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Most UNDERrated Williams Scores


John Crichton

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OK, we've fought about our opinions (opinions) on Williams' most overrated scores. Now, it's only fair that we also tackle the most underrated.

As before, I'll start:

Star Wars: Episode II. I've loved this the first time I heard it, and still do today.

Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. It's underrated in large part due to the fact that it's so difficult to get a hold of to hear outside the film. I have only gotten to in the last 6 months or so, and it's now a Top 10 score for me.

Not too long ago I would have also said Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone, but lately I think it's been starting to get it's fair due.

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The Lost World: Jurassic Park would be my pick. As a sequel score it's already got the cards stacked against it, but I very rarely hear this one mentioned, especially with praise. But I love it. I won't gush too much because I've been planning a proper post on this album since I first listened to it about a year ago so I'll save it all for then, if it ever happens. But suffice to say, I think it's a thrilling, invigorating, complex score with some brilliant barnstorming moments and some of Williams' most frightening music as well!

CYPHER

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I don't think ToD is underrated. It's widely considered the Holy Grail of filmscores around here.  

- Marc

Marc speaks the truth, it is the holy grail, not to mention its a great score.

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The Lost World is a good pick. I like it a lot.

But I would have to go with either Hook or Jane Eyre. Only 1 of my friends seems to also think that Hook is one of the greatest out there, particularly the Prologue. Genius! And Jane Eyre is just simply brilliance. No other way to put it.

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Nixon, Sleepers, Rosewood, and Stepmom all contain some wonderful highlights that are often overlooked because the scores as a whole are so strongly associated with dry incidental material.

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I agree with Spacecamp. But for me, the most underrated Williams score by far is Far and Away. It has all the ingredients of a classic Williams score - bold, sweeping themes, thrilling action music, tender moments, and an ethnic flair (whether or not it's authentic). And it's very rarely mentioned around here, unless by me or a few others.

Ray Barnsbury

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Spacecamp,as I've said.

:mrgreen:

Also Stanley and Iris. It's hardly been mentioned at this forum, and yet I think it's a wonderful little score (and at 28 minutes on the CD I do mean little!).

I don't mind the 28 minutes (is it that short? :baaa: ). It's a very good 28 minutes! With Stanley and Iris (and The Accidental Tourist) John proved he was quite capable of scoring "little" movies without relying on his trademark "weapons". They made me an even bigger fan of him.

----------------

Alex Cremers

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My criteria for underrated scores are as follows:

1. The score must not be considered to be very good by the majority of film score fans

2. The score must be considered to be good, but not excellent, by JW fans

3. The score must actually (IMO) be excellent

Therefore, on this basis, I think the following scores are underrated:

1. Seven Years in Tibet. That main theme, swooping as it does, and with that sumptuous brass backing, is amazing. And Yo-Yo Ma is genius. The whole score is hardly ever discussed, but I think it is all brilliant.

2. Minority Report. First time I heard it, I thought "boring". But repeating listenings have revealed a complex mess of underscore, tension and some brilliant themes. "Anderton's Great Escape" is the best JW action writing since Phantom Menace; "Spyders" is the most apposite theme for years; "Sean's Theme" is just remarkably emotional. Overall a 5* score, but often given 4 or even 3!

3. A.I. Now some will argue that JW fans think it is excellent, but I would say that it is beyond excellent. It is, at least, the best score of the 21st Century; perhaps the best since Phantom Menace. Totally cheated out of the Oscar, it contains the best minimalist writing of the last ten years (better even than The Hours IMO), some fantastic themes (the Abandoned in the Woods theme; the various themes in Hide and Seek; the cybertronics theme; and of course Monica's theme, which is up there in JW's top 10 themes of all time IMO. The score is so eclectic, such a mesh of styles and ideas. And yet it works SO well in the film, and it is SO effective as an album I would vote it underrated.

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My vote goes to The Poseidon Adventure, which is certainly underrated by those who, erm, don't rate it highly. It is a shame that the original soundtrack master tapes were not in a better state when FSM did their CD a few years back, otherwise I am sure that this score would be held in much higher regard.

