The Fellowship of the Ring COMPLETE RECORDINGS 3CD set

[Incanus 5,714]

I tried to put here alink to Moviemusic.com MB where Doug Adams answers few questions concerning the FOTR release but the link did not work. I try to direct you to the page in the next reply.

Marian do you really think the themes are not important? I'm appalled 8O

Themes are everything!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Your link does not work...DAMMIT!

[Incanus 5,714]

Well Doug has answers to many but not to all questions.

The link does not work for some reason.

Go to the http://www.moviemusic.com and Message board, Movie Soundtracks where the is a thread called LOTR Package update.

Doug has few answers to the questions people have been asking about the FOTR release.

[Incanus 5,714]

Did youy find the page yet Steef?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Thank you, it answered some questions for me.

I especially like that fact that this will be iPod-friendly.

But I repeat, is there really any reason why we need October this year?

[Incanus 5,714]

I would not care much for October myself either 8O but alas I have an important thesis to write for my class in university and I have only October to do it as I have to present it in November so the month is kind of vital to me

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

Marian do you really think the themes are not important?  I'm appalled 8O  

Themes are everything!

I don't think that. But I strongly disagree that themes are everything. Goldsmith's POTA is one of the milestones of film scoring, and it doesn't have themes (or if it does, they're not very noticeable). One of the best scores to come out during the last decade is The Matrix, and the two or three themes in it hardly stand out. And you just discovered Images.

A movie like LOTR does need a thematic score. But as a general rule, themes aren't everything. You can write extremely lousy scores with great themes.

Marian - who stands by that.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You can write extremely lousy scores with great themes.

Marian - who stands by that.

Name examples (and don't mention all Horner scores, that's lame)

[Incanus 5,714]

We should not argue about the importance of themes here in LOTR thread. Some just like themes more than others. This subject could be perhaps continued in the General discussion.

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

Name examples (and don't mention all Horner scores, that's lame)

Not all Horner scores, but plenty of the earlier ones have wonderful themes and simple orchestrations, which makes them hold up less well after repeated listens (e.g. WOK). They're still good scores, but they could be better if they had more than just themes.

Supergirl has a great main theme but never excited me that much as an entire score, I prefer listening to the concert version of the theme.

Superman has some great themes, and some of Williams' best cues, but the repetitive action music in the second half gets on my nerves.

Marian - too lazy to start a separate thread.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Listened to Supergirl last friday.

It surpises me how good it actually is.

I agree on Superman, several great themes, a brilliant first half, but near the end it just looses momentum.

Everything up untill The Fortress Of Soltitude is pure gold, after that they are a few very good cues, but it's like listening to a whole different score.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I agree on Superman. I love the first part. Once Clark gets to Metropolis it sorta takes a dive.

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

That's pretty what I think of Superman, yes.

Still, I got side-tracked, and wrote some things above which I don't really believe, trying to prove something that's not really true, and beside the point anyway.

Supergirl is probably a better score than I remember it to be, and my comment above could probably better interpreted as an argument for themes rather than against them.

I never said themes are a bad thing. I love a great theme, and many of my favourite scores owe much to their themes. I can't really think of lousy scores with great themes, but I still think it's possible to write them. I guess it shows one thing: It's easier to write a "good", enjoyable score when you have a theme, because even with simple standard arrangements you can produce nice music with it. On the other hand, it's difficult to write something as enjoyable when you don't have a big theme. After all, a theme gets your attention, and makes it easier to listen to music - which I assume is also a reason why so many noteworthy scores rely heavily on themes.

But even scores that are famous for their themes usually need much more to make the themes work. Take Superman - famous for it's main title march, but is the theme itself (not the love theme, but the two fanfare themes) really that great? Play it on a piano, without the full orchestral arrangement, and it will sound pretty bland. Take Jaws - great theme, but the orchestration plays a major part in that.

The Omen is famous for it's theme, but what's so special about it? The Ave Satani theme is servicable, but not that special basically. The family theme is nice but cheesy. But what Goldsmith does with the themes makes the score one of his best. The Hunt, one of my favourite tracks from The Final Conflict, is so great because of the theme. Yet again, the theme itself isn't that great, it's the way it's used that makes it special.

