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Will John Williams be remembered mainstream in 2100?

Mainstream remembrance?  

55 members have voted

  1. 1.

    • Yes
      43
    • No
      12


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1 hour ago, W0$ said:

Are you seriously suggesting that music history curriculums should teach John Williams instead of Beethoven and Mozart? John Williams' contribution to the field of instrumental music is not greater than those men from centuries ago, regardless of whether you can hum more John Williams than Beethoven or Mozart. Teach the classical founders in school, but encourage the students to discover the contemporary masters on their own. 

Why not teach him along side them. John has a legitimate place though this comparison of classical music and film music  needs to stop. Film music isn't just an extension of classical music it is much more than that. 

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Jurassic Shark. Yes but the foundation of music is the foundation of music ie. 20th century theory doesn't "build on" classical theory. It's the same theory. It's not linear, it always exists.

 

So you have to start somewhere, I agree. There's no definite problem beginning with classical theory. It's just best to start with the most modern musical theory (collective theory of all eras, that's what classical theory was back in that age, it just stopped developing) and to teach students music from all these eras (classical and especially more prolifically, modern music,) if modern music is so "approachable" like you said--most music has been, it's an innate quality of music. Tons of brilliant approachable works like Beethoven's were written in the 1900s that have paralleled and surpassed his contribution to base musical knowledge. We don't ever learn about these things, that's the whole problem! It's circular, and we learn to love and worship classical composers like Beethoven even though the likes of them are being born every day now. Why don't we hear about them? The education system. The elitist ideology, which is, there's no money in teaching but the base you need to get away with. The media, the internet, doesn't need to recognize these people. We're born into a world of love and respect for classical, because it caught on for everyone, and ALLL the thousands geniuses of today and yesterday who were always poor and unrecognized, who developed mathematical music models and, some you can even learn about scientific theories, never get anything written down because the schools didn't want them, is why we never develop our theories more. Our "classical theory" has no history anymore, 2 centuries of more compositional genius than ever seen, most-completely rejected, and there have been numerous John Williams and potential masters out there. I've seen them, and I've read the real music books on their ideas. Classical theory can get you learning like it could for anyone during the classical period, but fact is, if you're after real musical knowledge, them, even the Romantic era theories, are simply obsolete.

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23 minutes ago, Borodin said:

Jurassic Shark. Yes but the foundation of music is the foundation of music ie. 20th century theory doesn't "build on" classical theory. It's the same theory.

 

Let's not argue about semantics. 20th century techniques are often referred to as an extension of classical harmony.

 

23 minutes ago, Borodin said:

Beethoven even though the likes of them are being born every day now

 

I think you're wrong in this assessment.

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Yes, and I disagree with that idea entirely. The 20th and 21th century are the most important in foundation, as I just mentioned above--please read if you can ^ The reason music theory has evolved so far to this day, far surpassing the effectiveness and ease of classical theory, some things I think you should finally research yourself, is because real music and mathematics professionals for centuries collaborated all of these eras into a much more revolutionary and eye-opening base theory today, and modern music IS at the root of this theory because it's closer to the root of music than we've ever gotten so far: Traditionalists have always had it backwards. Our musical ideas, collectively, today are getting closer and closer to scientific discernment, not further. But they're not where the money and schooling are, they will scrape the bottom of professional discovery and teach what is convenient, just ask many professors. In 200 years, schools will likely be teaching mostly today's theories, if hopefully we're still here.

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Well music theory is music theory, we're far ahead of 17th century theory but we're still always discovering and reworking it. Because music theory is not an authoratative/dogmatic curiculum for school that gives you little room for interpretation and discovery, but a real scientific base of discovery, you need to learn these things from experts and I can pm you some of the best books on the subject of theory by scholars, musicians, mathematicians, something you won't get in school if you just want a teacher who will talk to you and give you grading: If you don't mind teaching yourself, you will always find a better (modern-scientific) education outside of school, reading all the real material. If you want a teacher, they will do what they're paid to do.

