'War' score clips online!

[Jeshopk 8]

I think it's good. But the nature of the music will hold a lot of listeners at a safe distance. Everyone says how great 'CEo3K' is, but probably only the Straussian finale.

Blasphemy. No. No. No. No. No.

CE3K is brilliant from beginning to end.

The non melodic stuff is the real guts of Williams' work. Most movies are conflict oriented, with a little resolution in between and at the end. To love only music describing resolved emotions and orderly situations is to ignore the poetry that encapsules all human feeling, including FEAR, CHAOS, MANIA! If not for these scores, Williams would be the fluffy composer, and the composer who never explored beyond the 19th century.

[publicist 4,643]

Williams' writing is some of the most clever, crafted, organized and crystalline you can find today.

Sorry, THAT's nonsense. It may apply to parts of Williams scores, but certainly not wholesale.

To say John Williams writes 'well crafted' scores..huzzah! It's like congratulating my baker for making cakes sweet. But it has to taste good, too. He's a trained composer, so i expect no less. But you can't argue that it's uninspired(read: he repeats himself heavily when writing busy, multiple-layered action music, if you like that better)

And apart from that i clearly referred to other films than 'WotW'. 'Disorganized' and 'chaotic' are terms which very well can be applied to technically well written music. And of course i don't really like it, that's not something i have to accept, i know it.

So, in one sentence, you think he's writing good action music, i don't. But these words above really prove nothing more than mine.

And, apart from that, I think that's a strange comment... I always thought the exact opposite: the rapid-fire Avid editing style of nowadays action movies has produced some of the most streamlined, poor and unadventurous writing

Noisy is noisy. I referred to movies, which often are loud to the point of being obnoxious. Of course the Zimmerhansmarschmusik isn't even in the same ballpark, technically. But Williams very well knows that his music isn't going to be heard much under all the spectacle, and he treats it as a kind of 'necessary evil' , IMHO.

[Jeshopk 8]

He's a trained composer, so i expect no less.

I expect most trained composers to write music that is not well crafted at all.

[publicist 4,643]

@Jeshopk:

I never said something blasphemic regarding that score. I just think it's opportune to say that most people like their music tonal...and melodic. This hasn't changed much since the atonal revolutions of Schönberg, Webern and so forth. I only have to look through the threads here to see that a lot of posters are more fond of Williams in a more traditional mode.

I expect most trained composers to write music that is not well crafted at all.

Well, let's say trained composers who had a prolific career...and thus, can be expected to bring a certain level of musicality to their writing. I expect that from Williams as much as i expect it from Laurence Rosenthal or Bruce Broughton.

[Jeshopk 8]

I never said something blasphemic regarding that score. I just think it's opportune to say that most people like their music tonal...and melodic. This hasn't changed much since the atonal revolutions of Schönberg, Webern and so forth. I only have to look through the threads here to see that a lot of posters are more fond of Williams in a more traditional mode.

And my blasphemy comment was meant to be ironic and tongue in cheek. Of course we're all entitled to opinions. I don't know how many of us really need Williams to write traditional melodic/harmonic music for it to be enjoyable. I think most of us really do enjoy what he ACTUALLY writes, which is BOTH melodic and non melodic alternately.

The Minority Report poll shows that 86 percent of people here like that score, and it is mostly non melodic. I think people who dislike nonmelody dislike it with a vengeance not felt by likers of both styles. A case of a very vocal minority, lead by Joe in Ar, is perhaps the reason you detect such a wide preference for his melodies.

I believe, the tonal melodies are really great, but can get boring if there's too much of them in a score. The best scores have a balance of both, styles, but not every movie demands that.

CE3K is pretty balanced between modern and traditional, but ET is much more traditional. Williams himself said that the ET score is not as much of a personal achievment as CE3K. So I support his artistic motivations when these modern scores come out. He's reaching higher through the writing of BOTH traditional and modern music.

[Hlao-roo 389]

War!

[Jeshopk 8]

I would actually credit spielberg for having Morgan Freeman scream that at the opening of the prologue in the film.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Actually I take it as a homage to the original film which had a very similar narration.

Williams himself said that the ET score is not as much of a personal achievment as CE3K.

really, I loved to see a link or proof of that.

and Jesse its JoeinAr, not Joe in Ar.

and finally regarding Close Encounters of the Third Kind, we actually agree, as I think of myself as this movie and score's champion. I've always thought the score was brilliant, all parts of it. Even the non melodic parts.

[publicist 4,643]

really, I loved to see a link or proof of that.

But you can find that in multiple interviews...even i remember that and i'm not a big capacity on Williams interviews. I suspect it may be found in the early Bozereau 'Soundtrack' interview made around the time of 'Jurassic Park'. Something like: 'i think CE3K may be a little closer to my heart'.

[Jeshopk 8]

I've always thought the score was brilliant, all parts of it. Even the non melodic parts.

Hmm. Then it boggles me that you do not enjoy Williams' further exploration of his non melodic side in Minority Report and other scores. It seems WOTW is very kindred to CE3K from the clips.

I will dig up that link for you.