Marian - who likes Dragonheart for its themes, but thinks it could be much better still if it had more than just themes (e.g. less synths).

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Anyway, to get back on topic.

The DVD will possibly be a Dolby Digital 5.1 24 bit release.

though not as good as an SACD or DVD-A this can potentially sound stunning, especially since they should be able to use a far higher bitrate then on a DVD that carries a regular film. Since there is a lot more room for it.

Anyone here know how high the bitrate can be if you have to fit around 3 to 3 and a half hours of music and possible some menu's and screen caps?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Still, I got side-tracked, and wrote some things above which I don't really believe, trying to prove something that's not really true, and beside the point anyway.

I do that all the time, mostly with any comment connecting to classical music.

Supergirl is probably a better score than I remember it to be, and my comment above could probably better interpreted as an argument for themes rather than against them.

I had not listened to it for a long time, and I was surprised how rich the score sounded, and how huge (was this recorded in a church)

Believe me there is definsatly more to it then just the theme.

But even scores that are famous for their themes usually need much more to make the themes work. Take Superman - famous for it's main title march, but is the theme itself (not the love theme, but the two fanfare themes) really that great? Play it on a piano, without the full orchestral arrangement, and it will sound pretty bland. Take Jaws - great theme, but the orchestration plays a major part in that.

OK i understand what you are saying now, and I pretty much agree.

If Jaws would have been nothing but dum-dum-dum it would have been boring as hell (though ironically that's the only aspect of the score that normal folk remember)

[Incanus 5,714]

I think Doug Adams has been very forthcoming with his information about the release but because of the strict policies to keep things secret he can't reveal us all he knows. He is very apologetic about it everytime he posts to the MBs. Still I like that we have some one as a sort of middle man between us and Howard Shore and his music. Doug answers post and question to best of his ability which probably would not happen e.g. in Williams' case (no aide would answer us if we even knew who tha person would be).

Still I find that 2 months of waiting is very agonizing. I even wonder do they plan to release the score every where at the same time? Finland tends to be little behind in the releases now and then (TTT soundtrack was released here 2 days before the rest of Europe for some reason). I just hope they are not going to delay it any longer.

And if only there would be some detailed description of the Box.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yeah I agree.

Doug Adams seems to be a reliable source of info.

It's a pity that he can't say any more, but it's good that he's also clear not knowing not not being able to talk about certain details yet.

Though i'm interested in the way this set will look (and if the leatherbound OST editions are an indication they will look fabulous), i'm even more eagerly awaiting technical specs about how the music will be presented.

Damn, I wanna see a tracklist soooo badly

[Incanus 5,714]

I think the decision to release the three scores separately was economic. A single set would have cost too much for an average concumer (though I would have bought it no questions asked ) Now the price is lower but I think the cost of the three sets together will be higher than if it would have been just one complete set.

But the price does not matter that much. The music is worth it. But the wait has been long as this release was promised as early as 2003 (I remember Soundtrack.net interview). Still it's not 20 years as with the Old SW Trilogy scores. These are great times for film music fans. So many old gems are being rereleased. Some of course do not think so (like Thor on FSM MB).

FOTR is my favorite of the three scores but as they all are part of a large whole I have to say I like the whole composition very much.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yeah a 9 or 10 CD set would have ment a considerable investment in a single go.

Devided in 3 it becomes more affordable for a lot of people.

Also, if they had released all 3 scores in one go we would have had a MASSIVE amount of music to digest, all at once.

Now we get something a little more bitesize (though still a big meal).

And once we get FOTR we can start looking forward to the other 2 and speculate.

In the long run it will be more fun this way.

[TheTennisBallKid 17]

Based on this:

All this said, the tracks on the FOTR set are representative of the musical breaks. Tracks end where silence occurs, which means they’re mostly on the lengthier side. I won’t tell you the exact breakdown, but it looks like there will be over 30 tracks split between the three discs. Personally, I think it’s great. This is not a sound-bite type of score. The beauty of the composition is in its shape and flow.

