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The Doctor Who Thread.....

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24 minutes ago, Richard said:

@Zanobard, please define "glory days".

 

For me, series 1-4.

 

I enjoyed the show post-Tennant, but nowhere near as much (although in retrospect, Smith and Capaldi were miles better than what we have now).

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Quite enjoyed the finale. Nice to get closure on 'Tim Shaw' but the almost embarrassing ease with which Ryan dispatched Rosa's bad guy, Chris Noth being allowed to simply wander off at the end of Arachnids In The UK and the alien threat looking like it had got lost on its way to a Disney flick (instead of 6 feet plus of scaly terror) in the fifth episode still grates. 

 

And now we know why the special is on New Year's Day ... next series is now confirmed as not airing until 2020.          

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10 minutes ago, Sweeping Strings said:

Quite enjoyed the finale. Nice to get closure on 'Tim Shaw' but the almost embarrassing ease with which Ryan dispatched Rosa's bad guy, Chris Noth being allowed to simply wander off at the end of Arachnids In The UK and the alien threat looking like it had got lost on its way to a Disney flick (instead of 6 feet plus of scaly terror) in the fifth episode still grates.

 

Bad episode endings seem to have been a bit of a recurring theme for series 11. A lot of them started off quite well but just weren't quite able to "stick the landing".

 

10 minutes ago, Sweeping Strings said:

And now we know why the special is on New Year's Day ... next series is now confirmed as not airing until 2020.          

 

um2.gif

 

Sigh.

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An animated version of lost Second Doctor story The Macra Terror will be released in March - 

  https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/bbcstudios/2018/doctor-who-macra-terror-animation

The Macra put in a brief second appearance in the Tenth Doctor episode Gridlock.  

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2 hours ago, Sweeping Strings said:

An animated version of lost Second Doctor story The Macra Terror will be released in March - 

  https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/bbcstudios/2018/doctor-who-macra-terror-animation

The Macra put in a brief second appearance in the Tenth Doctor episode Gridlock.  

 

Awesome!

 

Hope The Wheel In Space is next, it's the last Cyberman story that's not been released.

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Also ... back in the day Tom Baker and Ian 'Harry' Marter wrote 'Doctor Who Meets Scratchman', a script for a Fourth Doctor movie. Due to funding difficulties it was never made, but Baker has adapted it into a novel simply entitled 'Scratchman' which is out in January.  

 

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Reading through the thread, I guess I'm in the minority that really enjoyed this season.

 

I thought the cast was well devised and I enjoyed the team aspect.  It felt like the Davison era done right, with only the Arachnids episode really not working for me (though I like how quickly the Doctor latched onto protecting Yaz's mum).

 

Overall, I enjoyed the less frenetic, more focused stories that were being told, and I appreciated the Davies/Moffat perchance for appealing to the lowest denominator at times was thrown out the window.  In a previous season, Grace definitely would have been brought back to life, and the fact that Chibnall didn't do this solved a big problem in Who were anything big or emotional would be undone and lose all the impact.  Chibnall has proven he is willing to sacrifice characters and I truly appreciate that there are some stakes again in Who.

 

As for The Doctor, I enjoyed Whittaker's schoolgirl charm and enthusiasm which she brought to the role.  It seemed a bit like Davison and Tennant merged and the fact that as a woman now the Doctor couldn't just step right into every room and take charge as in previous times. It was a concept I would have liked to seen developed more but it was done enough to get the point across for me.

 

I'd definitely like to see more episodes like these going forward, but I'm afraid that the general "meh" outcry by most will force the BBC to go more POP! going forward and lose the more down to Earth and basics approach this season had. Maybe there will be a nice middle ground where Chibnall can have his cake and eat it to, but I'm afraid to a return to the type of storytelling that I've grown tried of and was waiting for the show to rid itself of when Moffat left as showrunner.

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Silva Screen just put the series 11 soundtrack up for pre-order:
http://www.silvascreen.com/silcd1590-doctor-who-series-11/

 

They've also digitally released one of the tracks; "Thirteen". Bought it off iTunes, it's a pretty solid vocal rendition of Akinola's main theme for Jodie's Doctor.

 

Looking forward to January 11th now 😃

 

 

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I thought it would only be a digital release - nice to see it will be on CD. I'll have to decide which version to buy :P

 

Shame it misses the Christmas market though, especially as, according to Silva's description (here), the New Year special's music is already recorded.

 

Thirteen was ok, but I don't recall hearing it or its melody in the show.

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13 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

Thirteen was ok, but I don't recall hearing it or its melody in the show.

 

I mean, this particular rendition I haven't heard before, but the melody itself is the main theme for the Doctor this series. I'm pretty sure it's in nearly every episode.

 

However, it definitely doesn't have the "presence" of previous Doctor themes (it's a lot more subtle), so I can see why you might not recognise it. It's there, it just doesn't make itself known quite as well.

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It's most obvious in the screwdriver building scene

 

On 12/10/2018 at 11:42 AM, Zanobard said:

 

For me, series 1-4.

 

I enjoyed the show post-Tennant, but nowhere near as much (although in retrospect, Smith and Capaldi were miles better than what we have now).

 

Series 1 is awesome, but it does have its clunkers.

 

Series 2-3-4 have the clunkers too, but the success was more on some individual episodes rather than the seasons in general.

 

The ones succesful as a general season storyline are probably series 1, series 5 and series 10, despite the bad episodes of each.

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Sadly, the recent story about Eccleston ranting at a member of catering staff on a train (because he was going to have to wait for a few minutes until they had finished their drinks trolley service to get past them and back to his first-class seat) shows that not every actor who plays the part is very 'Doctor-y' in real life. 

 

Especially disappointing for someone who makes a great deal of his 'ordinary bloke' working-class roots in interviews.     

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This season could've been something greater if they had the familiar series arc that would've bound each episode closer together. I know there have been complaints in the past of Moffat's convoluted arcs going overboard, but the series felt like a continuous story with new challenges, monsters and adventures, one long thread that wove a larger picture and this made the relationships between the Doctor and their companions stronger. 

 

Season 11 is missing that thread, that feeling of inportance that makes us invest in the Doctor's adventures, be intrigued by some sinister plot that creeps its way in each episode.

 

This isn't to say that this season hasn't had its strengths and triumphs, but I get the sense that each of the brilliant components of the show are missing that connective tissue because of the clean slate approach. Hopefully Chibnall will be able to build towards a series arc next year, this season having been more of a reintroduction to the show than anything else.

 

Jodie is great, the cast are great, the production value is great. It's just missing something the previous seasons have had...

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On 12/12/2018 at 12:43 PM, Zanobard said:

 

I mean, this particular rendition I haven't heard before, but the melody itself is the main theme for the Doctor this series. I'm pretty sure it's in nearly every episode.

 

However, it definitely doesn't have the "presence" of previous Doctor themes (it's a lot more subtle), so I can see why you might not recognise it. It's there, it just doesn't make itself known quite as well.

 

Odd, because I noticed some smaller motifs - a more driving motif for when the Doctor is thinking, and one that appeared in Rosa (when Graham realises they have to stay on the bus) and right at the end of It Takes You Away which seems to be a 'Doctor's family' sort of idea. But Thirteen? Nope, not ringing any bells.

 

I was hoping this standalone track was going to be the extended theme heard at the end of episode 1, particularly the 'B' part of the theme which doesn't show up in the opening credits. TBH I coulsd also do without the vocals at the end - it over powers the beautiful string theme.

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Capaldi's theme is the Zimmer version of a Doctor theme, and repeated endlessly on the soundtracks. It's nice enough for what it is, but there's only so much you can do with it, and it shows.

 

As for the new series... I think Whittaker is great, and the writing succeeds in giving here a quirky and distinct persona. The companions are nice enough, too, or at least they have potential - there's just too many of them to really give them a chance to shine, at least without better/more focused writing. In fact, the trio (and the constant need to split the plot into separate threads to give them all something to do) also means too little plot time for the Doctor herself. The stories are mostly on par with Chibnall's previous scripts for the show - not bad, but nothing to write home about, and mostly lacking in something to get the viewer invested in. Too little focus on the Doctor, too little focus on too many characters, no notable arc to bind the stories together or to provide room for some character development, and you end up with a collection of individual stories that never get a chance to draw you in. Demons of the Punjab and, to a considerably lesser extent, Rosa are exceptions because they have scope, and their basic setup and historical background give you something to care about right from the start. In a way, the big emphasis on making a series "for the whole family", with no convoluted arcs (I like those) and no backstory that you "should" see before watching the next episode, resulted in an endless string of monster of the week episodes (and I never liked those). The scores were fine, really, and always appropriate - but they always restrain themselves to merely service what's already there on screen (which, as I just explained, mostly isn't enough). Gold often went beyond that and made the music an important part in what hooked you. Manipulative? Perhaps, but it works, so why should I care?

 

That said, Capaldi's first series was also troubled by a lack of focus due to the Doctor/Clara antagonism, and they ended up being a fine duo in the end. But I half hoped that Graham would lose his cool against Tim Shaw and die as a (direct or indirect) result of it, just to reduce the number of characters the next series has to handle. I'd much rather have more focus on the Doctor and some character development (and backstory) for Yaz than the full set of four characters that constantly get in each other's (and the story's) way.

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On 12/7/2018 at 11:34 AM, StarFox said:

It really is a shame.

