. Edmilson, Tom Guernsey and Chewy 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 7 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: How do you know that? We all like different music and have different tastes. What’s your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 Coolest thing in this film was the Frahms piece, which was always badass on its own anyway. This score, like much of his later work, is Richter on auto-pilot. Don't remember anything about the Balfe stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,054 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 5 hours ago, Koray Savas said: What’s your point? That you don't approve of your own arguments when used against you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 12 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: That you don't approve of your own arguments when used against you. My argument is that music is subjective. Whether people on this board like the score or not has nothing to do with that. You seem focused on “not getting” why someone likes a score. Your energy is better spent elsewhere. Just let people enjoy the music they like. Jay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,054 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 4 minutes ago, Koray Savas said: My argument is that music is subjective. Whether people on this board like the score or not has nothing to do with that. Still, you pretend to know what people like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,492 Posted March 1, 2021 Author Share Posted March 1, 2021 11 hours ago, HunterTech said: This score is an absolute mess production wise. While it can be easy to assume that Richter got Balfed and apply the usual spiel about that here, it's much more complicated than that. Not saying there wasn't a complicated production history, I'm saying who did what is clearly marked on the album. While the album is twice as long as it should be, the disparate elements (Richter, Balfe, Frahm) come together well. Again, I refer back to the pocket review I posted earlier in the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 7 hours ago, Koray Savas said: What’s your point? You expect SHARK to have a point?! You know better than that! 1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said: Still, you pretend to know what people like. I love watching you two fight!😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,054 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 3 minutes ago, bruce marshall said: I love watching you two fight!😁 We really should start charging. It's probably the best entertainment you'll see today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 Just now, Jurassic Shark said: We really should start charging. It's probably the best entertainment you'll see today. You remind of those two piranha fighting in FROM.RUSSIA WITH LOVE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HunterTech 989 Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 On 18/10/2019 at 11:02 AM, HunterTech said: The file tags included a more raw list: AA 1m02 Opening c7 v10.02_SW06_18_2Mix AA 1m04 Psychological Evaluation c11 v2.00_SW03_18_2Mix AA 1m06 The Fall c11 v6.03_SW02_18_2Mix AA 1m08 Hospital c10 v5.01 ALT_SW03_18_2Mix AA 1m10A Briefing Intro c10 v1.00_SW01_18_2Mix AA 1m10 Briefing c10 v2.01_SW02_18_2Mix AA 1m12 Message From Dad c10 v4.00_SW01_18_2Mix AA 2m14 Message to Eve c10 v2.03_SW04_18_2Mix AA 2m16 Trip To The Moon v4.00 c10_SW04_18_2Mix AA 2m18 Moon Landing c10 v6.00_SW02_18_2Mix AA 2m20 Moon Drive c10 v16.03_SW02_18_2Mix AA 2m22 Pirate Attack c10 v4.00_SW02_18_2Mix AA 2m23 Crater Escape c10 v1.02_SW02_18_2Mix AA 2m24 The Loss c10 v4.01_SW02_18_2Mix AA 2m26-27 The Message - Launch c10 v1.02_SW02_18_2Mix AA 3m30 Roy Views the Message c10 v4.02_SW03_18_2Mix AA 3m32 Mayday c10 v1.03_SW02_18_2Mix AA 3m36 JGBP_v10 LB_SW04_18_2Mix AA 3m38 Psychological Report c10 v1.02_SW02_18_2Mix AA 3m40 Mars Landing c10 v2.01_SW02_18_2Mix AA 3m42 Station Arrival c7 v3.02_SW01_18_2Mix AA 3m44 First Message To Dad c10 v3.00_SW01_18_2Mix AA 4m46 Second Message To Dad c10 v3.02 ALT_SW01_18_2Mix AA 4m50 Dad's True Story c10 v6.01 LB1 ALT_SW02_18_2Mix AA 4m51 Video c10 v14.02_SW04_18_2Mix AA 4m51b Rover Ride c10 v8.00_SW01_18_2Mix AA 4m52 Underground Lake c7 v1.05_SW02_18_2Mix AA 4m52 Underground Lake c10 v2.00_SW01_18_2Mix AA 4m54 Roy Boards Cepheus c10 v3.00_SW01_18_2Mix AA 5m55 Deceased Crew c10 v1.04_SW01_18_2Mix AA 5m58 