StrongBad992648 0 Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 Hello all, I was very pleased with the results of the last competition we had. It got a very good discussion going about composition tools and methods. I know some have voiced to me that with the enormous gap of technology between composers, it may be difficult to convey a musical message. I'll just say that I think I'm on the way to straightening this out. All composers interested, please post here, and then I will post the new "topic"...just so you know ahead of time, there will be no time limit on this new one, and you will have two weeks instead of one to complete it. I am REALLY looking foward to the new topic if we can do it. Thanks, and please post away!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicpete 1 Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 Hi!Well, the first time round I decided to stay out of the competition and observe the whole thing. Next time I think I'd give it a shot.But maybe you should be more precise in the description of what you want the music to be like. Should it be more descriptive (even mickey-mousing imaginary action), should it be pure underscore (bing as unnoticeable as possible), ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossMan 1 Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 Yeah, I think I'll give it a whirl. I, like "musicpete", do need a bit more to go on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrongBad992648 0 Posted July 12, 2003 Author Share Posted July 12, 2003 Yes, last time there was not a lot of description. The new topic I will post should not be a problem though. Thanks guys, and I look foward to your entries...we just have to wait for a few more people to sign up, and then I'll post it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 Yeah, I think it'd be cool to have another competition. I really enjoyed the first one. I won't be contributing myself, for the simple reason that I can't compose anything. But I look forward to hearing more work from my fellow JWFan members. - Marc The Egg Travels from Dinosaur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanED 1 Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 I echo Mr. Breathmask... I'd definitely like to hear more music from people. I may even try to do something myself, but certainly don't count on it, partially because I'll be gone next week but mostly because I can't really compose. :-p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hale-Bopp 0 Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 Can you link me up to the last competition thread so I can check it out?If I decide to participate what else do I need to know before I prepare to compose?thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanED 1 Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 http://www.jwfan.net/index.php?name=phpBB2...ght=competition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossMan 1 Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 Yikes, those MP3s have really nice sound to them. None of my equipment can produce orchestral sounds like that. Hell, I'm using an old Roland SC-33 Sound Canvas and a SB Audigy 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrongBad992648 0 Posted July 13, 2003 Author Share Posted July 13, 2003 Well the good thing about this competition, is in the end, technology doesn't matter...it's content. But this comes into play especially with the new topic coming up.Basically all you have to know is I give you a topic, and a time limit and due date, and you go to town...composing as you wish, with whatever instruments you want. Then you will E-Mail me the file once done in MIDI or MP3 or even WAV format. I will then post it on the site, and have a poll over who's is the best. That's basically it in a nutshell. Please, if you are going to compose something post here so I know we have more than just 2 people doing the competition! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesis 244 Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 If it is a good topic, I'm on it.Nemesis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovereign 0 Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 Well the good thing about this competition, is in the end, technology doesn't matter...it's content. But this comes into play especially with the new topic coming up.How are you going to solve that problem? A straight midi file is going to stand in shrill contrast to a composition rendered with the latest technology, regardless of what you have in mind IMO. No surprise really that Simon won the last time. Anyway, I might go along with the competition, depends on if I like the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon R. 10 Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 I would be interested. Not sure I have the time at the moment though, but if I do, I'm in again.Oh and btw - no amount of samples will compose your stuff for you - not even make it sound good. You might be surprised, but you can make lots of horrible sounding stuff with the "latest technology":) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrongBad992648 0 Posted July 14, 2003 Author Share Posted July 14, 2003 Exactly Simon. I agree. It's all about content in the end. You can write Beethoven's second on MIDI and Twinkle Twinkle lilttle Star on a Gigastudio, and there will be a difference, and people will connect musically with Beethoven more...unless of course it's mozart's variations on twinkle...but that's a whole other story! You will be surprised with what you can write, no matter what platform you do it on. Just try! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicpete 1 Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Hmmm, how about letting people submit MIDI's and .mp3's but publiushing only the MIDI's? After the votes are closed, you may offer links to the mp3's so people may compare how the stuff can sound if the composer is rich enough.Doesn't seem difficult to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Limit it to plain midi, so that it may be fair. It does make a different to how much people enjoy it, regardless of what you say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovereign 0 Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Limit it to plain midi, so that it may be fair. It does make a different to how much people enjoy it, regardless of what you say.Well, that would pretty much suck. It may work for simple setups, but when you are using a library with tons of articulations not to mention midi timing which fits only that particular library (anyone who loads a midi piece done on library A and plays it on library B knows what I'm talking about) is going to make it a monumentous task to create a listenable midi file. Not to mention that Simon wouldn't be able to use his cluster horns/bones anymore, they translate rather poorly to midi. But yes, a midi "bleep" piece going up against one done with an orchestral libary which sounds real is obviously going to make a difference in how people perceive a composition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saxman717 22 Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Yeah I'd love to try again if I have the time (and if the topic clicks). But yeah, I sorta agree regarding the midi format. Midi is the standard, basic way that one creates music on the computer. Regulating the competition so that all the participants conform to this format will "even the playing field" and make it a completely fair competition in all respects. There were so many little nuances in my 1st piece (trills, articulations, glissandos, crescendos etc.) that midi can't replicate, but another format potentially could. If the format is limited to midi, then everyone has the same restrictions. After the competition is over, then perhaps people who have the advanced technology can submit more advanced formats of their works.Just a suggestion Oh and 1 other thing..........in terms of composing to the topic. Last time, I composed more of a metaphorical interpretation. It was not meant to really score the background to a scene, but was meant to paint the picture of the scene itself, with certain instruments and rhythems representing different players/events in the scene. We should know whether we should score the background music to a scene or whether we should write music that sort of musically interprets the topic.Look forward to hearing your topic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossMan 1 Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 I wholeheartedly agree that all submissions should be in MIDI format (and that also seems to be the dominant feeling of the thread so far). But what about an actual score to accompany the MIDI work? I don't know about others, but I write in Finale. Sure, I can save the work as a MIDI file, then port it into a sequencer to get all the nuances I intended into the final audible work, but there's something to be said about looking at an actual black & white written score. Any thoughts?Also, back to the whole MIDI vs. high-tech stuff, what if the winner got his simple MIDI work reproduced using the higher end tech treatment? That would be awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,326 Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 The problem mentioned in this thread could easily be solved by keeping a competition solely for piano compositions. No tricks, no multi thousand Euro/Dollar/Pound setups against an old portable Casio. A midi file of piano music can be translated without effort if the piano stinks. Maybe one person should do all the translations on the same piano. Then all is fair!!!----------------Alex Cremers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrongBad992648 0 Posted July 14, 2003 Author Share Posted July 14, 2003 Ok...well...first of all...if we DID limit this to only MIDI, how many composers would not be able to participate, and how many would? Just respond and say "I'm in" or "I'm out". Also, in terms of doing a tone poem, or background music, the choice is yours, but we would probably want to aim towards something done in movies because of the nature of this site. But again, this next topic really doesn't apply to that.Finally, regarding the black and white score...I really don't want to clog up Ricard's site space any more than it has to be clogged up. But if the board really feels strongly about this, I will supply a seperate site which we would link to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saxman717 22 Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Confining the music to strictly piano would be an interesting way of doing it, tho I do think that we can still have a fair "competition" by just keeping the file format to midi. I know that I personally like writing out whole 20-30 part orchestra scores when I compose There's just something cool about breaking the parts up between the woodwinds, brass, orchestra and percussion that you just can't replicate with solely a piano part.Score posting is also a cool idea and something I mentioned during the first competiton I think people tended to shoot down that idea :oops: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,326 Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Finally, regarding the black and white score...I really don't want to clog up Ricard's site space any more than it has to be clogged up. But if the board really feels strongly about this, I will supply a seperate site which we would link toYou/we need the space anyhow if MP3 is the format of choice.----------------Alex Cremers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrongBad992648 0 Posted July 14, 2003 Author Share Posted July 14, 2003 Ok...I've come up with an idea, and I hope we will just go with this, and it will eliminate most problems. Instead of turning in a MIDI or MP3 of your work, submit a score to me. It either has to be FINALE or OVERTURE, or in Adobe Acrobat format. even if you take PICTURES of the score. Send the score to me, and I will make a MIDI of it for you. I am very good with MIDIs. Just make sure that you are very descriptive in the score so I know exactly what you want. Is this more work for me? Yes...but I really like programing MIDIS anyways. This way, the pieces will be on an even more level playing field, because they will have been set to MIDI by one person. And I have tricks for doing crescendos, glissandos, and all of that good stuff with my MIDI. Tell me if you like this idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanED 1 Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 What? StrongBad, I didn't know you were into masochism... j/kI have an alterntate suggestion that may make it easier for all. Don't submit MIDIs, but rather submit either MIDI, Finale, or Sibelous file. The first is easily taken care of, while the second and third have free plug-ins available online. That'll give you anything you can do in the respective programs, played through a MIDI interface, and as a bonus you get the actual black-and-white score. (And of course if there are more than the two programs I mentioned that have plug-ins, then they should be legal too.) I would also reccomend submitting scores that would be played throung a plug-in in MIDI as well in case someone can not/will not download the plug-in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Yes, I was thinking similar EvanED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon R. 10 Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 I would definitely NOT participate if I had to submit a MIDI. First, it would be a 100+ channel MIDI file that nobody could play, or I would have to restrict myself to General MIDI - and that I wouldn't do. Second, I don't share my MIDI files.As for the other suggestions. I wouldn't submit a score either. Way too much work, changing a MIDI sequence into a proper score. Piano only.. not sure that would be too interesting either - depends on the scene of course. Either way, I'm sure you'll manage without me:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanED 1 Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 OK, then I'll give an alternate suggestion. Allow MP3s, but not with really fancy patches. Perhaps Strongbad could take MIDIs (Finale, Overture...) and make MP3s himself on his equipment and act as a judge about quality of samples if someone wanted to use thier equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,326 Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 You can discuss all night , things are only getting more complicated, my piano proposition solves all major problems. ----------------Alex Cremers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrongBad992648 0 Posted July 14, 2003 Author Share Posted July 14, 2003 Well, first off, I don't have equipment to turn MIDI into MP3. I'm really at a loss as to what to do, because either way, not everybody will be happy. I really think that it should be turning in a score if we are going to make things difficult and not allow MP3. Honestly, perhaps we should just allow MP3 as well. Even if it's not as much competition, I mean, we still get to hear our boardmates' work, and that's the reason I designed the competition in the first place.I'm going to post the topic now. Look right under this post for it. I'm going to accept MP3 and MIDI, and for those of you who want, turn in a score for me, and I will do my damndest to make a midi of your work that sounds almost live. It will have glisses and all of the ornaments you want. I hope you'll take part in it. All formats accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saxman717 22 Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Eeeehhhhhh, it kinda killed my motivation last time when I put a ton of effort into composing a 20+ part score in Finale, and then could only create a moderate-sounding midi file to "go up against" files that sound like real orchestras, created with multi-thousand dollar equipment.I like the idea of hearing the a "better version" of the scores after the competition, and using only midi files while the competiton is on.Simon, can you clarify why you can't create midi files for your compositions? If it's a composition for orchestra or something, you're going to typically have about 20-30 parts, and you just put the score into Finale or Sibelius or whatever and create the midi file. Sure, it won't sound as good and people could upload the score into a program to see your work, but it would make judging and comparing the pieces much, much easier and fairer.I like the idea of submitting a midi file, and then submitting a Finale or Sibelius file as well if you feel like it. That's cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saxman717 22 Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Again.....what about hearing higher-quality files, like mp3s etc. AFTER the real competition part? Little worried that the exact same thing as competioin 1 will happen.....motivation dwindling.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrongBad992648 0 Posted July 14, 2003 Author Share Posted July 14, 2003 On Monday, July 28th, please turn in a musical piece (any length you wish) based on the following topic:Write a THEME for any of the major superheroes listed below. This theme can be anything from a solo kazoo, to a full orchestra with chorus. Whatever your orchestration, the piece must embody a solid theme for the hero. Some examples of superhero themes are the themes to superman, batman, spiderman; by Williams, Elfman and Elfman. But, be careful not to write a piece for a superhero and have it sound like an already written theme (i.e. superman). You must send your work to the following E-Mail: Jnskymusic@aol.com. Be sure to indicate which hero you wrote a theme for. Soon after your work is submitted, it will be posted on the website.Here is the list of superheroes to choose from:SpidermanSupermanBatmanThe HulkWonder WomanSupergirlThe PunisherThe Fantastic 4The X-MenCatwomanAny questions? Feel free to Private Message me, or simply post on the board. Good luck, and I can't wait to hear the themes in 2 weeks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,326 Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Saxman, Simon never said he can't. They are just too complicated with lots of midi channels per instrument. Simon is very HI-TEC and he knows what he's doing.