My guess at a track list:

The Fellowship Of The Ring:

Disc One:

#1. "The Prophecy" (2:12)*

#2 "Prologue" (7:10)**

#3 "Concerning Hobbits" (8:52)**

#4 "A Night To Remember"(1:26)

#5 "A Long Expected Party" (1:45) (source music)

#6 "The Sackville-Bagginses!"(1:43)

#7 "Farewell Bilbo, Hello Trouble..." (9:14)**

#9 "It Is The One Ring" (7:25)** (includes Green Dragon source music)

#10 "The Journey Begins" (2:39)** (includes The Passing Of The Elves)

#11 "The Treason Of Isengard" (4:02)**

#12 "The Black Rider" (3:52)**

#13: "At The Sign of The Prancing Pony/Journey To Rivendell" (6:30)** (includes source music, the Lay Of Leithan[sp?])

#14 "A Knife In The Dark/Flight To The Ford" (12:32)**

64.10 Of music, 30.38 released

Disc Two:

#1: "Many Meetings" (4:19)**

#3: "Aniron" (2:02)*

#4: "Men? Bah!" (3:29)

#5 "Aniron" (2:02)**

#6 "The Council Of Elrond" (6:30)**

#7 "The Ring Goes South" (4:43)**

#8 "Rabbi! From Dublin!"(4:20)

#9 "Moria" (4:36)

#10 "The Watcher" (1:34)

#11 "Journey In The Dark" (8:46)**

#12 "The Bridge Of Khazad Dum" (12:08)**

55.24 of music, 13.53 released

Disc Three:

#1 "Lothlorien" (7:25)**

#2 "Lament For Gandalf/Silver Trumpets" (3:03)**

#3 "The Mirror Of Galadriel" (5:18)**

#4 "The Fighting Uruk-hai/Gifts Of Galadriel/The Great River" (11:33)**

#5 "Boromir Succumbs" (2:40)

#6 "That Which It Defends" (8:10)**

#7 "The Passing Of Boromir" (1:55)**

#8 "The Breaking Of The Fellowship/In Dreams/May It Be" (11:39)*

#9 "The Breaking of the Fellowship(Alternate)"(6:20)

58.03 music, 27.24 released

[*=released, **=partially released]

ttbk,

[Incanus 5,714]

Wow that is a better list than I could have made (or would have bothered for that matter). It looks very nice but is pure conjecture even if its based on Doug Adams' description of the cue arrangement. Also the way they are going to handle the alternates is still unclear. Are they going to include them at the end of the discs or on the last disc or on the DVD or what? I myself am waiting for the release for the cue list. I do not want to speculate (even though it is fun ) since it only adds my anticipation, which is already high enough.

#8 "Rabbi! From Dublin!"(4:20) LOL LOL

( you do know it's "Crebain! From Dunland!")

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

I had not listened to it for a long time, and I was surprised how rich the score sounded, and how huge (was this recorded in a church)

I don't know where it was recorded (I only have a CDR so far). Many of Deutsche Grammophon's recordings (including the Karajan recordings) until the late 70s (early 80s?) were recorded at the Jesus Christus Kirche in Berlin, and in fact Marco Polo's Captain Blood compilation was recorded there as well. But I don't think I know of any original soundtracks that were recorded in a church. Would be interesting.

Here's a link to the MM.com thread with Doug Adams giving more or less detailed info on the set.

Marian -

[Lurker 5]

"You are all weirdos".

Neil - who thinks Superman is Williams at his best

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You silly American!

[Incanus 5,714]

I made myself a promise I won't get into a debate about Superman here but still (so much for that promise) I must say I concur with Steef and Marian about the score. The beginning before Metropolis contains the strongest music of the score although the score is there with Williams' best. Of course Flying Sequence and Love theme are highlights of the second half of the score. THe action music is better in the end of the movie as well.

I wonder have they yet nailed the final design of the Box as Doug said they have been working on it for quite awhile?

BTW I am so jealous to Doug (explanation in the quote):">>>Given what the LOTR scores sound like in the films, I would think that the tracks would be the lengths of cues, which wouldn't be so bad.>>>

This is pretty much dead on. And don’t worry, it’s quite easy to navigate to favorite moments. Heck, I’ve been doing it while typing just to answer a few of these questions.

