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The Doctor Who Thread.....


Greg1138

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Not at all. The Moffat reign largely tries to make Doctor Who more like Hollywood. And I don't mean any negative connotations with that. The budget is bigger, CGI is used more intelligently, and Moffat's plots are usually quite excellent. It's more flashy,

I'm not actually sure the budget is bigger. I think the BBC had to make cuts on season 6.

CGI is cheaper then it was in the RTD era though. And the fact that its shot in HD simply helps the look.

Both showrunners have a fondness for overcomplicated plotting. RTD would go waaaay more overboard then Moffat, annoyingly so at times, but like you said, his eps often had heart when they needed it. Moffat hasnt moved with his eps as much. (he is capable of that though, as some eps proof, and the season 2 finale of Sherlock)

Both have their strength and weaknesses which make Who a very good, but sometimes quite annoying show.

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What was your opinion of the last 2 seasons KK?

Season 6 was fantastic, with every episode ranging from solid to brilliant. It was a great story arc for the season, and the whole first half was non-stop thrills. Of course, I knew from get-go, that there was no way the finale would live up to the setup in the first episode and I was right. The season finale was a let-down, and the explanation for the Doctor's "death" was a cheat that I still don't understand. The whole reason he had to die was because him living would basically unravel time as they knew it....so how exactly do you cheat time with a robot clone? Oops, spoilers ;) Other than that, I thought it was great.

Season 7 was largely a let down. I mean, it was good but the story arc wasn't as interesting or focused. And I was quite disappointed with how they handled Amy's and Rorys departure, not to mentioned they've really diluted the effectiveness of the weeping angels by using them so much. It's like RTD and his excessive use of the Daleks (although not as bad). I mean the Statue of Liberty? How does that work?! Also, although I really liked the first few episodes with Jeann Louise Coleman as the new companion, I'm still quite not feeling her, especially after the big arc for Amy Pond. And while the season finale was pretty good, the way they tried to retain Coleman as the companion still seems like a but of a cop-out, but still great stuff. Oh and am I correct in understanding that we won't be seeing any more stories with River Song? We haven't seen it all yet though!!! :(

So overall, of the Moffat series, season 7 was the weakest, season 6 was consistently the strongest and season 5 had the best finale.

Not at all. The Moffat reign largely tries to make Doctor Who more like Hollywood. And I don't mean any negative connotations with that. The budget is bigger, CGI is used more intelligently, and Moffat's plots are usually quite excellent. It's more flashy,

I'm not actually sure the budget is bigger. I think the BBC had to make cuts on season 6.

CGI is cheaper then it was in the RTD era though. And the fact that its shot in HD simply helps the look.

Both showrunners have a fondness for overcomplicated plotting. RTD would go waaaay more overboard then Moffat, annoyingly so at times, but like you said, his eps often had heart when they needed it. Moffat hasnt moved with his eps as much. (he is capable of that though, as some eps proof, and the season 2 finale of Sherlock)

Both have their strength and weaknesses which make Who a very good, but sometimes quite annoying show.

That's very true, especially about the over complicated plotting. I started to feel it wearing down on me near the end of the 6th season :P

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I have quite mixed feeligs about series 6. It has some very strong stuff,and the Doctor's death angle is brilliant. But I hate the resolution. I'm convinced that that had something else in mind when they first developped the season and dropped it. I mean what's the point of the whole Flesh doctor?

My biggest gripe about the resolution as it is is that it renders one of my fav scenes from the first ep pointless

River's reaction when The Doctor walks in the dinner after everyone thinks he is dead. She slaps him and is genuinely, visibly shocked. But according to The Wedding Of River Song, THAT version of River would already have knows about the events at the lake, and that the Doctor was not dead, meaning all that grief and shock was faked.




Season 7 was largely a let down. I mean, it was good but the story arc wasn't as interesting or focused. And I was quite disappointed with how they handled Amy's and Rorys departure, not to mentioned they've really diluted the effectiveness of the weeping angels by using them so much.

As far as I'm concerned Amy and Rory's story was played out in season 6. The Doctor had left them, River was safe, and they looked like they were gonna have a nice life together.

I actually kinda liked that that a companion would actually leave the Doctor without any kind of heartbreaking ending. But noooo....The Doctor had to be heartbroken and shellshocked yet again!