It is one score by John Williams that could really do with a faithful digital re-recording to bring out all the nuances and dynamics of the orchestration. Unfortunately all the cover versions that I have heard have been disappointing and fail to capture the emotion of the original.

Life is up there, Mrs. Rosen.

Damien :P

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Just about any JW score that is not highly rated is udnerrated. Stanely and Iris was the last one I listened to.

Stanely? That sounds gross.

Welcome back, numbnuts....

Neil

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Yup, I was about to edit, but closed the wrong page, and didn't remember which thread it was. Glad to know some things will never, ever change.

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"Anderton's Great Escape" is the best JW action writing since Phantom Menace "

A.I. Now some will argue that JW fans think it is excellent, but I would say that it is beyond excellent. It is, at least, the best score of the 21st Century; perhaps the best since Phantom Menace.

What year do you think PM came out :P, sounds like you're comparing these cues to something written long ago, perhaps in a galaxy far far away.

I think Presumed Innocent is kinda underrated, good theme, good score overall

Tim

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2. Minority Report. First time I heard it, I thought "boring". But repeating listenings have revealed a complex mess of underscore, tension and some brilliant themes. "Anderton's Great Escape" is the best JW action writing since Phantom Menace; "Spyders" is the most apposite theme for years; "Sean's Theme" is just remarkably emotional. Overall a 5* score, but often given 4 or even 3!

Well said that bod.....

Greg - who doesn't quite agree 100% (maybe about 90%) with the reasoning here - but who rates MR as one of Williams' best....

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AI is excellent just for the Blue Fairy theme alone 8O

I couldn't agree more. The Blue Fairy Theme is one my my favorite John Williams of all time, and the score for A.I. is one of Williams' most accomplished scores to date I feel. Some other underrated score: Far and Away, as Ray has already mentioned. Another one of my favorite Williams scores that is never mentioned is Presumed Innocent. That main theme is absolutely haunting - it gets under my skin in every way. I just love when Williams composes really dark music, but it's rarely discussed here on this Board. The Fury, for instance, is another wonderfully dark score that is shear orchestral power. The LSO re-recording is outstanding. Some other underrated scores are The Lost World, which has already been mentioned, JFK and Sabrina, which I will forever stand by diskolubus on. The main theme is good, but the beauty of that score, as is often the case with Williams scores, is in the secondary themes.

Ted

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I concur about Sabrina. I really got into that score shortly after I got it last year. I just love all three themes, and the overall feel is so.....charming, romantic, whatever you want to call it. Just a really pleasant, lovely score.

Ray Barnsbury

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My criteria: Scores that I seem to like more than the majority of MB posters:

- The Fury

- Jaws 2

- The Lost World

- Far and Away

- Attack of the Clones

- A.I.

- The Eiger Sanction

- Black Sunday

- The Phantom Menace

- Jane Eyre

TOD and Hook aren't underrated, guys. I love them both alot, but both have lots of vocal supporters on this MB, about as much as they deserve, IMO.

I admit, the more subtle non-action (the Stepmoms, Accidental Tourists and such) scores ARE underrated. And I also admit that they don't rank very highly on my lists either, so I also admittedly underrate them. They just don't match my tastes and I'm really happy when others appreciate the scores that I don't appreciate as much.

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Othr than Jane Eyre - which I don't possess and have never heard so can't comment - Chris, I agree with you...though to be honest it hadn't twigged that the majority didn't rate some of these that highly!

Eiger Sanction - track 5 is a great "Get in the car, put the shades on and drive, man..." track and the whole album generally ignored too much....I've thought for some time that TPM needs a re-assessment, and The Lost World, whilst a little monotonous at times, transcended the film it was written for, and blew the original out of the water (In my humble opinion)......

The Fury is just a classic, whichever version you possess....

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Eiger Sanction - track 5 is a great "Get in the car, put the shades on and drive, man..." track and the whole album generally ignored too much...

Eiger is a top ten score for me, it's a great album. I can listen to it any day of the week. Before I got it on CD I had it on LP that was in horrible condition. I loved it even then, I still play that scratchy record too from time to time. It's the way I first heard it, and in some ways I like it better with the scratches.