I think this is one of the perks of being associated closely with the LOTR scores, a preview version of the set (that what I presume Doug has got).

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Well since he's writing a book about it I'm sure he has had acces to these scores for a long time now.

[Incanus 5,714]

Quite true but that does not lessen my jealousy

It would have been wonderful to be there on the recording sessions and part of the whole scoring process (even as a spectator).

Actually any Williams recording session would do just fine

[Incanus 5,714]

I just realized Doug never said anything about the lyrics. Are they included in the set? His book will contain all the lyrics for all the choral works but does the FOTR box have them. I said earlier they are important to me (though not vital) but I would not want to hear an opera without libretto or understanding what the singers are saying. LOTR choir pieces (I am repeating my old words here) are linked to the scenes (choir is not in supporting cast so to speak) and the lyrics have a meaning in the scene unlike in many modern movie scores where choir is only there for the texture. I really wish Doug would clarify this.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Frankly I care more about the mood of the choral pieces then the lyrics.

[Incanus 5,714]

The mood is very important in the choir pieces but why put words into the music if not to say something important (or maybe all said is not important) in your "song". Words do give music a different tone than just a wordless choir. But here is once again a matter of taste. I am not a big fan of Wagner's opera soloist music (I hate the female soloists. Wagner's Brunnhilde is a much caricatured portrait of a female singer that screams on the stage with a high pitched voice armed with spear and dressed in funny armor and that is very much what I think of them (too many WB cartoons I guess )

Shore's female and other soloists on the other hand are of different kind (thank God!). They are not meant to sing like in Wagner's operas and they were chosen very specifically for their voice to sing the parts. Renée Fleming sounds to me the most operatic singer of the whole group of LOTR soloists and she is an opera singer. I think Shore uses different soloists' respective talents deftly and beautifully. I got little sidetracked here but it's not the first time

I still think if you use lyrics in a piece it is nice to know what the choir'/soloist is saying even if the music in itself conveys the feeling or mood. E.g. Forth Eorlingas is a fantastic piece of music that needs no translations or lyrics to make an impact but the words add a new depth to the music.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yep....

[Incanus 5,714]

Doug just answered my post and he said the lyrics are going to be in the Box so there is one thing less to worry about. He was being little dodgy about it since he is not allowed to reveal too much info but the lyrics are there non the less.

[Incanus 5,714]

I think it is official that the Boxed set will be released on December 6th. I was in denial untill today when I having gone through every internet CD store available to me found they all seem to have the release dated for December.Some later some on the 6th of December. And I was still hoping it would be a bad dream and the Box would have come out on 22nd of November :cry: I have to face the hard reality and two more weeks of waiting.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

It may leak sooner in some stores...

[Incanus 5,714]

I live in Finland and here it is a miracle if something is released on the actual release date(I am talking about the soundtracks here). TTT soundtrack though came 2 or 3 days before the actual release date but I am not so hopeful for this Box. I have tried to make inquiries in our local stores just to make them aware of the Box set. None had any idea it was coming (not so surprising). I really hope Warner will distribute it here in Scandinavia at the same date as elsewhere. I'm pissed off since I have to wait for some CD releases months before they appear along with the movie or in some cases not at all. The FOTR is a special release so I think Warner will advertise it to the stores through their Finnish distributor (whose web site had no information concerning the Box not even the press release). These 2 months will be a tiem of great anxiety. 8O

[Lurker 5]

Continuation of the topic found here.

Neil

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Neil!

Could you unlock the old thread and try to post?

I think that will fix the page, and that was what happened in the giacchino thread too...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You can still find all the post by clicking on page 11 instead of 12.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

mmmmm.

Im saying that i think there is not an error in the forums, just that sometimes, when a message is the last on a page (maybe depending on the message length), the forums create the new page, but there are no messages in it yet. I wanted Neil to check if posting a message will fix the 'error' message ans show the new post...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

This error only happens with extremely long threads, and it only gets worse.

[Incanus 5,714]

So the thread is not working. