Why All the Fuss About AOTC Cut-and-Paste?

[Ross 1]

I've just found my ROTJ SE CD (actually, only the first one, I might have to buy the whole set again) and I'm listening to it right now.

Sail Barge Assault is FULL of music from the other movies. Actually there are only a few seconds (not even a minute) of original music. So, why all the fuss about the same thing being done to AOTC. I'd understand it if it were the first time, but it's not the case. I guess we all were wrong to ignore that possibility.

-ROSS, who knows he'll probably be banned for this opinion.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

A few years ago they got on to me for having the same opinion.

But I for one agree with you.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Ross, clearly you do not understand the difference between NEW musical cues that use themes from earlier films, and music thast was composed and recorded for one film, and re-used in another, in a severely mutilated form..

ROTJ only has 20 seconds of music from another film (TESB), nothing compared to the travesty of AOTC.

Stefancos- who likes Sail Barge Assault.

[Jay 37,322]

Yes, there is a big difference from using older themes in arrangements in a new score - thats usually not a problem.

In AOTC, they used segments of music recorded in 1999 for the Phantom Menace and sprinkled them throughout the movie. Big difference.

-Jason

1941 (Complete)

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Jedi has tons of music from Star Wars. who cares if it were from the movies original tracks or whether its just recycled rerecording. It is still not original music.

[Morn 8]

But because it's a re-recording, it's not exactly the same and worth listening to and having even though it's not original. It is far far better than reusing a recording.

[Justin 2]

I'd have to agree with Morn here. There is a HUGE difrence between The Sail Barge Assault and The Areana scenes.

Yup yup.

Justin

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Not to me, not when I am watching Jedi and the music is from Tie Fighter Attack in Star Wars, there really is no difference.

[Morn 8]

Well, I for one love having a different version of it.

[Trumpeteer 302]

Hello everyone, and allow this response to be my first post:

In regard to the Sail Barge Assault in Return of the Jedi, I believe that instance is very admirable compared to what was done to the final battle in Attack of the Clones.

If you have the 1997 release or the 1994 box set, you can hear the original cue that Williams wrote for the scene. I have heard that Lucas wanted something more energetic, a way to show that the Rebels were back in full force. So Williams did actually re-score the scene, using themes and melodies from Star Wars. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Now, Williams did write a cue for the Arena Battle and what follows (it's on your AOTC CD). If Lucas didn't like it, he could have asked Williams to re-score this as well. But I have heard Williams was busy with Minority Report and didn't have time. So Lucas used music from Phantom Menace, music that previously scored a battle that had maybe a little relation to what was going on in AOTC. But that doesn't excuse its use in AOTC. If Lucas had used music composed and performed for AOTC for that final battle, it might have been more acceptable.

Similarily, if Lucas had just cut and paste music from Star Wars (music recorded in 1977) in the Sail Barge Assault, I think we all would be up in arms.

Jeff -- who is excited to be a part of the board.

[tpigeon 3]

what upsets me more than this cut-and-paste job in the final battle is the complete absence of music in the execution scene. i mean, no one knows for sure what the deal is with everything after that. there has been no confirmation whether the score was rejected by Lucas or whether Williams never composed anything for the battle (for whatever reason). the point is, no one knows why that is.

what bothers me is that i KNOW, from listening to the AOTC album, that Lucas really messed things up by taking the music almost completely out of the execution scene. firstly, it's great music. secondly, it fits perfectly into the scene and would have really complimented it immensely. i didn't think so at first, but then, after having seen the film six times, i started to realize that it would have worked to perfection.

that's what really upsets me, more than this editing in the final battle.

Ted - who thinks that the asteroid sequence didn't feel completely right and needed music also

[ChrisAfonso 186]

Ted - who thinks that the asteroid sequence didn't feel completely right and needed music also

That would perhaps have diminished the cool effect of the seismic bombs, I think...

As for the question "Did Williams compose anythin for the final battle", I believe this has been settled already (hasn't it?), since McCallum said there was 125minutes of music recorded, and Takis' analysis showing that ~124min. of new music are in the film. Correct me if I'm wrong.

