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The Doctor Who Thread.....

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Heaven Sent is my favourite Doctor Who story. Maybe not a very original choice, but it's very meaningful for me.

 

(I still wonder why that one room doesn't reset but I'll try to not to think about it lol)

 

I also think the loss of (maybe justifiably) off-put viewers might have been a necesary bath of humility that allowed series 10 to be.

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5 minutes ago, Brónach said:

Heaven Sent is my favourite Doctor Who story. Maybe not a very original choice, but it's very meaningful for me.

 

(I still wonder why that one room doesn't reset but I'll try to not to think about it lol)

 

I also think the loss of (maybe justifiably) off-put viewers might have been a necesary bath of humility that allowed series 10 to be.

 

Yes, season 9 is probably my favorite of the new series.  Outside of Heaven Sent, you've also got Capaldi's tour-de-force, awe-inspiring performance in the second episode of the Zygon two-parter.

 

But "World Enough and Time / The Doctor Falls / Twice Upon a Time" is just a really special run of episodes to me.

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Capaldi was terrific ... I wasn't crazy about how he was written for part of his debut season, though. I get that they thought 'We haven't had a Doctor who started out spiky and abrasive since Six, let's give that a go!' but ... eh, in something like this I prefer to have a hero I can get behind.

 

After all, if the man with two hearts has seemingly stopped caring where does that leave the rest of us?    

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Oxygen is also really really good. For one, it's a reimagining of zombie tropes that discards what I don't like about zombies (I can't take the corpses seriously), and actually brings back the original relationship of zombi tropes to consumerism. And the conclusion is awesome (with the "fighting the suits" line). The only part I don't like is the throwaway line about "and then capitalism disappeared because of this", which I don't buy and adds nothing.

 

"Our deaths will be... EXPENSIVE". Great Capaldi there.

 

It's quintaessential Doctor Who and demonstrates why we're willing to go through the clunkers until we find the good stuff.

 

Another thing I liked is smart use of location shooting in Smile.

 

18 minutes ago, Sweeping Strings said:

Capaldi was terrific ... I wasn't crazy about how he was written for part of his debut season, though. I get that they thought 'We haven't had a Doctor who started out spiky and abrasive since Six, let's give that a go!' but ... eh, in something like this I prefer to have a hero I can get behind.

 

After all, if the man with two hearts has seemingly stopped caring where does that leave the rest of us?    

 

I have to admit that the stuff like GO AWAY HUMANS did make me laugh. And there was Flatline and Mummy.

 

On the other hand, there was Kill the Moon. Eugh. Can't barely stand it.

 

So I'm in a fun Doctor Who phase now. I blame Jodie's first episode for getting me in this mood. But it's nice. I want to do fanarts and everything.

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On 11/26/2018 at 7:20 PM, pixie_twinkle said:

I think 1982's Black Orchid was the only pure historical after 1960s Who. 

You're absolutely right, pixie.

Apart from one Gallifreyan, two-hearted Time Lord, who's fucking brilliant at cricket, one out-of-time Teran, one Trakenite, one fucking annoying Alzarian, and a time-space ship that resembles something that won't be seen on Earth, for another 30 years, there's nothing science fictiony about BLACK ORCHID! :lol:

 

 

 

 

Ps, I like BLACK ORCHID, a lot.

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There's some nice sideswipes at "big business", in that one.

 

 

 

 

 

55 minutes ago, Brónach said:

I'm in a fun Doctor Who phase now. I blame Jodie's first episode for getting me in this mood. But it's nice. I want to do fanarts and everything.

THE WOMAN WHO FELL TO EARTH is the worst post-regeneration story since THE TWIN DILEMMA.

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Brónach has now discovered the world of audiodramas. Brónach is now completely on her way to total addiction. Brónach will be updated.

 

17 minutes ago, Richard said:

THE WOMAN WHO FELL TO EARTH is the worst post-regeneration story since THE TWIN DILEMMA.

 

you mean since the TV movie.

 

Or maybe, technically, since Day of the Doctor? Cause that one doesn't really work either. The only thing supporting it is cast chemistry.

 

Deep Breath wasn't thought much of at time, either. I had the same "bah" reaction at that one.

 

No, my reaction was more... about the idea of the show in general, than that episode in particular.

 

Time and the Rani is also on the list of "doesn't work". The show hasn't been very good at this, lmao. Although I'm aware of the issues behind the show at times that caused it.

 

As for regeneration stories themselves... they haven't made one I'm crazy about since the great Bad Wolf/Partying of the Ways. The Doctor Falls could have been that one, except they decided to rewrite it for it not to be. And I don't like either End of Time or Time of the Doctor...

 

Wait, no. Night of the Doctor is a good one. I forget that. It still stinks of the unnecesary invention of the War Doctor (John Hurt, we love you, but a Doctor we don't know doesn't work as a celebration of the show), but it shows Moffat can do it. Also great Doctory dialogue in a tiny package. Give the man a miniseries or something.