It seemed very very obvious in series 7, that Amy and Rory were gonna depart, it all felt hugely drawn out. Also it means we only had Clara for half a season now.




That's very true, especially about the over complicated plotting. I started to feel it wearing down on me near the end of the 6th season :P

Season 6 really ramped up both the complicated multi episode plotting AND the general pace of the episodes. Important stuff is run by so fast at times that you don't even have time to digest.

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Someday I'll give Doctor Who another try, but I have sooooo much other shows lined up to watch before I could do that....

Unless Dr Who becomes my new "watch while on the elliptical at the gym" show, which it might....

If you ever do, I recommend Series/Season 5, episode 1 "The Eleventh Hour." Its the intro to the 11th Doctor, and may be more in line with your tastes. You can always go back and rewatch earlier seasons if you do come to like the show. I do the same with the classic episodes, watching them out of order that is, and have no problem following, though it is harder with the newer series considering they have season long plots.

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I love seeing Doctor Who out of order.

Jason, at least watch the rest of the Moffat episodes of the RTD era and/or some others like Midnight. They're easy to enjoy for any viewer who likes fantasy, Doctor Who or not.

In my case, the several premises of Doctor Who, the mix of all kinds of completely unrelated elements and the tone reminiscent of Buffy make me really like it, but I think it must be hard to "get" for a lot of people.

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S1X12 Bad Wolf / S1X13 The Parting Of The Ways

Bad Wolf is basically a satirical look at TV culture, with well done parodies of Big Brother, What Not To Wear and The Weakest Link (the Anne Droid is fantastic). Captain Jack is great with Trinny and Susanne

I doubt this will age well though. As far as I know these programs are no longer in production in the UK.

Much of what remains is a set up to the season finale. Eccleston is good when he thinks he lost Rose. The Cliffhanger is a good one.

Part 2 contains all the big emotional stuff. Billie Piper does some of her best work as a Rose who is cut of 200.000 years from her Doctor and seems unable to save him. The scene were she tells Jackie that she saw her father thanks to The Doctor is especially well done.

In the end, the 9th Doctor dies. And the era of David Tennant is born.

The 9th Doctor may be forgotten a tiny bit, because of the huge popularity and longer reign of Tennant. Yet Eccleston made a superb Doctor. Far less eccentric the the two that would follow, more pessimistic, impatient. In many ways more dependant upon his assistant then he 10th and 11th Doctor. The relationship between him and Rose was interesting in that in some ways she was wiser then him, his equal on matters of morality. Rose Tyler would develop a different rapport with the 10th Doctor, with more obvious romantic overtones (and Rose being quite jealous and possessive of The Doctor)

Apparently Ecclestone declined to be in the 50th anniversary episode. It's a pity. He would have been FANTASTIC!

Now....onwards to Barcelona!

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A Children In Need special featuring Tennant for the first time, continuing right after The Parting Of The Ways.

Though he would became probably the most loved Doctor since Tom Baker, here he feels like an intruder, it feels wrong. Rose wants HER Doctor back, not this skinny upstart.

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I didn't really like the ending to the resolution of the recurring bad wolf season arc. Found it disappointing. But the heart was there.

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True, but it was not known that he would depart after just one series. Apparently Acclestone did not enjoy working with some of the people in charge (probably RTD, the showrunner)

The Christmas Invasion

After the departure of Ecclestone (who actually was very popular at the time) reactions to Tennant slightly pensive.

Instead of showing off the new Doctor, RTD makes the interesting choice of featuring him as little as possible, while Earth is under attack from an Alien race that makes one third of the population stand on a ledge, and comes through earth's atmosphere in ID4 style. The world NEEDS the Doctor. Rose needs her Doctor, but is left with some stranger lying comatose in her mum's bed.

The way this episode withholds the Doctor until things seem at it's most hopeless, before he comes out, pyjama's and all and saves the day is rather a stroke of genius. Tennant shines in those scenes, showing us what he has in store and gives us a tastes of what will defiantly become HIS Doctor. Piper is strong a a Rose who had the wind kicked out of her a bit. (Billie Piper is a good, convincing crier on camera, that helps) She tried to admirably fill The Doctor's shoes, but doesn't stand a chance. (sadly this aspect would become lost in series 4, when Rose returns as a sort of Buffy/Sarah Conner heroine, brandishing a huge gun, not flinching when things explode nest to her)

Penelope Wilton returns as Harriet Jones, PM this time, but still feels she needs to introduce herself. (nice running gag)

Her fate is tragic because her decision is defend-able, and possible in the best interest of Earth.

Quite a difference hearing Murray Gold use an actual orchestra.

Still the best of the Christmas specials. Exciting, funny, well acted, with a really clever script.

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That's not what I read. I read that they knew all along Eccleston would only be the doctor for one season, that they had already signed on David Tennant before filming began for the first season, and that it ended the way they always intended.

But I could certainly be wrong.

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From an 2010 interview:

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-228879833.html

Eccleston denied that he left due to fear of being typecast. He stated that he "didn't enjoy the environment and the culture that we, the cast and crew, had to work in" and that he did not want to do any more based on the experience.He said, "I wasn't comfortable. I thought 'If I stay in this job, I'm going to have to blind myself to certain things that I thought were wrong.' And I think it's more important to be your own man than be successful, so I left."

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I'm sure he signed for one series, but with the option for more, and decided he didn't want too.

Yup, seems like what I had read all those years ago was wrong. Oh well.

Well, the news that Eccleston was leaving broke around the third episode of series 1. Disclosed by accident by the BBC. Any news that he was unhappy working on the show would have been quite damaging to it.

New Earth

Tennants first full "normal" ep. He and Piper have a great chemistry together and it shows. He also has a knack for the sort of dialogue RTJ writes. Switching effortlessly from chatty nonsense to more serious stuff.

My least favorite Tenth Doctor catchphrase "I'm sorry, I'm so sorry" is uttered here for the first time. Still seeming sincere.

Billie Piper has fun playing a more sexy and sultry Cassandra invaded Rose. The actress usually dresses down a bit as Rose, but here she has her cleavage out a bit and looks stunning for it. She is also very funny.

Interestingly, the theme for The Face Of Boe as heard in this episode contains a piano figure that would become the closing part of The Doctor Forever theme.I'm sure it's just a coincidence, but the connection is cool.

Good ep to get the series started. not hugely memorable though.



Tooth and Claw

The Doctor and Rose meet Queen Victoria and try and get her to saw "We are not amused".

A Gothic horror story done in a high octane style. It's actually quite amazing the difference in action staging between this episode and The Dalek from season one. That was had clunky action, mainly static camera shots. This is far more energetic and vibrant.

The kung-fu monks in the beginning are weird though.

Continuing with the tradition of having real historical characters in Dr. Who. Pauline Collins makes a fine and resilient Queen Victoria. Her banishment of The Doctor and Rose is a real hoot.

Fun episode, especially because of the dark, Scottish setting and Gothic feel to it. No classic though.

School Reunion

A nice, but very Scooby Doo plot about strange goings on at a school is enhanced by the first actual character from Classic Who to return.

Liz Sladen is an absolute delight to watch in this, her interactions with Tennant (who seems positively star struck at points) and her present day rival make this episode an absolute peach.

It also doesnt shy away from the darker, dodgier aspects of the Doctor.

Sarah was at one point special, as Rose was special in her time, they both got replaced by others. (Amy was special, up untill Clara rolled around, now Clara is special)

Anthony Head has a rather nice confrontation with The Doctor by the school swimming pool (Head would make a decent doctor himself)

To add to the nostalgia factor, they drag out the tin dog as well. Cheesy but fun.

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The Girl In The Fireplace.

The second story by Moffat for the revived series. Looking at it now it contains many elements that would re-appear after he took over as showrunner.

There are many similarities between Madame Le Pompadour and Amy Pond. They both meet the doctor first when they are children. Both consider them imaginary friends when grown up. Both are kept waiting after he promised to take them to the stars, and both have a crack or window in time near them, influencing their lives.

The episode as a whole also has many similarities to Dr Who eps from series 5 onwards. It starts mid story and then flashes back, which is something that Moffat does a lot after he took over (series 7 is full of eps that do that). It also has quite a lot of stuff crammed into 45 minutes, just like a modern day Who episode.

The idea of repair droids getting it wrong is similar to the Nanogenes from The Doctor Dances. Repairing human's but with faulty information. Reinnette even talks about The Doctor's name being hidden, which is something that would return in Moffat's excellent Silence In The Library/Forest Of The Dead, and many a Who story in his era as show runner.