-Chris

[tpigeon 3]

there have been facts flying around from all kinds of people. i have no reason to trust Rick McCallum. Until I hear something from Lucas or Williams about it, then it will always remain in question.

and about the asteroid belt scene, i've come to the conclusion that these new Star Wars films are not only visual effects happy, but sound effects happy. i do NOT like Ben Burtt at all! Everything with this guy is overkill. Personally, I like Spielberg's sound designer, Gary Rydstrom, who knows just the right ammount of sound effects.

the music in these new SW films is suffering, because of the sound. it's one thing to have good sound, but in my opinion, AOTC and PM were both over the top in that arena and the music was down substantially in volume, all because they wanted to show off some neato sound effects and see how loud they could possibly make a bomb detonation sound.

Ted

[Wickenstein 0]

Yeah, I booed Ben Burt's name when it appeared in the credits today. His sound effects are too busy and the fact that he's an editor doesn't help much. He's probably in part responsible for all the zany music editting.

Anyone who says that the music editting in AOTC is even comparable to ROTJ or even ESB is out of their mind. The rebel fanfare in the Death Star chase makes a hell of a lot more sense than the clutter in AOTC. In fact 9 times out of 10 a person who hears Tie Fighters Attack will think it's from the Death Star chase. I even agree to the editting of ESB's snowspeeder search. The music works incredibely well there. Before the SE's came out, I always assumed that Williams just used that motif there instead of what's on the SE's.

I just got back from my third showing of AOTC. The music editting is just senseless. It starts and stops during the clone wars battle all the time. We see Yoda, the music disapears. The music needs to be the drive during this scene. They could have at least chosen a piece of music from ANY of the starwars movies that was long enough for some continuity. While I liked the movie, the editting is so shoddy it's unprofessional. TPM and AOTC just won't be finished movies in my eyes until something is done about it. A few edits here and there aren't that terrible, but my God you can't go 15 minutes anywhere in that movie without hearing some kind of musical editting. A far cry from the last movie I saw, Sum of All Fears, where the music is untouched to my ears, but it's a driving force behind the movie. That's my view on the subject.

NP: Ghostbusters Score (Elmer Bernstein)

[UCFKevin 0]

Dammit, why can't people seek out and learn about the facts before shooting their mouth off about something they don't understand?

How many times does this have to be explained?

AOTC has music from TPM. Not a variation, not a recycled cue. THE MUSIC FROM TPM ITSELF.

The other movies contain VARIATIONS of the music from the previous movies.

VARIATIONS.

AOTC = EXACT TPM MUSIC.

EVERYTHING ELSE = VARIATIONS OF OTHER SW MUSIC.

EXACT.

VARIATION.

EXACT.

VARIATION.

TASTES GREAT.

LESS FILLING.

Oh wait...

[King Mark 3,626]

intreseting thread.I saw the film twice in THX and had trouble hearing the music.My last viewing was in "mere" DTS with the volume cranked up and most of the music was quite loud and more present than in THX.Maybe THX makes the sound mix sound different...

I agree with Chris Afonso,producer Mc callum said there was officially 125 min of new music composed for the film and Takis's theral analisis shows just that.The TPM music was tracked because Williams probably didn't write anything for CGI scenes that probaby barely existed when he composed the score.

k.m.

[Morn 8]

I even agree to the editting of ESB's snowspeeder search. The music works incredibely well there.

But it doesn't belong there, consider how much I like and know the score, any editing of it is greatly annoying to me.

[David Vincent 8]

Hey guys !

Just listen to Return of the Jedi Battle of Endor III and compare it to Phantom Menace Ultimate Edition Great Battle and you will understand where is the difference.

[Ross 1]

But because it's a re-recording, it's not exactly the same and worth listening to and having even though it's not original. It is far far better than reusing a recording.

Here's the difference. I don't care for arrangements. , I just want a musical way to express the situation seen on screen. And quite frankly, Tie Fighter Attack and Sail Barge Assault aren't the same situation.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see the difference between ROTJ and AOTC. I relate a cue to a scene, so when that same cue appears in a different film, I'm still thinking of the scene and comparing, and it just bothers me as much.

