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Mr. Breathmask

Alan Silvestri's Pirates of the Caribbean

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Last year, Klaus Badelt delivered what has unofficially been stamped as "the worst pirate movie score ever". I'm talking of course about his score to Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl, which resurrected the long-dead shiver-me-timber pirate films.

However, Klaus Badelt was not first choice for this film. It was Alan Silvestri, house composer for Robert Zemeckis, and who had previously worked with director Gore Verbinski on The Mexican and Mouse Hunt. His score was rejected.

When listening to Silvestri's 1989 score to Back to the Future Part III, I can't help but be in awe of the way he combines the pre-existing material from Back to the Future and Back to the Future Part II with a rootin' tootin' Old West element to the music.

Silvestri impressed me with that, and convinces me that he could have pulled off a swashbuckling adventure score to Pirates. According to alan-silvestri.com, an unofficial website about the composer, no music had been recorded, and Alan was in the middle of writing the music. The report also said he was released from the project because of "creative differences". In Hollywood terms, this generally means an argument between the director and (in this case) the composer, so it's not unlikely Silvestri was simply sacked.

So will his score ever see the light of day? Nothing was recorded, it's probable not even every cue had a rough version yet. Nevertheless, I'm wondering about what he did for the film, and why exactly he was thrown of the project. Seeing as how his score was never finished, let alone recorded, it'll probably be lost forever, and we'll never get to hear what Silvestri wrote fort he film. Pity.

- Marc, who will go to see PotC2 when it comes, but is hoping someone other than the MV folks'll score it.

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Let's hope they choose more wisely for PotC2 (will this really be made!?) and choose Silvestri so he can use the material he already wrote for that one. Williams of course would be even cooler.

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Silvestri has said that none of his Pirates music was even used in Tomb Raider 2. If you want to hear a really big score that probably indicates the quality that Silvestri's Pirates score was probably like, listen to The Mummy Returns.

Neil

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I'm talking of course about his score to Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl, which resurrected the long-dead shiver-me-timber pirate films.

Well, it DID make me shiver, but as far as I'm concerned, it didn't resurrect anything (unlike Korngold spinned too much in his grave).

Marian - who would like to hear Silvestri's score.

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- Marc, who will go to see PotC2 when it comes, but is hoping someone other than the MV folks'll score it.

With Bruckheimer producing the chances of that are exactly zero.

Justin - Glad that Silvestri was still able to do a good action score last year. (Tomb 2)

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I have read a few times that he was fired, "For using flutes" or something like that. I have also read repeatedly that he never recorded anything. Which can be entirly true; remember composer have keyboards and synth boards and make demos that sound pretty real. Like I think Beltrami's Texas Rangers is.

So we could still get it if someone has a copy of that.

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I don't know if he was fired for using flutes, but Jerry Bruckheimer allegedly told the 15 MV composers who came in that they'd be fired if they used flutes.

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I don't know if he was fired for using flutes, but Jerry Bruckheimer allegedly told the 15 MV composers who came in that they'd be fired if they used flutes.

Only 15? The director said on the commentary there were at least 30. :wave:

Still, I'm not big on Silvestri. BTTF is great, of course, but nothing else of his has ever really struck me. I was hopeful when I read on an early poster that Silvestri was doing POTC, but I wasn't crestfallen when they dropped him. Besides, the industry needs at LEAST a half-dozen MV scores a year. I mean, where else are they going to find music for trailers? Not to mention NFL highlight reels. 8O

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Still, I'm not big on Silvestri. BTTF is great, of course, but nothing else of his has ever really struck me.

Are you familiar with his score to Forrest Gump?

Ray Barnsbury

I don't think BTTF is that great. Classic theme, but not much more (not a big fan of the movie either). Number III is a fantastic score, but not the first one.

But Forrest Gump is one of the greatest and most magical scores ever, Mummy Returns is one of the greatest recent adventure scores, and IMO much better than the original. Roger Rabbit is fantastic, as are Mouse Hunt and Contact. Never really heard Tomb Raider 2, Eraser or Predator.

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I know about all of these scores, if you'd asked me to rattle off a list of Silvestri's work. It's one of those cases where the movies themselves (Mummy Returns? Tomb Raider 2? C'mon...) don't appeal to me in the least. Even Forrest Gump was something I never got into. Sorry, just not me.

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I know about all of these scores, if you'd asked me to rattle off a list of Silvestri's work. It's one of those cases where the movies themselves (Mummy Returns? Tomb Raider 2? C'mon...) don't appeal to me in the least. Even Forrest Gump was something I never got into. Sorry, just not me.

But what does that have to do with the scores?

Ray Barnsbury

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So will his score ever see the light of day?

I wish! I hope that Bruckheimer has a change of heart on the next POC and gives the role of composer to Silvestri. I'm tired of hearing artifical "engineered" scores. How about the actual use of an orchestra for a change?! Now there's a thought!

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I know about all of these scores, if you'd asked me to rattle off a list of Silvestri's work.  It's one of those cases where the movies themselves (Mummy Returns?  Tomb Raider 2? C'mon...) don't appeal to me in the least.  Even Forrest Gump was something I never got into.  Sorry, just not me.

That's a pretty.....unwise way to look at film scores.

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The Mummy Returns? That score wasn't good, it was noise and too much bombast...... Still, I guess it would fit better than mediocre pirate techno.