Demons of Punjabi, Kerblam, and It Takes You Away are the only good episodes that I've seen. The Woman Who Fell To Earth was actually a decent introduction...just drug a bit.

Jodie not having the screen time to further develop her Doctor is hurting her. She keeps getting lost between the companions and the people they are trying to save. She was probably at her most "Doctory" in "It Takes You Away". 

Thank you for pointing out to me that "It Takes You Away" DID have something good about it.

I was having quite the "what am I watching" vibe at the time...

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It Takes You Away is wonderful. I really like the style of it too.

 

So I watched the finale, and I found it kind of boring. It keeps more or less the "style" that I like of the other episodes, but I just wasn't interested in it. I wonder if it would have been better to reverse the order and put It Takes You Away as the ending. I don't even have a complain that it doesn't feel epic or very grand, or that it isn't much of a real arc or anything (there are no rules saying Doctor Who has to do that). But at least it isn't The Tsuranga Conundrum, which was a case of boring verbal diarrea without visual creativity. I don't like that when they finally take out the neural protective thingies nothing actually happens. They set that up, but there was no consequence. I'd rank it among the lower end of finales like Wedding of River Song, but not as bad as Death in Heaven or Hell Bent.

 

Jodie's cool. She's at her most Doctory when confronting antagonists or potential antagonists, among other things.

 

On 12/14/2018 at 5:45 PM, Bofur01 said:

Capaldi's one's really obvious, isn't it?

 

I liked it here

 

 

 

(alhough it has like two other different parts...)

 

Then he's also used sparingly the This Time There's Three of Us melody in a way not dissimular to the use of The Long Song for Eleven.

 

I like this variation on 12's too

 

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10 hours ago, Brónach said:

It Takes You Away is wonderful. I really like the style of it too.

 

The concept had potential, sure. But the whole thing just seemed like a string of ideas thrown together and handled in the most superficial and cliched fashion. Possibly my least favourite of this series.

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It's my favourite. My least favourite is Arachnids in the UK, which is autopilot in the worst way possible.

 

I'd rank them:

 

1) It Takes You Away

2) Demons in the Punjab

3) Rosa

4) The Witchfinders

5) The Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos

6) The Woman Who Fell To Earth

7) Kerblam!

8 ) The Ghost Monument

9 ) The Tsuranga Conundrum

10) Arachnids in the UK

 

Or something like this. Basically from 7 to below it's the "Brónach dislikes" area. The 1-4 is the "Brónach enjoys" area.

On 12/14/2018 at 9:39 PM, Marian Schedenig said:

I'd much rather have more focus on the Doctor and some character development (and backstory) for Yaz than the full set of four characters that constantly get in each other's (and the story's) way.

 

What I'd personally do from here would be maybe saying goodbye to Graham and Ryan and keep Yaz, or maybe saying goodbye to all them, more or less in the first third of the following series.

 

It's a bit more forgiving than my other idea about having them executed by a villain one after another in front the Doctor, but I woulnd't mind something soft.

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On 12/19/2018 at 10:45 AM, Brónach said:

It's my favourite. My least favourite is Arachnids in the UK, which is autopilot in the worst way possible.

 

I'd rank them:

 

1) It Takes You Away

2) Demons in the Punjab

3) Rosa

4) The Witchfinders

5) The Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos

6) The Woman Who Fell To Earth

7) Kerblam!

8 ) The Ghost Monument

9 ) The Tsuranga Conundrum

10) Arachnids in the UK

 

Or something like this. Basically from 7 to below it's the "Brónach dislikes" area. The 1-4 is the "Brónach enjoys" area.

 

What I'd personally do from here would be maybe saying goodbye to Graham and Ryan and keep Yaz, or maybe saying goodbye to all them, more or less in the first third of the following series.

 

It's a bit more forgiving than my other idea about having them executed by a villain one after another in front the Doctor, but I woulnd't mind something soft.


I like Graham and Yaz, Ryan I could live without (I don't know if it's Tosin Cole's accent that makes his line delivery so flat in a lot of scenes, or if he's just not much of an actor).  

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The latter.

 

(edit) I blame the writers and directors not having much of a grasp of the material.

Where are the writers and directors who truly get DOCTOR WHO? Where are the Richard Martins, the Dougie Camfields, the Peter Moffatts, the Peter Grimwades, the Grahame Harpers, the Michael Briants, the Robert Holmes, the Terrance Dicks?

I know you can't go back, but DW can do better than this, can't it?

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2 hours ago, Stefancos said:

No one seems to have shat more on DW than Moffat though.

Possibly not, Steef, but at least Moffatt wasn't muscleing-in to call-in shows, trying to tell JN-T how to run the programme.

The little shit.

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Eccleston was my first Doctor, so he was that brave soldier!