Trip to Neptune c11 v5.03_SW01_18_2Mix AA 5m60 Shuttle To Lima c10 v1.04_SW01_18_2Mix AA 5m64 Roy Finds Dad c11 v1.00_SW02_18_2Mix AA 5m66 Talking to Dad c10 v5.01_SW01_18_2Mix AA 6m68 Roy Confronts Dad c10 v3.04_SW04_18_2Mix AA 6m72 Return To Craft c11.8 v9.00_SW01_18_2Mix AA 6m72 Return to the Craft v4.00 c10_SW01_18_2Mix AA 6m74 Coming Home c10 v2.01_SW01_18_2Mix AA 6m76 The End c11 v5.02_SW01_18_2Mix AA 6m77 End Credits c11 v5.02_SW01_18_2Mix AA Orbs v1.00_SW01_18_2Mix On 28/02/2021 at 2:00 PM, HunterTech said: Robert Charles Mann - Ad Astra (The Unused Cues) Source: composer YT videos that recently got replaced with a proper album that lacks two cues listed here 1m1 Opening Titles Theme 1m2 No Bad Dreams, Eve's Theme 1m3 First Surge, Fall from the Space Antenna 2m1 Is it Your First Flight to the Moon? 2m3 Moon Rover Pirate Attack 2m4 Don't Trust Space Com 3m0.1 Baboon Attack 3m1 The Crew is Shattered 3m2 Psyche Evaluation, I Don't Want to be My Dad 3m3 Another Surge as the Cepheus Lands on Mars 3m4 Welcome to the Red Planet, Major 4m2 I Need to Know, Are We Gonna Die? 4m3 Your Father Murdered My Parents 4m4 I Will Confront My Father 5m1 Hallucinating Journey to Neptune (Eve's Theme) 5m2 Hallucinating Journey to Neptune, Part 2 5m3 Arrival at The Lima Project 6m4 Return to Earth 6m5 Epilogue, Eve's Theme Also, here are cue titles that popped up on BMI for Max Richter that likely are unreleased tracks from his own score: BRIEFING PT 1 FALL COMPOSITION 1 PART 1 RETURN TO THE CRAFT PT 1 ROY VIEWS THE MESSAGE STATION ARRIVAL PART A TRIP TO NEPTUNE PART 1 UNDERGROUND LAKE CHOIR ADD On 28/09/2021 at 12:58 AM, HunterTech said: And now cocatalog has decided to give us a presumably semi-final cue list for Ad Astra's score as it appears in film: 1m02 Opening Combo MR LB 1m06 Part 1 The Fall Combo MR LB 1m06 Part 2 The Fall Combo MR LB 1m07 Parachute LB 1m08 Hospital MR 1m10A Briefing Pt 1 MR 1m10B Briefing Pt 2 LB 1m12 Message From Dad MR 2m18 Moon Landing LB 2m20 Moon Drive MR 2m22 Pirate Attack Combo LB MR RCM 2m24 The Loss LB 2m26 The Message LB 3m30 Roy Views The Message MR 3m32 Mayday LB 3m36 Prayer LB 3m38 Psychological Report MR 3m40 Mars Landing LB 3m42 Station Arrival MR 4m46 Second Message To Dad MR 4m48 Psychological Evaluation Failure MR 4m51 Video LB 4m52 Rover Ride Through Underground Lake Combo LB MR 4m53 Roy Runs To The Rocket LB 4m54AB Roy Boards Cepheus Combo LB MR 5m58A Trip To Neptune Part 1 MR 5m60 Shuttle to Lima LB 5m64 Roy Finds Dad Combo LB RCM 5m66 Talking To Dad Combo MR LB 6m68 Roy Confronts Dad MR 6m72 Return To The Craft Combo MR LB 6m74 Coming Home Combo LB MR 6m76 The End MR 6m78 End Credits 1 MR 2m6AA 6m80 End Credits 2 MR Triangle 6m82 End Credits 3 LB Prayer 6m84 End Credits 4 LB Moon Drive 6m86 End Credits 5 MR Opening (MR = Max Richter LB = Lorne Balfe RCM = Robert Charles Mann) In case the post I made earlier in the year didn't make its point strongly enough: this score is a serious mess. I'd love to say the newest cue list reflects what's in the final film, but I'm just not sure based on the few key bits I studied. For one, no Nils Frahm, which from the outset might make it appear like he didn't actually contribute to the underscore. But then there's key cue title/scene absences here that conveniently covered scenes where we've suspected he was involved (The first Psychological Evaluation before the Fall sequence, the Moon Launch cue, the second half of the Trip to Neptune scene). Not to mention that I'm positive that the one bit of RCM I did recognize in the film was during 6m72, for which he isn't credited here. Of course, it's possible some of these parts are baked within the previous or following cues, but it seems to me like this either was for a semi-final version of the score in-movie, or a version without Frahm as a result of him owning his own compositions possibly. Additionally, to add to the Frahm speculation, a couple of cue numbers from the Balfe leak aren't accounted for here (1m04, 2m14, 2m16, 2m23, 2m27, 3m44, 4m50, 4m51b (likely folded into 4m52 on the list), 5m55, 6m77 (probably just moved up to 6m78)). Two of those likely are taken up by source music in the final film (2m16 being Says and 5m55 being Tuesday), with one other likely taken up by a tracked cue (2m23 being 3m36 JGBP). That leaves us with the rest, some of which easily line up with those aforementioned sequences earlier. I suspect the theoretical 5m58B is him too, since Richter and Mann did score that