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The Mummy Returns? That score wasn't good, it was noise and too much bombast...... Still, I guess it would fit better than mediocre pirate techno.

It's ok, you're wrong. The score was great.

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It's ok, you're wrong.

:roll:

The Mummy Returns is loud and noisy and occasionally sounds like its suffering from "temp track syndrome" (CutThroat Island must have been on the temp track). It's a fun score, but after awhile, it's too much. Goldsmith's original is much better. It's not completely over the top and it actually takes a break now and again, as opposed to Silvestri's almost constant barrage of loud music.

Oh and Goldsmith is a far better composer than Silvestri.

Neil

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Goldsmith's original is much better.  It's not completely over the top and it actually takes a break now and again

Yeah, it sounds like Goldsmith was on a break while composing this.

It's good craftmanship, but nothing more, and has none of the fun spirit that Silvestri's superiour sequel score has.

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I agree with Steef. Goldsmith's original is fantastic and he is the better composer on a whole. But Silvestri's score is simply incredible. Few scores can maintain the level of energy that remains constant throughout the score. Truly astounding.

Also Silvestri's hero theme is better than Goldsmith's. ;)

Justin

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I totaly agree with Steef and Justin.

Silvestri's is more fun, more consistant and more original (fro Silvestri) than Goldsmith's. He may not have been a slave to the Temp, but he was a slave to the previous 30-40 years of his career. Silvestri's sound fresher and more free, not some catalogue of all his ethnic action scoring to date.

Goldsmith may have a good album, but IMO Silvestri has a great album, and has some classic Silvestri cues, Goldsmith's album is one whole, with no particulaly outstanding cue.

And Silvestri's hero theme IS much better than any of Golsmith's themes .

IMO it's Silvestri's best save Forrest Gump, and it' far better than any Goldsmith score since 97'.

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IMO it's Silvestri's best save Forrest Gump, and it' far better than any Goldsmith score since 97'.

I'd say it's as good as many. Such as Mulan, Insurrection, 13th Warrior and Nemesis. ;)

Justin

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I know about all of these scores, if you'd asked me to rattle off a list of Silvestri's work. It's one of those cases where the movies themselves (Mummy Returns? Tomb Raider 2? C'mon...) don't appeal to me in the least.

But what does that have to do with the scores?

Ray Barnsbury

I'm not saying I won't buy I score if the movie is bad (sorry if it sounded that way) I'm saying I have no interest in seeing those movies. I don't see the movie, therefore I do not hear the score, therefore I do not buy it. Tell you what, though, next time I'm at Barnes and Noble, I'll call up all of Silvestri's works and listen to the samples, ok? ;)

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IMO it's Silvestri's best save Forrest Gump, and it' far better than any Goldsmith score since 97'.

I'd say it's as good as many. Such as Mulan, Insurrection, 13th Warrior and Nemesis. ;)

Justin

IMO Nemesis sucks, Insurection sucks a bit less, 13th Warrior is just plain old overrated Goldsmith, and that Mulan is very good, but it has only one worthy theme.

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IMO Nemesis sucks, Insurection sucks a bit less, 13th Warrior is just plain old overrated Goldsmith, and that Mulan is very good, but it has only one worthy theme.

Nemesis is ok, Insurrection is excellent if you have the full score (the official album doesn't do it justice). Warrior is quite good, but not very good like Mummy. Mulan has a couple of themes as far as I remember (can't think of the themes themselves right now, while listening to Goldsmith Western music ;)) - in any case, I'd say it has all the themes it needs. :)

Marian - who has yet to hear Silvestri's Mummy.

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Besides, the industry needs at LEAST a half-dozen MV scores a year.  I mean, where else are they going to find music for trailers?  Not to mention NFL highlight reels.

I may be dense, but what does MV mean?

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Media Ventures. It's the composing company led by Hans Zimmer (though I think there were a few rumours a while ago that he left). They're first big score was The Rock but they've gone downhill ever since... The movies they've scored will say that only a single person has composed the music, but it's really a group of near 30 people all working on it.

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Let's hope they choose more wisely for PotC2 (will this really be made!?) and choose Silvestri so he can use the material he already wrote for that one. Williams of course would be even cooler.

OF course it will be made!

The original film made over 300 million at the box office domestically alone and pretty much the entire original cast has been signed on for the sequel.

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Let's hope they choose more wisely for PotC2 (will this really be made!?) and choose Silvestri so he can use the material he already wrote for that one. Williams of course would be even cooler.

Of course Bruckheimer won't come to his senses! He will hire MV again, because he is ignorant. All he cares about is money, not quality. At least Pirates was good, not like the travesty that was Pearl Harbour. And can anyone say CSI: New York?

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They're first big score was The Rock but they've gone downhill ever since...

I'd say they've remained on pretty much the same level. Simply because from The Rock, you can't go downhill too far anymore.

Marian - who thinks they did ONE great score: Chicken Run.

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On 4/3/2004 at 7:12 PM, Morlock said:

I don't know if he was fired for using flutes, but Jerry Bruckheimer allegedly told the 15 MV composers who came in that they'd be fired if they used flutes.

 

So he was basically fired for using real instruments. ROTFLMAO

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It is amusing how back then the consensus favored Silvestri's Mummy score over Goldsmith's, whereas the one last year has shown a rather crushing victory of JG.

 

But now that I think of it, as a child I prefered Silvestri's too, and it took some sensitivity to musical detail rising that made me reconsider this, maybe 4 years ago.

 

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