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    • Jay

      Donation time at JWFan   01/16/18

      Hello!

      For those who may not know, JWFan relies entirely on donations to keep running.  Donations pay for our server bills, as well as keeping our domain and Invision Powerboard fees.
      As an incentive to donate, I am offering a series of free CDS to anyone who donates over a certain amount!   Last time this was a modest success, where I raised $500 of our desired $1,000 and mailed out 3 free CDs to lucky JWFanners.  This time I'll be doing the raffling a littler different!   Our goal is $1000 once again, and I will have four tiers of free CDs you can win once again.  But this time, the more you donate, the more entries into each raffle you'll get!   Each $10 you donate gets your name put into the raffle mug once for the $10 pool, twice for the $20 pool, thrice for the $30 pool, and five times into the $50 pool.  Here is the list of CDs you can win - and I have more to add at a later time when I get a little more organized (I'll post what they are by Friday at the latest)   The $10 pool (Every $10 you donate gets you one ticket into this pool) - will be drawn as soon as we hit $250 donated Tyler Bates - God of War; Ascension (OST, La La Land Records) Danny Elfman - Planet of the Apes (OST, Sony) Danny Elfman - Taking Woodstock (OST, La La Land Records) Christopher Lennertz - Identity Thief (OST, La La Land Records) Christopher Lennertz - Medal of Honor: Rising Sun (OST) Michael Giacchino - Mission: Impossible - Ghost Protocol (OST, Varese Sarabande) Dave Holmes & Various - Ocean's 11 (OST, WB Records) Joel McNeely & Various - Hollywood '94 (Varese Sarabande) Joe Kraemer - Jack Reacher (OST, La La Land Records) John Williams - Born on the Fourth of July (OST, MCA Records)   The $20 pool (Every $10 you donate gets you two ticket into this pool, must donate at least $20 to be eligible) - will be drawn as soon as we hit $500 donated John Barry - First Love (La La Land) Jerry Goldsmith - The Challenge (La La Land) Jerry Goldsmith - In Harm's Way (2009 Intrada edition) Jerry Goldsmith - The Red Pony (Varese) Alan Silvestri - Dutch (La La Land) Shirley Walker - Willard (La La Land) John Williams - Family Plot (Varese Sarabande) or, any of the above CDs if you prefer   The $30 pool (Every $10 you donate gets you three ticket into this pool, must donate at least $30 to be eligible) - will be drawn as soon as we hit $750 donated James Horner - Gorky Park (OOP Kritzerland Edition) James Newton Howard - Outbreak (2CD, Varese Deluxe Edition) Laurence Rosenthal - Clash of the Titans (2CD, Intrada) John Williams - The Fury (2CD, La La Land) John Williams - Jane Eyre (OOP, La La Land) or, any of the above CDs if you prefer   The $50 pool (Every $10 you donate gets you five ticket into this pool, must donate at least $50 to be eligible) - will be drawn as soon as we hit $1,000 donated Jerry Fielding - The Wild Bunch (3CD, FSM) Ira Newborn - The Naked Gun trilogy (3CD, La La Land) Shirley Walker and Various - Batman: The Animated Series Volume 3 (4CD, La La Land) or, any of the above CDs if you prefer     All shipping will be paid by me to anywhere in the world!   I will pull names from a hat for each pool, and you get to pick whatever CD set you want if I pull your name!   To be eligible, leave your JWFan username in the comments area of your donation.  If you want to donate but not be in the running for a free CD, mention that in the comment.   Use this link or the link on the mainpage.       Thank you!   Jason, Ricard, and Andreas.
Alexcremers

Is the re-recorded Superman CD any good?

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I've heard it's a little slower than the original. You know it can't be good if it doesn't have the S-shield on front, either.

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If it's anything like how the Royal Scottish National Orchestra treated The Phantom Menace, then I'd say buy the cd, and then burn it! :music:

In the fanfares of The Flag Parade, there were blatant wrong notes, and one of the triplet lines rushes like mad, while later in the piece, the second time the triplet line is presented, it drags like crazy.

Then in Duel of the Fates, when the 5 note motif is first presented in the clarinets and violas I believe, there is BAD phasing in the orchestra. Even my college orchestra director wouldn't have let us get away with something like that, especially on a RECORDING!

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I heard it's very good. Read the Clemmenson's review- he says it's just as good as the rhino release.

Yes, many reviewers say it's very good. Though, there are Williams fans who wanna puke on it. Confusing.

I bought Superman The Ultimate Collection which I didn't listen to yet but most critics don't recommend it.

Here's an image:

B00000IKB8.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

I wich I had bought the John Debney one, but this one was really cheap too.

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Alex Cremers

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Bad choice, Alex. The "Ultimate" album resembles elevator music. The Debney version is excellent. I can't recommend it enough.

And TLiJ, the lack of an "S" on the cover simply means Varese didn't want to pay for the rights to include it. Probably would have cost as much to get that as it did to record the thing.

Neil

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I like the Varese recording a lot,for some cues i find it better than the Williams,like Helicopter Rescue.The sound quality pays off too.

K.M.Who likes the Jaws varese re-recording too

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At this moment I'm listening to Superman: The Ultimate Collection. It features many tracks from the Salkind Superman movies (they went as far as Superman III) but by the sound of it they didn't use a big orchestra. So in a way these are (large) chamber orchestra versions of grand and heroic Superman themes which is a contradicting concept, to say the least. Donald Johnston (?) did the orchestrations and Varèse Sarabande is the label (I think seeing there name made me buy it, damn). What I find strange is that the ensembled orchestra has good string players but the brass leaves somewhat to be desired and this for a ultimate Superman collection! Also on the program list is Goldsmith's Supergirl, again with a brass that just isn't convincing. What a weird CD! And who came up with the idea to record it with a small orchestra and especially to cut on the brass? Elevator music indeed.

Tomorrow I go and pick up the Debney version.

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Alex Cremers

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What tracks from Supergirl did they deam CD worthy?

Morlock- who doesn't like anything on the Supergirl CD, not even Stefan's much loved Main Titles.

:music: A Mighty Wind from A Mighty Wind OST

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I have Superman The Movie on LP, on Warner Brothers CD, on Rhino CD and I even got the elevator version but...

...right now I'm listening to Superman The Movie, John Debney with the Royal Scottish National Orchestra. My first impression is that the orchestra sounds like it has been recorded from a greater distance than what usually is the case with film music, especially film music recorded in the Seventies. The Jonathan Allen recording has a much more "hall" feel to it. Perhaps a little too much. But the dynamics are quite impressive. The photo on the last page of the booklet is once again that same "JW sitting with batton" picture, as if Varèse has only one photograph of the master. I must say that as the CD progresses I am not disgusted at all with Debney's take on Superman. I feel that the right emotions have been put at the right place and the climaxes are powerful as steel. I can imagine that if you were used to this version, another, even if it was the original, would come over as an imposter. If you can buy this cheap than do you must.

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Alex Cremers

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I just ordered this the other day and I'm glad you give it your vote, Alexcremers. I bought it out of the "completist" urge in me (only need some pre-Reivers recordings/re-recordings at this point!), but now I'm really looking forward to hearing it.

I finally got the Gerhardt Return of the Jedi last week to complete my Star Wars rerecordings collection and its great like the previous two. Would you say the Varese Superman is on any level to the Gerhardt (as far as rerecordings of Williams goes) or not in the same leagues?

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Oh, I'm with Neil, I can't recommend this enough.

It's not an exact replacement, but damn, it's awesome. Very energetic. The pacing is off many times, and some notes are wrong, but it's just awesome. I had tears in my eyes the first time I heard it all.

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I finally got the Gerhardt Return of the Jedi last week to complete my Star Wars rerecordings collection and its great like the previous two. Would you say the Varese Superman is on any level to the Gerhardt (as far as rerecordings of Williams goes) or not in the same leagues?

The Gerhardt Star Wars albums are the gold standard of film re-recordings. In fact I'll go so far as to say all of Gerhardt's albums represent film score re-recording at it's highest level. The Varese Superman is not quite as good as a Gerhardt album, but it's an excellent alternative and features the best sound of any Superman album out there.

While you're at it, get the Varese Jaws as well. The sound quality alone makes it superior to the 25th anniversary album, and the performance is really top-notch, too.

Neil

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Now, I hope Varese makes a re-recording that I'm dying to listen: Goldsmith's Star Trek: the Motion Picture. Of course, this would have to be made with Goldsmith's blessing, wish I doubt will happen. I think this would be one of the hardest scores to recreate. I've always considered (IMHO) the "Klingon Battle" cue a "landmark", if you will, in the history of film scores.

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Now, I hope Varese makes a re-recording that I'm dying to listen: Goldsmith's Star Trek: the Motion Picture. Of course, this would have to be made with Goldsmith's blessing, wish I doubt will happen. I think this would be one of the hardest scores to recreate. I've always considered (IMHO) the "Klingon Battle" cue a "landmark", if you will, in the history of film scores.

"The Klingon Battle" has been re-recorded twice. Once By Erich Kunzel and another time by Nic Raine.

I'd rather have a complete (official :music: )re-issue of the complete score than a re-recording. No one has ever managed to get the main theme to sound the way it did back in 1979.

Neil

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I have the Jaws rerecording--had to buy it right away--after all, its a Spielberg film! I agree, it's a great listen, plus I like that the cues are sequenced in film order.

Man, now I can't wait to have the Superman album. It'd better get here soon!

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Quote from Filmtracks Jaws review:

The old 1992 album would be only advisable for the most devoted Williams fans.

I can't believe he wrote that! He must be a hobbyist :music:. That album is a much easier listen than the Collector's Edition.

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Alex Cremers

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I have the Jaws rerecording--had to buy it right away--after all, its a Spielberg film! I agree, it's a great listen, plus I like that the cues are sequenced in film order.

Sadly, despite what Varese claims, the tracks on their album are not in order. Here is the correct track order:

Jaws ? Joel McNeely and the Royal Scottish National Orchestra

Main Title 1:06

The First Victim 1:43

The Empty Raft 1:15

The Pier Incident 2:19

Father and Son 2:19

The Alimentary Canal 2:02

Ben Gardner?s Boat 3:21

Montage 1:31

Into the Estuary 2:49

Out to Sea :56

A Tug on the Line 2:12

Man Against Beast 5:15

Quint?s Tale 2:30

Brody Panics 1:16

Barrel Off Starboard 1:38

The Great Chase 3:02

Three Barrels Under 2:05

From Bad to Worse :53

Quint Thinks it Over 1:08

The Shark Cage Fugue 2:00

The Shark Approaches :42

The Shark Hits the Cage 1:45

Quint Meets His End 1:08

Blown to Bits 3:11

End Title 1:56

Neil

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Anyone notice that in The Helicopter Rescue on the Varese Debney version,the seventh note of the Main Fanfare (as Superman lifts up the helicopter)is wrong?

K.M.

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Just stick with the JW LSO version extended version I say. Its the original and STILL the best.

I agree that the expanded OST is the best, BUT, the rerecording is also very worthwhile to have as well.

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Anyone notice that in The Helicopter Rescue on the Varese Debney version,the seventh note of  the Main Fanfare (as Superman lifts up the helicopter)is wrong?

K.M.

I read somewhere that it's based on an earlier or later composer's sketch score or something.

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Now, I hope Varese makes a re-recording that I'm dying to listen: Goldsmith's Star Trek: the Motion Picture. Of course, this would have to be made with Goldsmith's blessing, wish I doubt will happen. I think this would be one of the hardest scores to recreate. I've always considered (IMHO) the "Klingon Battle" cue a "landmark", if you will, in the history of film scores.

"The Klingon Battle" has been re-recorded twice. Once By Erich Kunzel and another time by Nic Raine.

I'd rather have a complete (official :music: )re-issue of the complete score than a re-recording. No one has ever managed to get the main theme to sound the way it did back in 1979.

Neil

Yes, I'd like that too, but with the recent release of the expanded soundtrack, I don't see it happening very soon (soon means about ten years or so), however a re-recording is more possible as the way they have done with Jaws, Superman, Out of Africa and others, to me Star Trek is a more challenging score than the three I mentioned, and it would be interesting what could be done with Varese's talented people.

About the other "Klingon Battle" recordings, I have the one by Erich Kunzel. It's interesting, but didn't like it much, I did not know about the other one, I hope to hear it one day... soon.

8O

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Talking about Varèse, it's all Royal Scottish Orchestra now but what happened to The National Philharmonic Orchestra? The recordings Varèse made with them in Abbey Road are amongst my favorite recordings (soundwise). Probably, that became too expensive.

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Alex Cremers

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What recordings, I only know if the TESB recording by Gerhardt, and that one was not produced by Varese, they only later released it?

I'm not talking Williams but Varèse and orchestras in general. The National Philharmonic is Goldsmith's favorite orchestra.

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Alex Cremers

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They were really only a session orchestra from album recordings, right?

Founded by Gerhardt.

Perhaps they no longer excist.

Weren't they basically the LSO minus a few members and plus a few other people?

Stefancos- who loves their work with Goldsmith and Gerhardt.

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The Varese recording of Superman is ok, some of the tempos are off but since Rhino released the original there was no need for me to keep it.

Now the Varese Jaws recording is a major disappointment. I don't know if its due to the miking, orchestrations or what but everytime the shark theme is played it sounds exactly the same, nothing like the Decca version where each time you hear the theme it has a different orchestration. Plus music is missing from The First Victim, where they find Chrissie's remains. The CD booklet describes A Tug On the Line as a scene that doesn't even occur in the film at all, a fisherman being eaten by the shark. (On the JAWS Signature Edition Laserdisc it mentions in an early draft of the script there was a scene similar to that and a few sketches were done but it was never filmed. Dunno if that was included on the DVD since they trimmed down some of the extras.)

