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DigitalfreakNYC

"Temple of Doom" Question

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IF/When an expanded (and hopefully complete) ToD is released, I had an interesting question that I'd love to get some feedback on.
For some strange reason, I really love the sacrifice music.  However, there are so many variations in the film between the two scenes it's used in. 

 

How do you think it will ultimately be presented?  Will we just get the album version and that's it?  No sweeteners or variations? 

I also wonder how it was recorded....

 

Just me over here having thoughts that take me away from real work...

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In all likelihood, the film versions (complete with all sweeteners) will be in the main program and a carbon copy of the album version will be relegated to the bonus section.

 

I wouldn't expect a bunch of sweetener-free cues to be included. Williams doesn't generally entertain stuff like that; Mike just puts everything recorded where it belongs and relegates the "legitimate" alternates (plus any cue that had a section replaced with an insert in the final film, like Water!) to the end of the program.

 

I could be forgetting some stuff but only A.I. springs to mind where Mike actually included an orchestral-only segment of the Blue Fairy cue, and I think that's only because the film itself dialed out the singer for a fragment of that cue (hence he was able to justify including both versions on the set).

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4 minutes ago, crumbs said:

In all likelihood, the film versions (complete with all sweeteners) will be in the main program and a carbon copy of the album version will be relegated to the bonus section.

 

I wouldn't expect a bunch of sweetener-free cues to be included. Williams doesn't generally entertain stuff like that; Mike just puts everything where it belongs with whatever it was intended for, then relegates the actual alternates (so any cue that had an insert replace a section in the final film, like Water!) at the end of the program.

I guess because it doesn't seem like anything was necessarily recorded as intended.  It seems like it was just edited in post, for the most part.  There's lots of crazy edits so it's pretty sloppy to put it in as heard in the film.

 

1 minute ago, Fal J. M. Skywalker said:

What's in the film is just an edit of the album version + an additional Sanskrit cue.

Surely there's far more than just that.  I feel like I hear differences all over the place.  I mean...granted, it's only from surrounds but, still.

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I'm not familiar enough with ToD to make a better guesstimate with the sweeteners. The cue list and all the overlays/sweeteners were too convoluted for me to bother analysing.

 

If the album version of that cue is just an edited copy of the film cue, I doubt it'll be included anywhere on the set. I always thought that album track was a specific album arrangement, using different takes to the film version? I might be wrong there.

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1 minute ago, DigitalfreakNYC said:

I guess because it doesn't seem like anything was necessarily recorded as intended.  It seems like it was just edited in post, for the most part.  There's lots of crazy edits so it's pretty sloppy to put it in as heard in the film.

 

Surely there's far more than just that.  I feel like I hear differences all over the place.  I mean...granted, it's only from surrounds but, still.

Some that could be musical sound effects (the children crying sounds)

 

Also when I said it was the album version, I actually meant it was the cue we have on the album, obviously there is the three percussion sweeteners (which we can hear bits of in LEGO IJ 2), the second Sanskrit cue (the quiet chanting),  and the that vocal overlay.

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And how about later, during Short Round Escapes and so? I know the penultimate rythmic AH AH AH AH right before Saving Willie is straight from the album recording, was there anything else? Multiple versions, inserts? My main source of info is my own memory of how the sound quality changed in your complete edit!

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2 minutes ago, Holko said:

Oh no, the album track's assembled from the film recordings all right.

 

Does the album version feature overlays/sweeteners not used in the final film?

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This might be easier:

 

The major things I'm referring to:
At 1:00, it sounds like there's more drums there - which leads into the different music when Mola looks at the boy.

2:18 is different for about 20 seconds with sweetners after that??

3:14, there's an overlay (I believe) of the chorus singing in a higher octave that continues.

The ending sounds a bit different as well.

 

Now, I'm also only talking about the main sacrifice up until 4:25.  The rest is easily added.
(I apologize in advance for my primitive understanding of some of this stuff.)
 

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Many shots also indicate the album version could have been a prerecording, later edited and enhanced to conform to the film because it was deemed to sound good enough?

 

1:00-1:34 definitely has more percusson and choir, even an unreleased part

2:12-2:57 is unreleased, unless it's significant chour and chimes overlaid on top of the middle, mostly percussion section?

3:14-3:40 unreleased choir overlay plus a little unreleased timpani segment when it's onscreen

3:52-4:21 sounds almost like a different take, faster, different elements

4:57-end: unreleased

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The section at 4:25 seems to be the original cue without one of the sweeteners/choral overlays used in the album version (the very loud vocal screeching heard prominently at the end of the OST track).

 

It's tricky to say but I'd guess the version in the film score section would be exactly the cue as heard in the film mix (even if Williams recorded an unused sweetener), then an alternate version of the track will be included in the bonus section with the opposite to the film mix (so any unused sweeteners reinstated, then others dialled out -- like the film mix's drumroll -- to match the album version).

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Sweetener #1 is the timpani pounding that ends with a roll, and the #2 is the pounding version, which we have from an LEGO Indy 2 5.1 cutscenes XB360 rip I did.

 

(#3 is pounding also, but slightly different)

 

Also 7m2 "More Sacrifice" is the quiet ending.

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I guess a similar question could be asked of the circus organ sweetener in TLC. I don't think anyone expects Mike to include two versions of Indy's First Adventure just so we have the cue with AND without that sweetener; it should never have been released without it in the first place.

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But that mostly replaces the actual recording! I'd expect at least an alternate segment. Same with the Venice boat chase and the mandolin sweeteners.

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Well they're both available on previous releases. I'd rather any room on the disc went towards more interesting alternates or whatever, unless it all fits on two discs.

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7 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Well they're both available on previous releases. I'd rather any room on the disc went towards more interesting alternates or whatever, unless it all fits on two discs.

You know Williams.  The original soundtrack usually has to be included.

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That's generally only if there's room to include the entire soundtrack. Otherwise, Mike just includes the OST tracks that differ from the film score versions (otherwise it's needlessly doubling up on material).

 

Where things start getting messy is those scores where different mixes of the score were made for the film and the soundtrack, like the first two Star Wars scores. Who knows how he'll tackle that one -- probably wishes Disney just did the job properly with the "Demastered" releases. :P

 

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I was thinking about it these days, when I friend managed to rip the digital audio tracks from the 1986 laserdisc and synch it with the 2012 blu-ray and we watched it (I haven't seen it in a while). Only MM will know how to properly present the material from ToD. It has so many edits, inserts and what have you...

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It would be amazing if Williams presented this as a concert piece. I think audiences would get a kick out of the choral and percussion features, and it’d be a nice deviation from the standard concert fare.

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