-ROSS, not seeing the difference

[Saxman717 22]

I'm sorry, but I just don't see the difference between ROTJ and AOTC. I relate a cue to a scene, so when that same cue appears in a different film, I'm still thinking of the scene and comparing, and it just bothers me as much.

-ROSS, not seeing the difference

Hmmm, even if you don't like both types of edits, it is NOT the same situation, 'cause like USFKevin eloquently stated above: "EXACT VARIATION TASTE GREAT LESS FILLING" :-) What about in Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom near the end where Indy goes for his gun to shoot down two threatening guards with swords? The music cleverly journeys back to Raiders of the Lost Ark and we hear a snippet of the Market Chase scene....brilliant! And fitting in the Tie Fighter Attack cue at least was SOMEWHAT accurate, 'cause in both the Tie Fighter Attack and the Sail Barge Assault, Han Luke and Leia all were working together as a team to escape a dangerous situation. Compare that to AOTC, when Yoda's theme is spliced in at the most obscene moments, even when Yoda is no where to be found, when Anakin is swinging his lightsaber on the conveyor belt. To me, it seems like the AOTC editors had absolutely no idea what they were doing and especially had no background knowledge concerning the old themes of the Star Wars series and how they are used properly. That's my take on it all.

[The Prick vs The DD 0]

Ted - who thinks that the asteroid sequence didn't feel completely right and needed music also

That would perhaps have diminished the cool effect of the seismic bombs, I think...

-Chris

Not necessarily. Though the music present on the CD for the asteroid flight wouldn't do the trick, Williams could have composed some music for the scene where there will be a few 'pro climatic' gaps so we can all hear the 'splendor' of the seismic bombs. As a matter of fact, it would even have strengthened this seismic scene.

I think that's the way they should have dealt with it.

[tpigeon 3]

i read somewhere that Lucas never wanted it scored to begin with, so nothing was ever written, with the exception of that 50 second sequence at the end.

[Ross 1]

What about in Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom near the end where Indy goes for his gun to shoot down two threatening guards with swords?  The music cleverly journeys back to Raiders of the Lost Ark and we hear a snippet of the Market Chase scene....brilliant!  And fitting in the Tie Fighter Attack cue at least was SOMEWHAT accurate, 'cause in both the Tie Fighter Attack and the Sail Barge Assault, Han Luke and Leia all were working together as a team to escape a dangerous situation.  Compare that to AOTC, when Yoda's theme is spliced in at the most obscene moments, even when Yoda is no where to be found, when Anakin is swinging his lightsaber on the conveyor belt.  To me, it seems like the AOTC editors had absolutely no idea what they were doing and especially had no background knowledge concerning the old themes of the Star Wars series and how they are used properly.  That's my take on it all.

The TOD instance is a totally different situation, I believe. There, Williams quotes the theme, just like Yoda's theme in E.T., he doesn't use similar orchestration and tempo. And, yes I agree that is a touch of genius.

About Yoda's theme, you're right. Maybe I should have said that I was strictly talking about the Arena Scene, I'm talking about music from another movie, not for another moment of the same movie (although I know some people will argue with me that the Star Wars saga is a movie as a whole and shouldn't be regarded as different films, but it does make a difference). However, Yoda's theme isn't totally out of place. It sound good musically, maybe not thematically, but there are other examples, like Leia's theme during Obi-Wan's death. (Okay so that, unlike AOTC, was intended but you get the point).

Tie Figher Attack = Sail Barge Assault :?: I see your point but we can find similarities between anything if we try that hard.

