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What changes would it take for you to not consider TLJ the worst of SW scores?


Fabulin

What changes would it take for you to consider TLJ score great?  

61 members have voted

  1. 1. I could have done more... but what exactly?---John Williams, 87

    • The First Order March
    • An catchy theme for Snoke.
    • A long, melodious theme for Kylo Ren
    • Reylo / Connection Theme
    • A new theme for Ankh-To. Jedi Steps is obviously not enough to represent it!
    • Rework Rebellion is Reborn, The Spark, and Canto Bight. They are all second-tier!
    • Better action music. What we got in TLJ is no good.
    • Reinvent your general sound palette (yes, again!)
    • Nothing. The Last Jedi score is already great.


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The story takes place literally zero seconds after The Force Awakens. So what has changed in the hearts and souls of the new goodies and the new baddies of the Star Wars Galaxy? What can a composer bring to the film? 
 

Turns out the goodies are so strong, that even their music doesn’t evolve beyond their appearances in TFA. And the baddies? They’re disposable so there’s no need for too much development for both Snoke and Kylo Ren’s themes.

 

In the prequels, when legacy props or characters come to focus, we can hear how JW plants his devices of musical foreshadowing. But after the use of “Burning Homestead” in TFA, the powers that be are almost determined to have JW do the same whenever legacy stuff shows up.
 

Oh Yoda! And there’s Luke and Leia! Let’s put in the concert pieces and be done with this. Let’s not really develop the themes of the OT because the OT characters don’t have arcs now.
 

This is Star Wars for the postmodern SW hipsters of the 2010s. There’s no need to develop a second discussion on family and destiny between Luke and Leia. Slap on Luke and Leia to a conversation about hair and dice is enough for these Marvel addicts. Because that’s what space families talk about 30 years into their space fight against the political and spiritual forces of space darkness. Transtextuality trumps authenticity. 

 

“I've been dying a little bit each day since you came back into my life.”

 

Yeah, Padme, this current revival of SW is just as bad as the one you’re in. 

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Aren't Star Wars and Marvel the opposite of hipster?  That word is supposed to have a meaning, it's not just a label you slap on whatever imagined person you've decided not to like.

 

a person who follows the latest trends and fashions, especially those regarded as being outside the cultural mainstream.

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Okay maybe I was being way too emotional. :w00t::w00t::w00t::w00t:

But... I really believe that those who are ultra passionate about the new SW like the Reylo fans think of themselves as hipsters.

 

Let's just call them SW hipsters.

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On 10/24/2019 at 2:13 AM, Tom said:

It lacks a theme of epic greatness, which all of the others have. /- - -/

 

I hate the movie so much that it clouds my judgment a bit on the music, and the weird end credits chop-job does not help matters at all.

 

I couldn’t agree with this sentiment more.

 

The score as heard in the movie was serviceable. The OST felt chopped up, jumping from one place to the other, none of the thematic ideas given the time to breathe.

 

The score to TLJ certainly had a lot of good music in it, it’s just not presenter in the most easy-to-digest way.

 

I think JW did the best he could - the end resultat is no faults of his! - but I chalk the lack of wholeness up to an inexperienced indie director, approaching the franchise like a kid who wants to eat the cake and have it too.

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10 minutes ago, Smaug the iron said:

The last Jedi is great. I think it is better then the prequels and TFA (and I really like them as well). The action is really good and it has great themes (old and new). 

tumblr_d0fc8e646e8fcaa7bddcc98751d4773f_66ef42a8_540.gif

Welcome, Smaug the iron.

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2 hours ago, A Ghost From Highwood said:

This is Star Wars for the postmodern SW hipsters of the 2010s. There’s no need to develop a second discussion on family and destiny between Luke and Leia. Slap on Luke and Leia to a conversation about hair and dice is enough for these Marvel addicts.

 

But that's it, in a nutshell. What Di$ney considers moviemaking these days, and by proxy the directors and other artists attached to these movies, is geared towards cinemagoers that are vastly different to those 30 years ago. In a way, the characterizations in SW 7 and 8 are probably as good as it gets these days in global franchises, even with the lame fan service that's just part of the parcel.

 

The only thing i take away from it is that i'm 22 years to old to feel much affinity for this kind of stuff, so why bother.

 

 

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10 hours ago, publicist said:

I must admit i never listened to it again after it came out, save for that one concert cue i put on some playlists. From what i remember the composting got a bit much, especially since Williams' new composing style and his more heart-on-its-sleeve old themes don't really mesh that well. All three movies should make for one good saga finale playlist, methinks. 

 

In general I feel this score trilogy is on its way to adding up to more than its parts. Lacking insta-classic showstoppers but the broader architecture and craftsmanship is something to be admired as always, these days more than ever.

 

Versus the prequel trilogy which is loaded with individual highlights but easier to criticize for its love-em-and-leave-em thematic approach, as far as that matters.

 

The first three contain the best of both worlds.

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On 10/25/2019 at 4:39 PM, Remco said:

 

I have to disagree. Luke and Leia doesn’t resemble the concert version at all, Leia’s theme properly connects with the stuff before and the force theme statement afterwards, and why would anyone really have an issue with the piccolo solo at the beginning?

 

And besides, all of the music was properly re-recorded, not tracked by an editor or something.