sequence in two parts from the looks of it. (Extra tidbits: there is no 1m07 or 4m53 in the Balfe leak, but I assume they're isolated portions from the preceding cues. Also, the BMI titles for Richter are in the new list, including one I hadn't included per lacking relevance reasons at the time (AD ASTRA END CREDITS PART 5)). It really sucks for the individual composers involved that their work got mistreated to the degree that they did, but I don't know if it would've lead to this much good music if things were done more normally. Certainly costed its potential to really captivate most casual listeners, given several of the initial reactions to what was available of the work then. In any case, I do hope Balfe and Frahm get to release proper albums for their efforts, since there's definitely some great stuff there that should be reaching more ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,492 Posted September 28, 2021 Author Share Posted September 28, 2021 Mistreated? I thought it all worked wonderfully organic in the film, and on the soundtrack the credits are clearly marked (Richter first, then the Balfe). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 4 hours ago, HunterTech said: In case the post I made earlier in the year didn't make its point strongly enough: this score is a serious mess. I'd love to say the newest cue list reflects what's in the final film, but I'm just not sure based on the few key bits I studied. For one, no Nils Frahm, which from the outset might make it appear like he didn't actually contribute to the underscore. But then there's key cue title/scene absences here that conveniently covered scenes where we've suspected he was involved (The first Psychological Evaluation before the Fall sequence, the Moon Launch cue, the second half of the Trip to Neptune scene). Not to mention that I'm positive that the one bit of RCM I did recognize in the film was during 6m72, for which he isn't credited here. Of course, it's possible some of these parts are baked within the previous or following cues, but it seems to me like this either was for a semi-final version of the score in-movie, or a version without Frahm as a result of him owning his own compositions possibly. Additionally, to add to the Frahm speculation, a couple of cue numbers from the Balfe leak aren't accounted for here (1m04, 2m14, 2m16, 2m23, 2m27, 3m44, 4m50, 4m51b (likely folded into 4m52 on the list), 5m55, 6m77 (probably just moved up to 6m78)). Two of those likely are taken up by source music in the final film (2m16 being Says and 5m55 being Tuesday), with one other likely taken up by a tracked cue (2m23 being 3m36 JGBP). That leaves us with the rest, some of which easily lining up with those aforementioned sequences earlier. I suspect the theoretical 5m58B is him too, since Richter and Mann did score that sequence in two parts from the looks of it. (Extra tidbits: there is no 1m07 or 4m53 in the Balfe leak, but I assume they're isolated portions from the preceding cues. Also, the BMI titles for Richter are in the new list, including one I hadn't included per lacking relevance reasons at the time (AD ASTRA END CREDITS PART 5)). It really sucks for the individual composers involved that their work got mistreated to the degree that they did, but I don't know if it would've lead to this much good music if things were done more normally. Certainly costed its potential to really captivate most casual listeners, given several of the initial reactions to what was available of the work then. In any case, I do hope Balfe and Frahm get to release proper albums for their efforts, since there's definitely some great stuff there that should be reaching more ears. You've used more words than should ever be used for this waste of film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,492 Posted September 28, 2021 Author Share Posted September 28, 2021 It’s a fine film. Seen it four times now. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HunterTech 989 Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 9 hours ago, Thor said: Mistreated? I thought it all worked wonderfully organic in the film, and on the soundtrack the credits are clearly marked (Richter first, then the Balfe). It might help to reread parts of what I wrote earlier in the year: On 28/02/2021 at 1:42 PM, HunterTech said: Richter was the first hired composer, and presumably scored the original cut of the movie on his lonesome. However, once it was decided that the film needed some retooling in key areas, Balfe was brought on to do his usual thing. And yet, somewhere in the midst of that, two other composers were brought in to basically do the same job. Robert Charles Mann wrote a entire score that basically got 90% rejected, and Nils Frahm very likely composed his own tracks that got utilized in addition to Says being licensed and reworked. Not even Lorne was immune from this, as a good chunk of what he made went unused in favor of key selections of Max's initial efforts. As such, we have a whole product that comprises the work of four different composers. Every single one having chunks of their work being heavily hacked together to form a somewhat cohesive and anonymous result for the movie. Take the official album for instance. You'll find that 40-60% of what Richter wrote went unused in favor of repeated uses of To The Stars and I Put All That Away. Balfe's section is even more infuriating, as every track is basically randomly selected and only like one or two is actually used. Balfe's full contributions were leaked the day after the OST released, Mann had to resort to releasing his selection of tracks twice, and we don't know the full extent of what Frahm did outside of two possible cues. It might seem perfectly functional in the film, but that doesn't change everything that happened behind the scenes. I know you're so stringent in your "albums know best and the film is where all the unreleased music should stay" views, but it's a whole different matter if so much of the material that went unused also got fully discarded for the slightly delayed OST release. I believe that Balfe and Frahm should be allowed to make full albums based on their work, since it's so apparent that there's much more than what the film and official album lets on about their efforts. Richter and Mann were lucky that they got to present a bulk of what they originally composed, so the same can certainly apply to the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,492 Posted September 28, 2021 Author Share Posted September 28, 2021 The soundtrack is ridiculously long at 2 hours and 7 minutes already, so I'd say that's pretty generous. Even if you take away the Frahm and the 21-minute "Tuesday" piece from Richter's Virgina Woolf album, it's still about an hour too long. That, with the fact that the score worked beautifully in the film and that both the Richter and Balfe cues were credited properly on the album (probably a good idea to separate them into two parts, since they're so different in style), I can't say that I think 'mistreated' is a proper term to use, whether you subscribe to the A&A or C&C ideology. But you're obviously free to desire even more, if that's your thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HunterTech 989 Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 Holy hell, are you even reading what I'm writing here? For one, nowhere did I make a point about the soundtrack (or even the film for that matter) itself being confusing in terms of who did what, since it was always obvious to me that Balfe's section was pretty much tacked on at the last minute. And to jump on that point more: Balfe actually had to be told that the album was releasing, since he wasn't informed of it prior. Heck, he had to pretty much pull down his original YT upload of Prayer and eventually release it properly through the label as a single, since they basically hadn't made any proper negotiations prior. Not only that, but while he hasn't followed through on it since, he did write on Facebook that he would be releasing more cues, implying that the selection on the OST wasn't quite to his liking. If you were to take the time to even just look at the two full cue lists from the score, you can get a basic idea of how much Balfe's work got rejected in favor of Richter's. Even moreso if you actually compare the leak to what's in the film (though I know you won't do that). The actual point I want to make here is that 4 composers each had their own go at making separate scores for the film, of which we only have like half of them officially available. They can be whole separate releases by themselves akin to Zimmer's Sketchbook, since you don't seem to mind those a lot. You can keep the OST all you want, but all I ask for is a fairer presentation of what the others put into the project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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