-ROSS

[ocelot 508]

OK, this is my own opinion and I'm sorry if I offend anyone in advance, but whoever thinks that the Edits in AOTC are OK, or comparable to any other edits EVEN TPM has got to be completely out of their minds and needs their ears checked. It would have been one thing if they had used let's say the droid battle or duel but we have little 30 second snippets of 4 different cues, not only is it jarring to have a cue that you know is from somewhere else, but I mean COME ON!!! We have cues that don't even flow into each other bouncing in every few seconds or minutes... It's so jarring it's like a HUGE MESS OF IDIOTIC SOUND!!!!! The rhythms don't match, the keys don't match, the feel changes all the time... It's STUPID!!! It doesn't work for the film and it doesn't work musically either. :evil:

[ocelot 508]

Yoda's theme did not work at all in the conveyor belt scene. Not one bit. Sorry

[Guest]

i do NOT like Ben Burtt at all! Everything with this guy is overkill.

OK so you know he has done the sound design for all the Star Wars films right? Even the classic trilogy?

Oh and Yoda's theme on the conveyor belt? works fine for me... I like it there even if it IS an edit from later in the film. No different than Yoda's theme during the escape from Bespin in Empire to me.

[Morn 8]

I agree with what ocelot said and the way he said it!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I agree with Morn, agreeing with Ocelot.

Ross, with all due respect, if you think Tie Fighter Attack from Star Wars and Sail Barge Assault from Return Of The Jedi are the same, you need to get your ears checked.

Stefancos- who thought the use of Yoda's theme in the conveyor belt scene was annoying, since it spoiled the surprise of Yoda's big scene in the end of the film.

[Ross 1]

Ross, with all due respect, if you think Tie Fighter Attack from Star Wars and Sail Barge Assault from Return Of The Jedi are the same, you need to get your ears checked.

With all due respect? Ok, who are you and what have you done with Stefancos

I want to point out: I DON'T think the cuts in AOTC are even acceptable. I only say that they are AS bad and the inclussion of Tie Fighter Attack in ROTJ. So I think everyone overreacted when they heard the music in there.

Come on, since when have the Star Wars scores been treated nicely? Just watch ESB. Most of the music in the SE album doesn't appear in the film (and pretty good music that is!), or is replaced with music from other moments of the film. We should have expected a hack job with the editing in the new trilogy.

I don't know about you but I DO expect some poor treatment to the score in Ep. III. I'm not happy about it, but there's nothing we can do to prevent it. :confused:

-ROSS, who, whether for good or for bad, doesn't find any post in this thread offensive. Like Frasier said in a Cheers episode: "Will you cut me some slack? I've never had any former musical training!" :oops:

[Morn 8]

But the tie fighter Sail Barge Assault version is better than the alternate! And it's a re-recording, it is different to the ANH version. AOTC is way way worse than what was done with the original trilogy. Read ocelot's post to see why.

[Guest macrea]

Just addressing editing and not the quality of the music (a separate issue), the trend over the past 25 years does not look good....

ANH - Part of Trash compactor cue and compactor monster cue recorded but not used. One cue re-done. Rest of the score intact with a couple of minor nips and tucks.

TESB - Major sections of recorded score not used. Opening sequence redone. Cue written for the climactic chase ("Hyperspace") used at the very beginning of the film. Variations on the Imperial march replaced with sections of the concert suite.

ROTJ - Wall-to-wall scoring done in a big hurry. Major action cue scrapped and completely re-done in such a hurry that composer had to use existing arrangements from ANH concert suites. Sequence then re-edited drastically creating a mess of music edtis. "Here They Come" concert suite used for part of final battle sequence. Several re-edits requiring re-scoring of bits and pieces throughout film. A few sections of TESB music used here and there. Several small tracked or looped sections, but climactic battle sequence basically assembled as written.

SE's - Poorly re-edited end titles for all. ANH: Added sequence using ROTJ music; TESB: Jarring music edits for unnecessary added scene. Previous Imperial march edits reverted to original composition. ROTJ: Finale completely changed to new cue. Bad source song swapped for a worse one.

TPM - Major post-scoring re-editing of picture necessitates major cut and paste job of tracking, repeating, looping, etc. Re-editing of climactic sequence completely annihilates original music intentions, further destroyed by overuse of a concert arrangement of DOTF. Music written for pod race dropped and used for land battle. Music for spaceship escape reused instead. Space battle music largely unused, etc.