Given McNeely's excellent Herrmann recordings I was very disappointed in Jaws. Basically it sounds like he combined orchestrations between the Decca and Williams original album

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I like the Jaws Varese,but since they were at it they should have made a hybrid album consisting of the film cues plus the extended cues like Promenade,Out to Sea,One Barrel Chase..ect... like on the Original album,they needed a fresh recording,instead of cloning the 25th aniversary release.

K.M.

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like on the Original album,they needed a fresh recording,instead of cloning the 25th aniversary release.

K.M.

As you should know, the Varese version was recorded before news of the Decca release became known.

Varese subsequently shelved their recording for a year or so.

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It's ok.

But I'll take Williams & The LSO anyday over anything else.

Most of you guys know, I rarely care for re-recordings, although some admittedly are better than others.

For me, Superman: The Movie is best represented (so far) by the Rhino 2 CD set. Everything else is a distant 2nd.

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Just stick with the JW LSO version extended version I say. Its the original and STILL the best.

I agree that the expanded OST is the best, BUT, the rerecording is also very worthwhile to have as well.

Whats the point in having an inferior version of the same score?

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If the original is lacking something, then I guess "other versions" are a good thing. Some re-recordings have a better sound which is pretty interesting. Performance-wise, some re-recordings are as good or better than the original. I like some of the versions on the Skywalker Symphony Orchestra more than the originals. In a sense, many (or even perhaps most) of Williams Original Soundtrack CDs are re-recorded too, since they are often not the same recordings as heard in the movies.

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Alex Cremers

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I like some of the versions on the Skywalker Symphony Orchestra more than the originals.

:)

Is it possible to like anything on that album? You want awesome Star Wars re-recordings then get the Gerhardt albums or the Kojian re-recording on Varese Sarabande records. You'll never listen to that Williams drink coaster of a snoozefest again.

Neil

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I have the Gerhardt CDs too except for the Star Wars/Close Encounters CD. Skywalker's sound quality is first-rate and some tracks are very good, IMO as a Star Wars specialist :) . I like "Here They Come" more on this CD than some other versions.

---------------

Alex Cremers

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Just stick with the JW LSO version extended version I say. Its the original and STILL the best.

I agree that the expanded OST is the best, BUT, the rerecording is also very worthwhile to have as well.

Whats the point in having an inferior version of the same score?

Indeed. But this recording is not inferior. Even if it were inferior, you would appreciate the original more.

I love the original very much, but thank God they made this recording, a classic deserves to be played again.

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I like some of the versions on the Skywalker Symphony Orchestra more than the originals.

:)

Is it possible to like anything on that album? You want awesome Star Wars re-recordings then get the Gerhardt albums or the Kojian re-recording on Varese Sarabande records. You'll never listen to that Williams drink coaster of a snoozefest again.

Neil

Gerhardt recordings are great. Haven't heard the Kojian versions. But Williams' re-recording in San Francisco is great, I dunno why some of you are being "so special". :roll:

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Whats the point in having an inferior version of the same score?

Sound quality, and just to hear a different way of performing it. Re-recordings often have advantages.

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Whats the point in having an inferior version of the same score?

Sound quality, and just to hear a different way of performing it. Re-recordings often have advantages.

Gotta go along with Morn on this one. One of my favourite aspects of listening to classical music is to hear different conductors and soloists interpretation of the melodies.

I absolutely adore the 1984 recording of the Beethoven's sixth symphony by Herbert Von Karajan (the greatest conductor of my generation IMO), better than any other I have heard.

I , too, will voice my support for the McNeely/RSNO version of Superman. Sonically, a great treat to hear the Superman theme roar forth in full digital clarity. To this point, to get the full sonic effect, I've contented myself with the John Williams/BPO re-recording. Though, there are some subtle differences in the performances, between the LSO (my personal fave) and the McNeely re-recordings, I treat them the same way, I would treat two different conductors interpretations of... say Holst's The Planets suite.

Just for fun, sometime, compare the 1989 recording with Orchestre Symphonique du Montreal conducted by Charles Dutoit and the 77 version by Zubin Mehta and The Los Angeles Philharmonic... You will be surprised by the subtle differences and nuances each conductor pulls from their orchestra...

BK: :) Mars, the bringer of War... Holst, Mehta/LAPO

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To this point, to get the full sonic effect, I've contented myself with the John Williams/BPO re-recording.

That's still my favorite performance of the Main Theme. Talk about a soaring march!

Though, there are some subtle differences in the performances, between the LSO (my personal fave) and the McNeely re-recordings, I treat them the same way

John Debney conducted the re-recording of Superman - The Movie.

Neil

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