[Jeshopk 8]

http://johnwilliams.jw-music.net/index2.html"]http://johnwilliams.jw-music.net/index2.htmlPressed for his own favorite, Williams says, "When people ask that question, I usually say 'Close Encounters of the Third Kind.' It was a picture with very little dialogue, so a major part of holding the audience's interest fell to the composer."

http://www.filmmusic.cz/hans_zimmer.htm"]http://www.filmmusic.cz/hans_zimmer.htm

Total Film: So which is your favourite riff of all?

John Williams: It's hard to say that, but I always answer Close Encounters. I don't know why, but I like that.

There's another one somewhere in which he specifically says he almost had the chance to do something as special as CE3K in ET, but not quite.

I am having trouble finding it now, but I will continue the search.

[Jacck 23]

I completely back Jeshopk... Williams' writing is some of the most clever, crafted, organized and crystalline you can find today. Maybe it takes a particular type of person to see it , but from my point of view - that statement is more than true.

The psychology behind music is a very interesting thing - it is why I believe there is no such thing as right or wrong in music. While one person may find one piece of music to be absolutely vile - others may find it absolutely brilliant! We all interpret music in different ways - it's entirely possible (for example) that a particular piece of music triggers a memory/emotion that is somewhat negative that could ultimately cause someone to dislike a piece of music... Our brains sub-consciously process so many factors when listening to a piece of music, that it's no doubt we all react to music differently.

Take Minority Report, for example, some of us strongly dislike it, where others of us (like myself) believe it to be one of John William's best... I find psychomusicology a fascinating subject.

[Jacck 23]

Also... just wanted to say - It seems clear to me the reason why John Williams re-uses these ideas is because he likes them! If you compose a motif that you like - why would you not use it a couple of times? And he is, after all, John Williams - his musical judgement certainly isn't lacking LOL

He is only, after all - human...

[jamesie 1]

Why not use a motif over again in another movie? Because that's like giving your current best friend a really good piece of chocolate and then coming back the next day and stealing it and giving it to your new best friend.

[Jacck 23]

Why not use a motif over again in another movie? Because that's like giving your current best friend a really good piece of chocolate and then coming back the next day and stealing it and giving it to your new best friend.

Go to the corner, and stay there until I say otherwise. :roll:

[jamesie 1]

[King Mark 3,631]

Anyways,to me the soundclips don't sound like Minority Report.MR is trying to be more"contemporary",imitating Zimmer in an orchestral way.Thw WotW soundclips sond more otherwordly.

K.M.

[Morlock 11]

Anyways,to me the soundclips don't sound like Minority Report.MR is trying to be more"contemporary",imitating Zimmer in an orchestral way.Thw WotW soundclips sond more otherwordly.

K.M.

One question: Have you ever heard a Hans Zimmer score?

Morlock- who can't possibly begin to imagine how anyone can hear Zimmer in these clips

[Saxbabe 28]

I think KM meant MR, not the WOTW clips, were imitating Zimmer.

No matter, the comment induces this from me.

Greta

[King Mark 3,631]

I'm saying MR sort of sounds like Media Ventures stuff,only more well composed. I feel the same indifference listening to it.

Williams at the summit of his melodic action/adventure scoring=Amazing Stories,The Mission.

K.M.

[King Mark 3,631]

Refugee Status sounds like Anakin's Betrayal

Return to Boston has some of thos brass chords from Battle of the Heroes

K.M.

[SturgisPodmore 0]

Refugee Status sounds like Anakin's Betrayal

My thoughts exactly.

But do you really think anyone from Media Ventures could write something like the PreCrime motif?

I like what I've heard so far and I expect a great score here. I think what we will be listening to this score for years from now will be the emotional cues, not the action, at least not the action we've heard so far. It's pretty standard of nowadays Williams. The emotional parts will be what makes the score great if the action cues are all like what we've heard so far, IMHO. The action cues we've heard so far are nice to hear in the film, listen to once or twice, but then forget, or at least not listen to regularly.

I would actually credit spielberg for having Morgan Freeman scream that at the opening of the prologue in the film.

glad to see Sturgis posting again.

Thanks, glad to be back. 8O

~Sturgis

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Anyways,to me the soundclips don't sound like Minority Report.MR is trying to be more"contemporary",imitating Zimmer in an orchestral way.Thw WotW soundclips sond more otherwordly.

K.M.

One question: Have you ever heard a Hans Zimmer score?

Or A Williams one for that matter!

j/k

[King Mark 3,631]

The action music in the clips seems better than MR even is it's the same "style".More powerful or something.Maybe it's the heavy brass chords or the thick strings.Williams seems to have pulled all stops for this.

I even think JoeinAr will agree to this

K.M.

[Bowie 45]

Also guys don't forget that this is possibly the last action score Williams will ever write. Next up is Memoirs of a Geisha and Vengeance, which both would require some sort of ethnic and (ironically) romantic theme and development, then Indiana Jones 4 will be Williams attempting old Williams, that is, all action music MUST be melody-driven, otherwise it wouldn't suit the main character fanfare. After that, who knows -- Sub-Mariner, The Uniter (Abe Lincoln Biopic), The Rivals... none of these suggest Williams will or should ever need to return to his currently hot boiling pot of tense, wavering ostinatic strings, brass cluster hits and pounding timpani...

[SturgisPodmore 0]

I wouldn't miss it all that much.

~Sturgis

[Spacerocker 0]

I like what I've heard so far.