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2 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

I still think as time goes by people will come around in a big way to Capaldi's entire era.  I think it was really something special.  Especially at the end there where Moffat lays out his raw, emotional conception of why Doctor Who matters.

 

Capaldi was a great Doctor. I think his era mostly gets overshadowed by the immense popularity of Matt Smith at the time.

 

So are people still watching this? Tbh, I don't even remember where I stopped.

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3 minutes ago, KK said:

Capaldi was a great Doctor. I think his era mostly gets overshadowed by the immense popularity of Matt Smith at the time.

 

The show was already downhill during Smith's tennure. The David Tennant Doctor was by far the most popular or modern Who.

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27 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

 

The show was already downhill during Smith's tennure. The David Tennant Doctor was by far the most popular or modern Who.

 

In amount of viewers, the peak was series 4. It got more international shortly after I think. I picked it up right after series 5 finished. I think I saw a trailer for series 6 and I was like "what... what is this thing".

 

Nowadays it has shitty trailers, for some reason.

 

24 minutes ago, KK said:

Tennant is still my favourite. But didn't Doctor Who gain its American popularity and fanbase during the Smith era?

 I think in theory Matt Smith is my Doctor but I don't have a favourite.

 

So these days I say Capaldi, for the sake of variation.

 

31 minutes ago, KK said:

So are people still watching this? Tbh, I don't even remember where I stopped.

When Moffat crashed it into the ground, most likely.

 

You should check It Takes You Away!

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Having caught up with series (insert number, here), I can honestly say that, while it has some good points, it's not really very good, is it?

At best, it offers nice little insights to Whittaker's evolving portrayal of her character, some decent supporting casts (Alan Cumming plays King James with a hint of pink) and a good, and consistent "look", to the show.

At worst, the main four have not gelled, at all. They need to face the EDGE OF DESTRUCTION. The biggest letdown (apart from the - snort - writing), is Walsh, whose facial features never change, whatever line he's saying, or whatever emotion he's trying to convey. While not an absolute disaster, it's definitely the worst first season, of any Doctor. Yes, even 1987 wasn't as bad as this.

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The moon episode is good. What's so bad about it?

 

Matt Smith's seasons generally sucked and he looked like Tarkin at the end of Episode III. They were still better than this season, though. I'd rather watch any of the old seasons. I'm sure they at least have some eye candy.

 

Season 8 is nearly perfect and 9 despite its shortcomings still featured the best pairing of Doctor and assistant I've seen.

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It's a shame because I really like this Doctor they've devised. And again, the constant effort since the introduction of Tennant to differentiate the Doctor from the inmediately previous ones, which always causes dislike at first but it seems to me like the cool thing to do.

 

And I don't want them to Colin Baker yet another Doctor.

 

I don't see season 8 as perfect by any means. However I love the attempt to differentiate Twelve, with the "absent minded proffessor/amnesiac hero/no social skills/not hiding emotions in the same way/being caustic but noticing that deep down he isn't" collection of tropes, and his slow development through his seasons.

 

It seems Chibnall is on this because of his other show, and I appreciate his range, but I would have gone bolder with picking a showrunner. Maybe a solution to this is dropping the dumb "showrunner is president" attitude and hire more cool guest writers. I don't see why a showrunner has to write so many episodes per year or even the Christmas/New Year episode. Focus on churning out something good instead. Moffat fucked things up in  the same way, and DW doesn't really work as an "author series". Get your ass to the Nebulas and Hugos and look for writers and directors who want to do weird things, someone will probably say "yes"...

 

Oh, and maybe bring back Rachel Talalay.

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19 hours ago, Sweeping Strings said:

Capaldi was terrific ... I wasn't crazy about how he was written for part of his debut season, though. I get that they thought 'We haven't had a Doctor who started out spiky and abrasive since Six, let's give that a go!' but ... eh, in something like this I prefer to have a hero I can get behind.

 

After all, if the man with two hearts has seemingly stopped caring where does that leave the rest of us?    

That's exactly why I love his debut season persona. He started off rough. Hardly likable. Something in him was different this time. But look at his arc...he MADE the effort to change into a kind Doctor. Ten or Eleven didn't have that kind of struggle to get through. They were already kind and compassionate. The fact that Twelve made it happen speaks volumes to me as a character. When you fight to become "good".

Just look at the series 8 finale: "Do you think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference?"...DUDE! It was a pleasure seeing him become he always has been: KIND.

Supposedly Six was going to have a similar arc but he was cut short. Could you imagine what the show would be like if each Doctor got to stay as long as originally planned?

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What stinks about series 11 is seeing the wasted potential. There is so much to work with that could make a great show but the writing here has TRULY let  Jodie and crew down. It really is a shame.