AOTC - Existing Main Title recording reused. Several long sections of TPM music used throughout score, and some sections of AOTC score repeated. Entire climactic battle sequence completely scored with TPM music, a hodge-podge of cues originally written for: Jedis fighting droids on Trade Federation ship, underwater encounter with giant fish, Jedis rescuing queen, pod race, space battle, etc., and senselessly edited to boot.

One could only hope that the trend continues in this way...

EPIII - Composer tells Director: "I've already recorded 10 hours of music for you. Surely you can piece together a two hour score for your last picture." :cry:

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Good post, but one mistake.

A few sections of TESB music used here and there

Music from TESB was only used during the Falcon's aproach of the Death Stars main reactor near the end of the film, that fragment of music is precisely 20 seconds long.

Stefancos- who deliberatly timed this.

[Tim Muirheid 0]

i do NOT like Ben Burtt at all! Everything with this guy is overkill. Personally, I like Spielberg's sound designer, Gary Rydstrom, who knows just the right ammount of sound effects.  

the music in these new SW films is suffering, because of the sound. it's one thing to have good sound, but in my opinion, AOTC and PM were both over the top in that arena and the music was down substantially in volume, all because they wanted to show off some neato sound effects and see how loud they could possibly make a bomb detonation sound.

Ted

Actually when you look up the crew credits for TPM and AOTC you find:

"Re-Recording Mixers Gary Rydstrom" et al.

He is part of that Lucasfilm/THX sound mafia that works with lots of high profile projects.

Your point about the sound efx:score mix is well taken, however. I was amazed at how loud AOTC was in both my viewings (a conventional big screen and a DLP showing). As I waited to see the DLP presentation I could clearly hear, through the yacking and chattering of the audience, the rumblings from the underway AOTC showing in the next theater.

If this is going to be the case then I would suggest William/Lucas come to an arrangement whereby the number of minutes devoted to score is reduced to something along the lines of the original Star Wars (about 88 minutes). This may sound heretical on this Board but it eliminates the retracking of overused/unused music not intended for this specific sequence.

Bottom line - composer and director agree on where there should be music, what is should be and stick with it. If in doubt go with less music rather than director play virtual composer.

TIM (reading Tyson v. Lewis updates from ESPN.com as he types)

[King Mark 3,626]

TESB - Variations on the Imperial march replaced with sections of the concert suite.

:

Yeah,I just LOVE the original cue of the Imperial March Williams wrote intended to be used when we first see the Imperial fleet.(Aboard the Executor,on the esb S.E. s.d. set).Easily THE most bombastic and ear shattering segment of music Williams ever wrote.

K.M.

[Guest macrea]

Picking nits is not the point of discussing the overall trend of things, but in the interest of accuracy... in addition to the music as the Falcon approaches the main reactor in ROTJ, the entire first part of the Luke/Leia conversation at the Ewok village is from ESB's "Yoda and the Force." Plus, the section of that cue which precedes it was also itself repeated within ESB when we first see the rebel fleet at the end of the film. Music from ESB is also used when Yoda first appears on screen in ROTJ. Compare it to the SE album, which starts with Luke's theme. The section used in the film is from the mostly-unused cue in ESB when Luke first encounters Yoda, which also happened to have been cut out of older versions of the album and not restored until the SE releases.

[ocelot 508]

OK Ross,

I understand that you didn't like the music used in sail barge, but what I think we are saying, or at least I am saying is that it was a complete cue, one complete piece of music. In AOTC it was chopped up little pieces of music from 4 different cues. None of it flowed. That is the difference. It was jarring to say the least. You are completely in your right not to like the use of the tie fighter cue, but at least it worked in itself as one piece of music. That is what I was so insulted by in AOTC. Does this make any sense?... see my above post....