Taken on it's own it's a good story with a moving conclusion. Many consider it one of the best episodes. I'm not sure. The clockwork men are rather beautiful to behold, and the encounter of a horse on a space ship is hilarious. (got more laughs from that scene then I got from Dinosaurs On A Space Ship).

But it has many of the same issues I would later have with many a Moffat episode. Too much crammed into 45 minutes. The pivotal relationship between madame Le Pompadour and The Doctor wasn't given quite enough time. Which lessens it's effectiveness for me.

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Rise Of The Cybermen / The Age Of Steel

A solid two parter that manages to bring the Cybermen back to the Whoniverse looking cooler and more menacing then ever. Bring Rose's dad Pete back again and turn Mickey The Idiot in Mickey the hero!

Roger Loyd Pack, known from Only Fools And Horses chews the fat nicely as the creator on these Cybermen (great voice).

Murray Gold does a cracking Cyberman theme.

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I never liked the Cybermen theme. Can't help but role my eyes everytime I hear it (very cheesy stuff, and sounds rather incomplete as a theme), but I do appreciate the thematic continuity.

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Oh it's over the top and deliberately gothic in nature. But it fits the Cybermen well.

The Idiots Lantarn

Never been a fav of mine. The drab, post war London atmosphere is well done though. Very average episode.

This reminds me. Fear Her is the only episode i've seen once, because it hate...hate...hated it and never bothered to revisit it.

Lot of Who eps I dont particulary care for, but Fear Her actually put me in a rotten mood (ala Prometheus)

Might just skip it again

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Rise Of The Cybermen / The Age Of Steel

A solid two parter that manages to bring the Cybermen back to the Whoniverse looking cooler and more menacing then ever. Bring Rose's dad Pete back again and turn Mickey The Idiot in Mickey the hero!

Roger Loyd Pack, known from Only Fools And Horses chews the fat nicely as the creator on these Cybermen (great voice).

Murray Gold does a cracking Cyberman theme.

John Lumic is Barty Crouch. It's too bad we don't get to see him again.

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Any speculation about which version of the Tenth Doctor is returning?

Since in The Name Of The Doctor we say different incarnations running around, he could very easily come from there, but it's also possible that they will feature the Meta-crisis Doctor, formed from The Doctor's cut of hand after it received a burst of regeneration energy.

He was last seen with Rose Tyler heading for the parallel Earth, and since Rose will be in the special too.....

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The Meta-Crisis Doctor was my guess. I doubt the Doctor wants to cross his own timeline.

Another alternative is that Ten and Rose will stay in their own flashback story that has implications for Eleven and Clara, but they won't actually meet. I don't like this idea one bit.

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It won't be as fun if its the Meta-Crisis Doctor. Besides, the show always goes on about all these rules that must NEVER be broken (crossing timelines, travelling through alternate dimensions, etc etc) and yet they always get broken....every one!

Bring home the real thing!

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I never figured otherwise that 10 and 11 would interact. I mean that's pretty much the fan wank everyone is waiting for.

Like Kirk and Picard in Generations.



More speculation. Will this story feature The Timewar? Will we see the destruction of Gallifrey?

The Dark Doctor, and some images in the poster seem to suggest this.

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Besides, the show always goes on about all these rules that must NEVER be broken (crossing timelines, travelling through alternate dimensions, etc etc) and yet they always get broken....every one!

That's sort of the point, of course.

More speculation. Will this story feature The Timewar? Will we see the destruction of Gallifrey?

The Dark Doctor, and some images in the poster seem to suggest this.

I think 10 and 11 try to stop John Hurt and fail. Or something. I dunno.

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Well, multiple versions of the Doctor interacting is nothing new. They even did it with the revamprd series (Timecrash).

But i doubt the 10th will be ressurected in some way. He will just be from a time before his death.

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I wouldn't be surprised if 10 turns out to be a Zygon working with 11 and only at the end do we ever see the real 10 and Rose inconsequentially on the street or something. I don't think its the case, and that its simply S2 10 and current 11, but it would be a nice twist.

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I don't think the Doctor will be resurrected either. They'll just cross timelines from their individual periods of reign.

And if they're covering the Time War, doesn't a single 45-minute episode seem a bit short to squeeze in that kind of massive plot, along with all the cameos?