 

I just don’t see how all of this is an issue when TLJ certainly isn’t the only SW film that re-uses a couple of minutes of music here and there.

 

I'm not saying they were needledropped. I'm saying that we know from that interview with Rian Johnson that his editor temp tracked the entire movie with old Williams music, so it was obvious they did that for those scenes. I don't think Leia's theme has been heard that close to the concert piece at all.

 

I'm just saying the temp tracking was obvious. It's a totally different thing from the prequels where they just plopped in old music straight up. Like Attack of the Clones having the same main title and even a little bit of the part after before a hard edit into Attack of the Clones music.

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18 hours ago, mrbellamy said:

Versus the prequel trilogy which is loaded with individual highlights but easier to criticize for its love-em-and-leave-em thematic approach, as far as that matters.

 

I agree. Even though the trilogy isn't complete, the consistency in scoring between the two films thus far is a hell of a lot closer than TPM > AOTC. But then it comes down to personal preference. Should each score go out of its way to be stylistically different from the previous one, or texturally consistent?

 

I'd actually argue TLJ is a very different type of Star Wars score to TFA but the consistency in themes was refreshing to my ears when you consider what John has recently done with sequels (often jettisoning all but a cursory nod to previous scores, TLW and POA being the most brutal examples).

 

It remains to be seen if this is a result of Williams accentuating the fact the story picks up minutes after TFA finished, or just a result of the very short break between projects (less than 12 months from memory).

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4 hours ago, Modest Expectations said:

There is still the possibility that Williams took the Star Wars saga project with a new type of seriousness by the time of the penultimate score, approaching it more like Wagner and Shore.

 

There's nothing inherently more Wagnerian about The Last Jedi than any other score in the Williams'-penned Star Wars cycle.

 

I will however agree with what I believe @crumbs is saying about the difference from The Force Awakens, in that The Last Jedi is a much, much more energetic and extroverted score. For that alone, its the superior of the two in my mind.

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I'm not disagreeing, but can you elaborate on "energetic and extroverted"?  I've heard TFA many, many more times than TLJ, and I'm curious what you mean.

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1 minute ago, mstrox said:

Anyone else think the TROS score will get dark and disturbing?

 

John Williams is incapable of doing "dark and disturbing."  This is why he could only do the first three Potter scores, remember?

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I tend to think that the score is pretty great as is. But the glaring omission in my mind is a big new theme that is central to the movie. The new themes here are relatively minor and secondary. The obvious subject matter in my head would be a Reylo/connection/balance sort of theme. Considering how Rey and Kylo's complicated and developing relationship is central to not just this film but the trilogy as a whole, it seems like a real missed opportunity, especially when there's a sequence that could have featured a really show stopping rendition of it (the throne room), and it could have ported over to TROS as well.

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22 minutes ago, DominicCobb said:

I tend to think that the score is pretty great as is. But the glaring omission in my mind is a big new theme that is central to the movie. The new themes here are relatively minor and secondary. The obvious subject matter in my head would be a Reylo/connection/balance sort of theme. Considering how Rey and Kylo's complicated and developing relationship is central to not just this film but the trilogy as a whole, it seems like a real missed opportunity, especially when there's a sequence that could have featured a really show stopping rendition of it (the throne room), and it could have ported over to TROS as well.

 

Yeah I’ve grown to enjoy “A New Alliance” and the mickey-mousing for what it is but I was pretty disappointed that he didn’t go for something broader when I first saw that sequence. Like a more singular melodic or rhythmic action piece. 

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I'm still stunned that Williams wrote a pair of themes for (apparently) profoundly related characters that begin and end with the same phrase and, as far as I know, he has yet to capitalize on that overlap, despite numerous scenes together, two of which are epic battle scenes.

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6 hours ago, igger6 said:

I'm still stunned that Williams wrote a pair of themes for (apparently) profoundly related characters that begin and end with the same phrase and, as far as I know, he has yet to capitalize on that overlap, despite numerous scenes together, two of which are epic battle scenes.

Luke and Rose?

 

Oh, wait, you mean, Rey and Kylo Ren?

 

 

 

tenor.gif

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7 hours ago, igger6 said:

I'm still stunned that Williams wrote a pair of themes for (apparently) profoundly related characters that begin and end with the same phrase and, as far as I know, he has yet to capitalize on that overlap, despite numerous scenes together, two of which are epic battle scenes.

 

Vaguebooking!

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Rey's theme begins with the same three notes that Kylo's main motif ends with.  But they never (as far as I know) overlap or intertwine in any meaningful way during "The Ways of the Force" or "A New Alliance."  I don't know if there's any way musically to capitalize on that, but it sure seems like there ought to be.  Somewhere in Williams' office, a bobblehead of Howard Shore is shaking its head in nerdy disappointment.

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15 hours ago, igger6 said:

Rey's theme begins with the same three notes that Kylo's main motif ends with.  But they never (as far as I know) overlap or intertwine in any meaningful way during "The Ways of the Force" or "A New Alliance."  I don't know if there's any way musically to capitalize on that, but it sure seems like there ought to be.  Somewhere in Williams' office, a bobblehead of Howard Shore is shaking its head in nerdy disappointment.

Maybe Williams is saving that for TRoS? Maybe he doesn't care what you think!

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