Demons of Punjabi, Kerblam, and It Takes You Away are the only good episodes that I've seen. The Woman Who Fell To Earth was actually a decent introduction...just drug a bit.

Jodie not having the screen time to further develop her Doctor is hurting her. She keeps getting lost between the companions and the people they are trying to save. She was probably at her most "Doctory" in "It Takes You Away". 

Hopefully the finale and New Years special rectifies this but I think it's a crime that Thirteen wasn't focused on even just a bit more. That would have gone such a long way.

Then it's going to be almost year before we see series 12. I can't see anyone being excited enough to get the hype going for it then. I fear it's going to become, "Doctor Who Cares" and that is a damned shame.

In the words of Ten, "THEY COULD DO SO MUCH MORE!"

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While I'm not a big fan of Jodie's Doctor (for various reasons, mostly to do with how un-Doctor-y she is) I don't want to see her tenure cut short either, especially if she's going to have a character development arc like Capaldi did. They do need to do something about the writing though, because Chibnall is going to kill the show (at least spiritually) if they keep going in the same manner as series 11.

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@Brónach, Colin Baker is The Doctor... whether you like it, or not! :).

There are at least 3 stone-cold classic stories, in the C. Baker era. Personally, I like his portrayal.

I agree with you about bringing in "better" (italics mine) writers. The one perfect 11th Doctor story, was written by a comedy writer, for cryin' out loud, so it can be done.

As for showrunners  writing stories; it didn't stop Barry Letts from co-creating what is easily a top-3 Classic Who story. RTD didn't hinder Nu Who, either. 

The problem is, since season 30, the programme has been run as a "boys own" club, with distain, and condescension, and this shows absolutely no signs of stopping. It needs someone to run the show who truly knows the show, and not someone who, as a fucking teenager (!), used to muscle-in, on talk shows, in the 80s, trying to tell the producer how to run DOCTOR WHO!

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31 minutes ago, Richard said:

@Brónach, Colin Baker is The Doctor... whether you like it, or not! :).

There are at least 3 stone-cold classic stories, in the C. Baker era. Personally, I like his portrayal.

Oh, Colin is awesome, Colin was never the issue!

 

31 minutes ago, Richard said:

It needs someone to run the show who truly knows the show

I was kind of annoyed at Moffat not understanding Daleks over and over. They're probably not his kind of antagonist.

 

1 hour ago, Zanobard said:

especially if she's going to have a character development arc like Capaldi did.

I kinda have my own ideas of how I would do something like that but the BBC might find it inappropiate

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4 hours ago, StarFox said:

That's exactly why I love his debut season persona. He started off rough. Hardly likable. Something in him was different this time. But look at his arc...he MADE the effort to change into a kind Doctor. Ten or Eleven didn't have that kind of struggle to get through. They were already kind and compassionate. The fact that Twelve made it happen speaks volumes to me as a character. When you fight to become "good".

Just look at the series 8 finale: "Do you think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference?"...DUDE! It was a pleasure seeing him become he always has been: KIND.

Supposedly Six was going to have a similar arc but he was cut short. Could you imagine what the show would be like if each Doctor got to stay as long as originally planned?


I must say, his assertions that kindness is the most important thing in The Doctor Falls and Twice Upon A Time were very moving. 

There are rumours that the Daleks are to return in the New Year's Day special. I hope so, because I'm not sure 'resting' all the classic adversaries for this season was that great an idea and you probably can't TRULY say you're the Doctor until you've faced them or the Cybermen.    

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3 minutes ago, Sweeping Strings said:

I must say, his assertions that kindness is the most important thing in The Doctor Falls and Twice Upon A Time were very moving. 

 

Precisely!

 

Just boil Capaldi's Doctor down to the speech he gives in the Zygon two-parter, and his speech to the Masters in "The Doctor Falls."  Great writing, great performance.

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I don't think 12 started out even remotely unlikable. He was gruff and a bit grouchy, but that felt more Doctory than the previous ones, who were like hyperactive kids with schoolboy crushes on the assistants. 12 was generally more serious.

 

The younger bubbly Doctors feel very wrong in retrospect. This pandering to a younger audience led to the most embarrassing scene in season 8, where Matt Smith calls Clara and asks the audience to give the old guy a chance.

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42 minutes ago, Sweeping Strings said:


I must say, his assertions that kindness is the most important thing in The Doctor Falls and Twice Upon A Time were very moving. 

There are rumours that the Daleks are to return in the New Year's Day special. I hope so, because I'm not sure 'resting' all the classic adversaries for this season was that great an idea and you probably can't TRULY say you're the Doctor until you've faced them or the Cybermen.    

That's bollocks, Sweep, and you know it. Season 7 was a triumph, with nary a Cyberman, nor a Dalek in sight.