 

You can find a lot of these historical and theoretical textbooks all referencing our collective scientific discovery of music theory on Amazon. Please check out some of my recommendations, I have to look through my books again and do research on them, as you'll realize they've all been closely connected. All of these scholars are collaborative but the newer the scholar they're the one always building on the previous's ideas in their individual direction, and presenting this as the latest "compilation" or perspective of the past musical theories. This is how it always works--it's not the dogmatic school curiculum. ie. private professors teaching you have their own authoritative spin. We say something is a "theory," what we mean by that is a certain group of experts wrote books and papers and the latest one takes the rest in and establishes for us their humble, expert, nevertheless, revolutionary views. At university, these theories instead are dogmatic and authoritative, not what you find in a real education. So feel free to really start learning this stuff and pm me, and I'm hesitant on here to declare one textbook pinnacle because there are so many in reference to each other, but I certainly would put them over any classical theory textbook that is so outdated, difficult and stumps your learning of what music actually is.

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I think John Williams belongs to a whole new category of masters simply because film wasn't something in the 17th century. 

If someone invents the mlif in the future, we'll have future mozarts and beethovens doing their thing and being awesome and cool to future generations. Music preservation becomes really important. I'm actually saddened by how Williams' Star Wars scores are being preserved, and now they're in the hands of Disney... Ugh! I'm pretty sure 40 years later we'll see sth like War Stars and ppl will say it's the new classic. 

 

I'm curious, is Mozart and Beethoven still relevant today? Or are they more like Galileo or Plato or Yoda (lol), powerful and strong, but not around anymore.

 

Williams' music has penetrated pop culture so deeply that I don't think he'll ever be forgotten. Star Wars alone might convince ppl from 2070 to label it the Ring Cycle for the modern age or something. But by 2070, is the Ring Cycle still relevant? 

 

On Beethoven's 5th

Me: JW Cello Concerto > Beethoven's 5th

The World: Beethoven's 5th > JW Cello Concerto

 

or

Me: JW Cello Concerto > Beethoven's 5th

The World: Let It Go > Beethoven's 5th

 

IMG_1299.GIF

 

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4 minutes ago, A Ghost From Highwood said:

 

I'm curious, is Mozart and Beethoven still relevant today? Or are they more like Galileo or Plato or Yoda (lol), powerful and strong, but not around anymore.

 

Very observant of you to notice that these are indeed all dead.

 

;)

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@Borodin Stop making assumptions about what others know or what music they listen to. It's only natural for an artist of any stripe or walk of life to take the elements and building blocks of what came before.

 

No one is saying we can't look to contemporary composers for good music. I happen to enjoy the music of composers from the last century onwards, but I'd never dismiss the historical/cultural significance of where these newer composers gained their knowledge. 

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15 hours ago, A Ghost From Highwood said:

 

On Beethoven's 5th

Me: JW Cello Concerto > Beethoven's 5th

The World: Beethoven's 5th > JW Cello Concerto

 

or

Me: JW Cello Concerto > Beethoven's 5th

 The World: Let It Go > Beethoven's 5th

 

 

Aayyyy let's go, another cello concerto fan. :rock2:

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12 hours ago, Arpy said:

@Borodin Stop making assumptions about what others know or what music they listen to. It's only natural for an artist of any stripe or walk of life to take the elements and building blocks of what came before.

 

No one is saying we can't look to contemporary composers for good music. I happen to enjoy the music of composers from the last century onwards, but I'd never dismiss the historical/cultural significance of where these newer composers gained their knowledge. 

I think what brought me to JW's music in the first place is his more traditionalist sound. I remember anxiouly waiting in line for The Force Awakens thinking it's a giant 'f*** you' to Hans Zimmer and Friends. But then roughly a year later I found myself transitioning from The Dark Knight score, Holst's The Planets and Tchaikovsky's Nutcracker Suite to Williams' The Five Sacred Trees. The mystical/mythical aspect of The 5 Sacred Trees and how it connects to the sound is amazing. The environmentalism context of it, the reduced score, the entire experience of discovering music written closer to my birth date was emotionally satisfying, because music isn't just Let It Go and Shake It Off, it's so much more that people who argue about traditional harmony vs the modernist approach could have their lives/work/family built on this seemingly endless conflict....

 

TL;DR

John Williams, everything he writes is amazing. If even JW won't go gown as the Beethoven of the 2100s, then who will? I just hope it won't be Elsa and Tay Tay.

5 hours ago, Will said:

 

Aayyyy let's go, another cello concerto fan. :rock2:

giphy.gif cuz we are the avengers 😎

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