[Guest macrea]

There are two distinct problems with the sail barge music: 1), it consisted mostly of pre-existing composition (not recordings) from STAR WARS and that score's concert arrangements. (Obviously it was rushed since it was recorded at the album sessions and another version had already been rejected.) and 2), the cue contained so many edits that it made an already silly scene into a jumbled, confusing, cheap-looking mess. While these are both undeniable problems, it's still not as insulting as using 20 minutes of TPM music, various parts but same recordings, cut to shreds and scored to the climactic battle of AOTC.

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

Well, about AOC and the Asteroid chase:

Is bounty hunter's hot pursuit used anywhere in the movie? Are you sure it was intended for that? It is obi-wan who is pursuing, not jango, and the pursuit of jango lasts 1 minute or less...

It does not have great sound bursts that would match will the seismic bombs, and the last two minutes sound like hiding music

But i don't have idea, so tell me

[Jay 37,322]

Luke, 0:00 - 1:28 of the track labled "Bounty Hunter Pursuit" is the actual music for the asteroid chase (the cd omits 2 small sections of music) - it begins in the movie when Slave I's side-rocket panels open.

1:28-end of the track is the music for earlier in the movie, covering Obi-Wans tour of the cloning facility on Kamino, ending with him looking out at the Clone Troopers (as the trade federation theme plays).

-Jason

The River (4 or 5 listens and has yet to grow on me...)

[Chris ChrusherComix 46]

The whole point of the matter is:

Did Williams compose the music for the scene or not?

I like the unused alternates and I also like the rerecorded versions that quote past themes. The two Binary Sunsets are great. The two Sail Barge Assaults are great. I like the original concepts as well as the suggested re-recordings.

But I DO NOT like the cut and paste jobs where they take music and themes recorded for an entirely different scene and placing them where they obviously don't belong and where Williams didn't intend to use them. They ruin the experience of the film for me.

Idea: With a little creative editing, and if the editor KNOWS what themes and motifs belong to which situations and to whom, the cut & paste jobs CAN BE DONE RIGHT. But in TPM and AOTC, they got it wrong more than they got it right. WAY more.

For example. The could have reversed the scenes for Anakin crashing and when Amidala and her troops were caught. The music would have worked that way, because Anakin's theme flourishes at the end of one and not the other. It may not be what Williams composed, but it would have worked FAR better than what appeared on screen. Again, this comes from their inability to recognize Williams musical statelents, which comes from a lack of respect and understanding for Williams music by the editors. Put almost any of us here in charge of the music editing and I'll guarantee that Williams would be more satisfied than what happened on the screen. (We still haven't heard what he thought about AotC yet, have we?).

-Chris, Who absolutely hated how Lucas mangled the beautiful use of DotF with the TPM edit... Ugh! It was composed PERFECTLY on the CD! Just use that and spend more time getting the end battles right, you freakin' meddlesome incompetent dolts! :evil:

[ocelot 508]

Exactly what Chris said!!!!!

And I too would like to know what Williams thought of AOTC!

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

I would like that for 2006 George makes superb special editions (complete and UNTOUCHABLE) of ALL movies, and hire John to RESCORE* all 6 of them paying him the same if he were doing 6 new movies. THAT could be cool.

* i mean redoing the old movies with the new cues (but still using the composed music) and retape it to have better sound.

[Chris ChrusherComix 46]

I would like that for 2006 George makes superb special editions (complete and UNTOUCHABLE) of ALL movies, and hire John to RESCORE* all 6 of them paying him the same if he were doing 6 new movies. THAT could be cool.

* i mean redoing the old movies with the new cues (but still using the composed music) and retape it to have better sound.

Great point. AND to score THE FINAL UNTOUCHABLE VERSIONS! Never to be altered again. That would give Williams the chance to finally do it right.

That would be very cool. But would Williams have the time? The old guy is so ambitious that he seemingly has projects booked years in advance!

However, it seems to me like Lucas doesn't care enough... but we shall see....

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

AND to score THE FINAL UNTOUCHABLE VERSIONS! Never to be altered again.  

that is what i was saying...

Lets hope...