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I don't remember anything good from season 7.

 

Maybe Rings of Akhaten? Maybe. I felt very frustrated with the show. Poor Matt.

 

2 hours ago, Sweeping Strings said:

There are rumours that the Daleks are to return in the New Year's Day special. I hope so, because I'm not sure 'resting' all the classic adversaries for this season was that great an idea and you probably can't TRULY say you're the Doctor until you've faced them or the Cybermen.    

 

Given that we have not had a strong Dalek story on TV since 2005, I'd say give them a rest.

 

Some people seem to have a very soft spot for the show even when it's shit, but I'm very annoying and demand better. They're proffesionals, dammit.

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I think the Clara death and resurrection story from series 9 is underrated. A lot of people were annoyed that she was brought back after an episode, but it was really powerful how The Doctor became completely unhinged after she was murdered by a crow.

 

The memory wipe scene in the underrated Hell Bent kicked the crap out of the Rose beach scene. His Anakin-like inability to let go and taking any lengths necessary to get what he wanted was quite poignant. 

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So...I've just rewatched IT TAKES YOU AWAY. 

WHAT THE ACTUAL HELL???!!!

Flesh-eating moths, a giant red balloon light thing, Granny 5, the Solitract (?), the Nexus, and a talking fucking frog?! Have they completely lost the plot???!!!

The only thing good about it was the dad's Slayer t-shirt.

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20 hours ago, Richard said:

That's bollocks, Sweep, and you know it. Season 7 was a triumph, with nary a Cyberman, nor a Dalek in sight.


Bollocks because my opinion differs to yours? Christ, OK then. 

 

Spearhead From Space and Inferno are great, but (for me) The Silurians and Ambassadors Of Death have their longeurs. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Sweeping Strings said:

Bollocks because my opinion differs to yours?

If course not, Sweep! It's just a figure of speech, with no offence meant. I may be bombastic at times, but I don't consider myself to be unkind.

 

6 minutes ago, Sweeping Strings said:

Spearhead From Space and Inferno are great, but (for me) The Silurians and Ambassadors Of Death have their longeurs.

At least THE SILURIANS is miles better than THE HUNGRY EARTH.

The less said about WARRIORS FROM THE DEEP, the better, eh? Not even Ingrid Pitt could save that one.

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13 hours ago, Horner's Dynamic Range said:

I think the Clara death and resurrection story from series 9 is underrated. A lot of people were annoyed that she was brought back after an episode, but it was really powerful how The Doctor became completely unhinged after she was murdered by a crow.

 

The memory wipe scene in the underrated Hell Bent kicked the crap out of the Rose beach scene. His Anakin-like inability to let go and taking any lengths necessary to get what he wanted was quite poignant. 

 

What upsets me is not really the whole concepts in the episode. This episode is again hindered by the format. If it wasn't for the formar, we could also have had more exploration of Gallifrey stuff, its awesomeness, its decay and how the planet is basically almost entirely glassed at this point, and then it would have been awesome. Exploration of environment is one of my favourite things in Doctor Who.

 

Full hour! More imitation of serial structure if necesary! Stop dropping the ball and ignoring interesting environments and ideas and going so fast like nothing matters! It's a recurring problem.

 

Like, remember Wedding of River Song? I would have had an entire episode about the wacky world of the first five minutes. It would be hilarious. It also would be structures in a similar way as Heaven Sent/Hell Bent, with the weird world exploration first and then resolution.

 

Lie of the Land is one of the biggest examples of "lets do nothing with the material" in recent memory, also.

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On 12/6/2018 at 10:11 AM, Richard said:

You're absolutely right, pixie.

Apart from one Gallifreyan, two-hearted Time Lord, who's fucking brilliant at cricket, one out-of-time Teran, one Trakenite, one fucking annoying Alzarian, and a time-space ship that resembles something that won't be seen on Earth, for another 30 years, there's nothing science fictiony about BLACK ORCHID! :lol:

 

 

 

 

Ps, I like BLACK ORCHID, a lot.

Ok, you got me. 🤣

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3 minutes ago, Richard said:

I haven't caught it, yet. Mark Addy any good?

 

He was alright actually, but his character didn't have much to do and he had very little screentime, which was a shame.

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10 hours ago, Richard said:

Agreed. This one I actually liked. It was borderline interesting. The "New Years' Day, 'This Earth is protected' thing", was a bit been-there-done-that, but I'll still watch it. Well, it's better than everything, innit...? :)

 

The Glory Days were.

 

Right now, if they keep up this level of "meh" writing then Doctor Who will be "better than everything" no longer (at least for me). I'll watch the New Years Day special too, but unless there's a serious improvement that might be it for me (especially since they're making us wait until 2020 for series 12).

 

 

...At least we'll always have Ten.

 

smiling.gif

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