Horner's Top Five

[Miz 139]

What's that?

[chs058 0]

A part of sheet music? Don't you know this melody??????

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

4.) The Land Before Time  

The great thing about this score is that every moment is SO good. Picking a favorite track is difficult because every single one is wonderful! Lots of different melodies and lush orchestration, I adore every second of this score.

I agree! A wonderful score.

A part of sheet music? Don't you know this melody??????

Braveheart

Ray Barnsbury-who only knows because he has the sheet music for turmpet

[Figo 2]

What is WRONG with this guy?  How can anyone have such a firm grasp of technique and yet no concept whatsoever of what it means to write an "original" score?  He reminds me of Longfellow's John Alden, in "The Courtship of Miles Standish." Why don't you speak for yourself, John (or in this case, Jim)?  

hmm,Figo,you seem to know lots about classical music,but what else?

K.M.Who knows little about musical techniqes,but,these are not my only field of education or interests,in fact they contradict artistic likings.

What's this about? Didn't I just reference Longfellow? Sheesh, King Mark, you're tough. Another one of those guys who's damn proud he doesn't know much about anything. Just don't project your own ignorance onto me.

You didn't happen to give a closer listen to any of your dad's piano sonatas recently have you, taking into account our previous "discussions?" I thought not.

Figo, sensing a lost cause.

[Trumpeteer 302]

A part of sheet music? Don't you know this melody??????

OK, so it's from Braveheart. But what cue?

[Morn 8]

The theme in the first track! On the bagpipes

[chs058 0]

No, its from the end-credits.

And it's not played by any pipes, but by irish Uilleann-Pipes!

Difficult to find someone to have and play this kind of pipes...

But they sound graet!

[Morn 8]

It's the same theme dammit :?

And I thought it sounded odd for bagpipes but didn't know what else it could be

[chs058 0]

well I think we agree, that some melodies from Horner sound quite similar, so it could als be from Titanic and co.

But the sheet music where I took that line from is from the end credits!!!!

[Morn 8]

Which shares a melody the main titles have.

[Guest]

Okay, okay...

Sorry, A.I.  I was just being a dick.

Is that better?

Hey no problem man, I wasn't offended by what you said at all.

[Uni 306]

Wouldn't dream of sitting out on another Horner discussion....

5) Krull - For the sheer scope of it, and for the fact that he pounded it out in a very short time while suffering from some still-undisclosed illness. Epic, heroic, and (for the time, and him), very original.

4) Braveheart - Actually, this one ties with the next (Apollo 13). I don't understand the problem some people have with this score; I've always found it stirring, passionate and profound (like the movie itself).

3) Apollo 13 - Supporting one of the best American films of the '90's, this one never fails to move me. The perfect accompaniment to the perfect film - and I don't know about peddles vs. figures, but this is one of my favorite end title suites the guy ever did.

2) Star Trek II - His first big-screen outing, and still one of his best. It has the advantage of standing beyond the reach of the usual "Horner=plaguerism" debate, since it was his first and since it departed so brilliantly from the tack Goldsmith took with the first ST picture (another ingenious score, of course; I'm only saying Horner didn't take the easier road of following precedence). It also established him firmly as an extended-cue prodigy.

1) Glory - I watched this movie again the other day, for the first time in years....and I was blown away, both by the film and the unbelievable score that takes it to an entirely new level. One example: watch when Matthew Broderick, sitting on his horse, takes a moment alone to look out to sea and consider the fact that this is likely the last day of his life. No words....just an expression of courage battling with the burden of truth, and music that wraps both up in the embrace of one of the most profound themes ever written for film (this is the one that puts him in league with Williams). Absolutely beautiful.

Some runners up that deserve honorable mention:

- Willow - Yes, I struggled with this one. It came down to choosing the better fantasy score....but it could easily have been counted with those above.

- The Rocketeer - For a score that so blatantly violates the edict of originality, I sometimes wonder that it's so popular - but it shouldn't be all that surprising. This is a marvelous piece of work....and who really cares that it's constructed out of leftovers from his body of work in the 80's? Hey, if he threw it together from parts out of old Tangerine Dream and Queen scores, then we'd have a problem.

- Searching for Bobby Fischer - One of Horner's oft-overlooked gems.

- Legends of the Fall

- Field of Dreams

- The Spitfire Grill

As for Titanic....a good and appropriate score for a great movie, but perfect? Oh, please. I admit the listening experience has been tainted considerably by Celine Dion's crooning the thing to death, but even in the early days this never struck me as one of James's standout performances. It fits, it does what it ought to (and I'll even allow for a little more than that), then it goes home at the end of the day. It just can't compare to the works listed above - and to say Williams - can't - match - it!?!?! *deep breath* Well, I suppose hyperbole has long been a companion to this particular story. After all, they once called the ship itself unsinkable....