 

Moffat was also a dick by reversing the destruction of Galifrey.

3 minutes ago, Richard said:

even if we did get to see John Hurt act the younglings off the fucking stage!

 

Both Smith and Tennant are in great form, but Hurt blows them of the screen without even exerting much effort.

 

Jenna Coleman is surprisingly strong in this one.

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3 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Eccleston was my first Doctor, so he was that brave soldier!

...except that in ROSE, he examines his ears, and says "Could be worse" (or something like that) suggesting that he'd regenerated recently.

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Yeah, I'm done.

 

 

That special was absolutely horrendous. They butchered the Daleks, killed off UNIT and doubled down on the crappy dialogue and dull storylines. I tried, I really tried to like this new "direction" the show is going in, but I can't. It's just awful. Jodie's Doctor is the only semi-decent thing about it, but she's just given nothing to work with. And to top it all off, season 12 isn't coming until 2020, which is just plain ridiculous.

 

I really didn't like Moffat's era at the time of airing (much preferred Davies'), but it's looking like a ray of bright fucking sunshine compared to the show now.

 

solemn.gif

 

It breaks my heart to watch the show I grew up with go down a path I can't follow. It could have been so much more.

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@Zanobard has hit it on the head. The only remotely good think about it was that the show had gone back to Raymond Cuisick's original Dalek design, for inspiration.

For anyone who didn't see it, a) you're lucky, and, b) it went, roughly: mind control/"you weren't there, dad"/d.i.y. Dalek/U.N.I.T. is shut down - wtf?/"the fleet's coming!"/"oh, no, it's not!"/death by microwave oven - I shit you not!/"I love you, dad!".

This could have been written by a 14 year-old. The fact that it's written by the chief writer, and show runner, is a FUCKING DISGRACE!!!!!!

If it has any chance at all of not disappearing up its own arse, in 2020, then there has to be a major rethink. Get rid of Chibnall, and employ someone who knows how to run a long-standing, and iconic piece of work. 

Then again, I'm only a fan. Right, Chris?

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*Raises head above parapet*

Always nice to have a proper homicidal nutter of a Dalek. Although I guess we'd better not dwell too much on how the casing of one bodged together from scrapyard bits had flight and missile-firing capabilities, lol.

Could take or leave Ryan's family issues, and not crazy about UNIT seemingly being sacrificed for the sake of a Brexit reference. Apart from those things, it was fun.

*Ducks back down again*

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Gotta say, I loved that episode - most entertaining Christmas episode in a long time.

 

I found the Brexit reference pretty funny and the way the Dalek was used to begin with was pretty clever. Liked the family issue side plot as well, and for a moment I genuinely thought they'd sacrifice him and was rather sad.

 

Miles better than the season finale. And just over a week until we get the score... I can't wait for that.

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Same problems as most of this series, emphasised by the longer running time, the special status and by being contrasted with a Dalek. Too many characters resulting in too many cheaply handled plot strains and too few character moments, cheap resolutions and an overall atmosphere of geekiness over sincerity. As a fan of both RTD's and Moffat's tenure, one thing I could always rely on was the show being anchored on characters and their emotional arcs (with or without strong season arcs), even if the characters were somtimes off (Capaldi's first series) or the stories were running out of steam (at the end of Moffat's era). Why Chibnall, who so successfully handled a continuous story with involving characters and a seriously strong emotional focus on Broadchurch opted for such a loose collection of uninvolving stories and shallow characterisations for Doctor Who is a mystery to me. I hope he reconsiders his approach for S12 (I'd rather have that in 2020 than more of the same sooner). Whittaker's Doctor deserves better.

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I'm finally catching up on Doctor Who and really enjoying it.  In the last few weeks, I've watched all of Season 9 and the two specials following it (River Song and the super silly Doctor Mysterio).  Really good!

 

Listening to the S9 album now, which I got for XXXmas.  That is all, I'll be back once I get through the end of 12, or the beginning of 13 ;)

 

Oh, and Heaven Sent was an all-time great.

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I rather liked how the Dalek was handled overall, including a more believable story of where it came from.

 

Just a week to go now until Akinola's score is released. I haven't looked forward so much to a TV score release in a long time, mainly because of how long it is and therefore likely to actually some some of my favourite bits.

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On 1/2/2019 at 7:20 PM, Sweeping Strings said:

Always nice to have a proper homicidal nutter of a Dalek.

They're not always homicidal mutters, Sweep. Have you seen EVIL OF THE DALEKS?

 

 

24 minutes ago, Sweeping Strings said:

Tom Baker will be on Graham Norton's Radio 2 show tomorrow (10:00 am - 1:00 pm) to talk about 'Scratchman', his new Doctor Who novel. 

Tom Baker is The Doctor!

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