Has john any work in 2006? If not, Lucas should hire him NOW. If i were johnny, i'll accept, since he could be payed AGAIN for all six movies, and well Lucas does not have lack of money

[Ross 1]

OK Ross,

I understand that you didn't like the music used in sail barge, but what I think we are saying, or at least I am saying is that it was a complete cue, one complete piece of music.  In AOTC it was chopped up little pieces of music from 4 different cues.  None of it flowed.  That is the difference.  It was jarring to say the least.  You are completely in your right not to like the use of the tie fighter cue, but at least it worked in itself as one piece of music.  That is what I was so insulted by in AOTC.  Does this make any sense?... see my above post....

Yes, it does make sense, ocelot, and I see your point.

But I still don't get it. Does it mean that you guys would be contented if that SAME TPM music was used in AOTC but in a re-recorded version? I wouldn't think so.

-ROSS, who sees the difference

[Miz 139]

More contented.

[Chris ChrusherComix 46]

But I still don't get it. Does it mean that you guys would be contented if that SAME TPM music was used in AOTC but in a re-recorded version? I wouldn't think so.

-ROSS, who sees the difference

Hmmm... If Williams re-recorded it, it may or may not be better than the original intended version (that would be up to the listener's personal taste), but Williams would have never agreed to what happened to his music. It was a sloppy mess that makes no musical sense. And I am not educated in music in any way. Just by ear... it's just horrid. Little snippets from TPM and edited with no sense whatsoever. Basically, like filler material. And poorly selected filler at that. I imagine, that if Williams had the final edit and some time, he could have pulled of a great piece of music. But I would be willing to bet alot of moolah on the fact that when Williams saw the final cut of AOTC for the 1st time, he was probably somewhat offended and deeply, DEEPLY embarassed. It makes him look bad, and probably hurts.

If we were to hear it stripped of all sound effects, it would be so bad that it would make The Ultimate Edition's edits look like a masterpiece. They are, unfortunately, that bad...

To be honest, we have come down hard on the UE's edits, but those were at least tolerable in the film. It's on a professionally edited music CD stripped of all sound effects where it sounds bad. And as bad as it sounded, AOTC's end battles take the cake and flushed it down the toilet. :cry:

-Chris, Who finds those horrible music edits and the weak dialogue between Anakin & Padme the only real faults in AOTC... I very much enjoyed everything else....

[Guest]

I agree that the score in AOTC was really f***ed up. The original music that's actually there is really good and sets the right mood, but what a horrendous debacle the end was. I loved AOTC, but I know William's music well and as I sat through the end of the film I was asking myself :what the hell did they do? They should have used all of track 12 for the arena only and had an entire battle sequence score for the end like in ANH or ROTJ. There was a serious lack of William's most important tool in Star Wars :leit motif (themes and cues applied to certain characters and events). And where was Duel of the Fates ?Did it even show up more than once? Those people need to let Williams do his job and make sure he has time to do everything. I was disappointed...

[TownerFan 4,983]

i read somewhere that Lucas never wanted it scored to begin with, so nothing was ever written, with the exception of that 50 second sequence at the end.

Where did you read that?

Mm, I never thinked about it that way... but it could be. Maybe Lucas wanted to give to the big battle a sort of "SAVING PRIVATE RYAN-esque" feel, thinking that putting music would have rendered the scenes too much "heroic" for the nature of the movie. But in the end, he noticed that maybe it was too hard and the scenes didn't worked without music. Probably he noticed it too late in the game, so John Williams didn't have the time to write and record properly composed music for those scenes. So, he and Lucas agreed to re-use music form the previous film, also because there's NO battle music in AOTC... the "Chase Through Coruscant", "Bounty Hunter Pursuit" and "Jango's Escape" cues wouldn't have worked in the battle scenes and considering that there aren't other action cues the only thing to do was to re-track battle music from Ep1, which is stylistically similar to AOTC. Putting music from the Classic Trilogy would have been too much distracting, I think.

This is pure speculation, of course...

Lord Maurizio

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[Morn 8]

Maybe it also has something to do with the fact that Williams only had about 6 weeks to score the film. 6 weeks is a very short time for a 2 hour score, it means that Williams would have to score 3 minutes worth a day.