Jeff - who thinks scratchy records and jazz music sound great together

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Yes, Always is underrated. I said that in the other thread. I also agree that Jane Eyre may not be underrated, but I put it in there for me. OOPS! Another underrated is Images for me.

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It is one score by John Williams that could really do with a faithful digital re-recording to bring out all the nuances and dynamics of the orchestration.  Unfortunately all the cover versions that I have heard have been disappointing and fail to capture the emotion of the original.

:

I agree,there's something edgy,ominous about the OST recording of the Main Theme(and End Credits).The original recording of the JAWS theme also falls into that category.All subsequent re-recordings have failed to capture the drama perfectly.All the cover versions of The Poseidon Adventure sound cheezy,but it's actually a great theme.

I also add to the list the Lost in Space TV scoresThere's a bunch of great dramatic moments in there.The countdown into the Main Theme,the music from the crash sequence,the danger themes,the robot theme,the suspenseful "Next Week,Same Channel..." cliffhanger music...

K.M.

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I think John Williams' reputation is such that anything he did post-Star Wars was automatically respected. Star Wars turned John into some kind of 'master Jedi" of soundtracks.

As much praise has been given to Jaws, I don't think it gets the full respect that it deserves simply because it was pre-Star Wars. I think Jaws was just as brilliantly scored as Star Wars was! I also think that some of the music that John did immediately following Jaws holds up very well against the post-Star Wars stuff (Midway, Black Sunday, Missouri Breaks).

Ricardo, who is currently listening to Heartbeeps and enjoying it very much! :)

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Yes, Always is underrated. I said that in the other thread. I also agree that Jane Eyre may not be underrated, but I put it in there for me. OOPS! Another underrated is Images for me.

I think Jane Eyre is over-rated. It won awards, is one of Williams' personal faves, and everyone hails it as something wonderful. I find it rather dull in places (with a couple of superb cues, admittedly) and the string quartet pastiche is just awful. It's not a bad film score overall, but it's nowhere near as consistently good as some seem to think. IMO that is.

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I couldn't agree more. The Blue Fairy Theme is one my my favorite John Williams of all time, and the score for A.I. is one of Williams' most accomplished scores to date I feel. Some other underrated score: Far and Away, as Ray has already mentioned. Another one of my favorite Williams scores that is never mentioned is Presumed Innocent. That main theme is absolutely haunting - it gets under my skin in every way. I just love when Williams composes really dark music, but it's rarely discussed here on this Board. The Fury, for instance, is another wonderfully dark score that is shear orchestral power. The LSO re-recording is outstanding. Some other underrated scores are The Lost World, which has already been mentioned, JFK and Sabrina, which I will forever stand by diskolubus on. The main theme is good, but the beauty of that score, as is often the case with Williams scores, is in the secondary themes.

Ted! :)

Some quality discussion in this thread - its nice to see everyone throwing in their two cents. It's fun to see the commonalities in taste, as well as the discrepancies, plus no one's arguing with each other's choices (yet). :ola:

CYPHER

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LOL No, I was actually asking. I haven't had any in-depth theory or classical education, and I know sometimes that makes a difference in how someone views a piece.

Ray Barnsbury

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  • 10 years later...

Always. Ever since I first heard "Always: Theme", the concert suite on the classic Spielberg/Williams Collaboration album, I was entranced. I had no knowledge of the film or the score prior to that album, which I feel we all must have owned? It's got to be a JWFan right of passage.

I'm baffled as to why it seems so many disagree with me there. The themes are lovely. The piano in "Pete and Dorinda"? There's literally nothing better. Williams achieved this ethereal sound that's as spine-tingling and hair-raising to me as any of his most iconic moments. That french horn solo is one of the best things he's ever done, period.

But what do I know?

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Wow, so many members in this thread who are no longer active. Things have changed quite a bit in the last ten years.

And those who are active are still the incorrigible taste-shamers they always have been.

I'm looking at you, BB. :angry:

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