----------------Alex Cremers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossMan 1 Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Is there a time limit? I noticed that last year's submission were all approximately 1 minute in length. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrongBad992648 0 Posted July 14, 2003 Author Share Posted July 14, 2003 Any length you wish. Yes, the last entries were a minute in length, but go to town on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon R. 10 Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Saxman, Simon never said he can't. They are just too complicated with lots of midi channels per instrument. Simon is very HI-TEC and he knows what he's doing.----------------Alex CremersThanks Alex:) Saxman, imagine I have maybe 5 different MIDI ch's for 1st violin sustained notes - sometimes I layer several of these. Then add 1 track for tremolos, some for staccatos, some for sordinos, etc etc. Then multiply that by every instrument group in the orchestra and you get the picture. Just to give you an example, a MIDI-score of a full orchestral composition could look something like this for me:http://www.simonravn.com/media/SR-Logic-view.jpgTransfering that to a score would take a lot of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon R. 10 Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 BTW the compo topic is almost TOO open:) Deadline at 28th. I might not make it. Going on a vacation tommorow. But we'll see.BTW weren't all MIDI's+MP3's posted at the same time last time?? Of course that's how it should be done (and I also think that was how it was done - what am I missing)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge 0 Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Finally decided to join jwfan.net today when I saw this thread, I am definitely going to have a go at composing something. I just missed out on the last competition, but heard some of the compositions. There is definitely some good competition out there. I’ll give it my best shot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hale-Bopp 0 Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 ummm, so what file format did everyone/someone decide on for this contest? O_o(much confusion)EDIT: NM, I saw the Strongbad post up above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge 0 Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 There is a simple solution to the mp3 vs midi dilemma. Have two categories, one for mp3’s and the other for midi’s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus 0 Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 I guess I'll give it a shot, again hard to pick hero though :-/Also, I'm not perfectly clear about how to write the piece. Just a theme? Should it be as short as the Star Wars fanfare then? or is it something more like the Superman March?Magnus - confused Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrongBad992648 0 Posted July 15, 2003 Author Share Posted July 15, 2003 Your music can be ANY length you want it to be. Just make sure it portrays the character. Your theme can be complex, or not complex. It's up to you. Some of the best themes in history are very simple. Use your judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanticStrings 10 Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 I have a solution. Everyone submit their score to Keith Lockhart and have the Boston Pops record it, or to Sir Colin Davis with the LSO (it's still him, right?). That way, everyone has a perfect quality recording. ~Conor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hale-Bopp 0 Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 I'm gonna play my MIDI through Quicktime and then record it to an old casette tape recorder before running it back into my patchbay which runs into my soundcard which goes to my...Well, you get the idea.It's gonna rock!! (thumbs up) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossMan 1 Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 Aaarrgghh... I am probably gonna have to bow out of this one. I'm going in for surgery on Friday (18 Jul 03) and probably won't be up to sitting at the computer for a week or more. I'm having my ACL reconstructed and the miniscus repaired. Sorry about this.But hey, since this is all about folks being able to listen to others' music, you can still visit my web site! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leigh_Gulick 0 Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 I'm relatively new to composing. I've just messed around with my Finale program. I play the trumpet and so I have music background and I'm ready to try. Although I don't know anything about MIDI and mp3s so I would need help with that. Leigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSM 126 Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 I just started to write but I think two weeks is way too short to write a substantial theme for people who do have other things to do as well! Anyway, I'll see what I can do...MSM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge 0 Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 Did everyone manage to get their composition finished in time? When will the scores be posted for polling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saxman717 22 Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 Didn't compose for this one.......had too much to do working 40 hours a week and preparing for the GRE exam (I take it Monday! ) Then after that I have to prepare for the LSAT exam on October 4th! Then after that, I have to write all my grad school applications! 8O AAAAAHHHHHHHHHH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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