I wonder why this wasn't a two-parter.

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75 minutes I believe.

The Impossible Planet / The Satan Pit

Introduces the Ood to the Whoniverse. Probably the most memorable new species from the revived series.

This 2 parter has a really creepy, unsettling atmosphere to it. And touches topics like religion and Satan far closer then is normal for this show.

The Doctor's descent into the pit is well done, even though what he finds down there is a bit of a let down.

Some effective Ehru music music for The Beast, but the action scenes seem to recycle the same couple of minutes over and over again.

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After nearly falling asleep watching a 6 ep Pertwee serial some 2 years ago i halted my attempts at Classic Who.

Started with the 2 parter The Sontaran Experiment.

Not bad, very rough and ready stuff. Tom Baker certainly is charismatic.

Watching The Genesis Of The Daleks now.

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Brilliant?

Ummm...OK.

I have known for a while that Classic Who inst really my cup of tea. But i would rate this as, merely passable.

The story has points of interest, but is soooo stretched out. It's also full of scenes of The Doctor, Sarah (not Sarah Jane???) and some other assistant who's name I can't recall (let's call him Toff) get split up, captured, escpae, split up agin, get captured, escape etc etc...Up to the point of it being farcical

Davros is indeed a brilliant creation, and by far the best thing about this serial. But everyone around him is stupid.

Modern Who sometimes falters with it's eagerness to put in sudden dramatic plot twists. This one telegraphs EVERYTHING. I don't like watching something where I know what's obviously gonna happen 10 minutes before the characters do. It's very boring.

Tom Baker has an enormous amount of charm and charisma. Even though he was much younger then previous Doctor's he has an effortless authority in the role (rather like Matt Smith). But even he is written like an idiot at points (Where's the time ring? I must have dropped it?)

There is stuff in there that would make this an excellent 90 minute episode. But the finished result barely manages to hold attention.

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Army Of Ghosts / Doomsday

Brilliantly exhilarating two parter. The formal intoduction of Torchwood. Daleks and Cyberman together. (some hilarious scenes of them interacting).

The ending is one of the most heartbreaking ones in Doctor Who history. Companions leaving in traumatic events would later become quite normal for the Doctor.

Their last scene together at the beach is truly a cry-fest.

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There have been a few times I got nerd tears in Doctor Who. That episode was one. I already mentioned another. I rewatched the two parter with Davros for its context with Torchwood, and I stepped back to watch the end of Turn Left, and the return of Bad Wolf was another.

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You can say what you want about RTD, bit he's great at these big emotional moments.

The Runaway Bride.

The second Christmas special take on a more Christmas pantomime quality. Quite a lot of broad, over the top comedy in this.

The first appearance of Donna Noble. Tennant was always good in his comedy moments and works very well together with born comedienne Tate, who creates a character which is both annoying (at times making Jackie Tyler seem reasonable in comparison) and yet you develop a lot of sympathy for her. Tate actually does very well in the emotional moments as well.

This episode marks the birth of the slighter darker Tenth Doctor. Visibly hurt by the loss of Rose. He shows a ruthlessness that would return in later seasons, and particularly the specials.

Sarah Parish plays her villain in true overblown panto style.

Murray Gold's score is larger then life, energetic, mostly orchestral and with some great and vibrant action and awe cues. And catches the Christmas spirit nicely

Good special, slightly underrated. The main gripe I have it that at no point does it look like Christmas. This was a summer shoot and it's very, very obvious.



There have been a few times I got nerd tears in Doctor Who. That episode was one. I already mentioned another. I rewatched the two parter with Davros for its context with Torchwood, and I stepped back to watch the end of Turn Left, and the return of Bad Wolf was another.

The final part of Turn left. Donna saying the words Bad Wolf, then everything going bezerk, with Al The Strange Strange Creaturs playing liuder then ever is a goosebump moment. As it the first appearence of Rose

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The evil bitch in charge of Torchwood One was a treat to watch.

She was evil, but quite hot.

Yvonne Hartman is absolutely gorgeous!!!!!!!!!! As is Tracy-Ann Oberman...

Check-out her work in the comedy sketch show "Big Train".

"Doomsday", a tear-fest? F**king A! As was "You know what? So was I", and "I don't want to go!".

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