- Uni

[Ricard 2,242]

4) Braveheart - Actually, this one ties with the next (Apollo 13).  I don't understand the problem some people have with this score

I don't know about others, but I find it extremely repetitive, boring and pretentious

The Rocketeer - For a score that so blatantly violates the edict of originality, I sometimes wonder that it's so popular - but it shouldn't be all that surprising.  This is a marvelous piece of work....and who really cares that it's constructed out of leftovers from his body of work in the 80's?

How many Horner scores aren't constructed out of leftovers from his body of work in the early 80s? (which is something I don't have a problem with, except for Aliens -where absolutely nothing is new-, in my opinion Horner's worst score along with Braveheart -sorry!)

BTW, Rocketeer is definitely on my Top 5 list

[Uni 306]

I don't know about others, but I find it extremely repetitive, boring and pretentious

Y'know what? Here's an example of an opinion with which I disagree personally, and yet can understand completely. It does visit the same ground many times over, and is less thematically varied than many of his other works. I can see where, if it doesn't get you just right, it would become trite and overrated. I guess....it got me just right, that's all. :wink2:

That's where defining "Top 5" comes in, I think. Best, or favorite? There's a big difference. Someone's "best" may fail to move you, while sometimes you favor a work that's less-than-perfect technically or artistically. I took this polling as a Favorites list. As for his Best....I'd have to rethink.

How many Horner scores aren't constructed out of leftovers from his body of work in the early 80s? (which is something I don't have a problem with, except for Aliens -where absolutely nothing is new-, in my opinion Horner's worst score along with Braveheart -sorry!)

Not many....although I might argue against the words "based on" or "constructed". Most of his scores have original foundations; they just tend to be decorated with the same affectations, the same way people move to different houses but hang the same pictures on the wall. With Horner, it's something I don't have a problem with, either - especially since I like so many of his "pictures."

For the record, I also consider Aliens to be one of the least of his efforts (I hesitate to say "worst" - it's not all that bad). It fit the movie, but no, it didn't do much in the way of groundbreaking, other than to give marketing people a quick fix for teasers over the next fifteen plus years. I also need to have a long talk with him about the Katchaturian thing, but we've been here before....

BTW, Rocketeer is definitely on my Top 5 list

Something I know about you, and an idea that has a lot to recommend it. Actually, anyone who's a Horner fan should like this one; it's a Greatest Hits compilation all in one package, and easily done well enough to justify and excuse revisiting old haunts. The first two tracks make for great goosebump fodder.

- Uni

[Trumpeteer 302]

For the record' date=' I also consider [i']Aliens to be one of the least of his efforts. ... I also need to have a long talk with him about the Katchaturian thing, but we've been here before....

What's the Katchaturian thing? I'm anxious to know.

[Crowe T Robot 0]

Top 5 Horner:

1. KRULL

2. STAR TREK II/III

3. FIELD OF DREAMS

4. THE LAND BEFORE TIME

5. THE ROCKETEER

[ocelot 508]

I actually like Horner, but Titanic????? I thought it was an awful score. I was so looking forward to it and the day it came out I rushed and got it, listened to it, listened to it again, and again... and just shook my head. Really! The song is very nice and all, but the score is embarrasing.

Here's my list, in no particular order.

Aliens, Apollo 13, Braveheart, Legends of the Fall, Willow

I also think George Fenton is a better composer than Horner. He can compose circles around him (notes too)

[Trumpeteer 302]

except for Aliens -where absolutely nothing is new-' date=' in my opinion Horner's worst score along with Braveheart -sorry!)

[/quote']

Hmm....now I may not be well-studied in Horner's music, but the music for Aliens seemed pretty new to me. Nothing from his previous scores sounded like that. And pretty inventive. Like I said before, some of the techniques he used in his orchestrations greatly added to the film's mood and tension.

The military percussion is well-worn, but everything just seems so wonderful. Of course, he's used a lot of the stuff in future scores, which taints those scores.

[Ricard 2,242]

Hmm....now I may not be well-studied in Horner's music, but the music for Aliens seemed pretty new to me. Nothing from his previous scores sounded like that. And pretty inventive.

8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O

Of course, he's used a lot of the stuff in future scores, which taints those scores.

Nope, all the stuff in Aliens (aka 'the non-score') comes from his previous scores. To me Aliens is the most insulting 'cut-and-paste' job in film music history. It's been like that since that sad night in 1986 when I played the brand-new LP for the first time. Sorry!

[Trumpeteer 302]

Hey, I agree. In the film, it is a very bad editing job. But I still think the score is great fun to listen to.

I guess Ricard is trying to tell me to take another listen to his pre-Aliens scores. Will do.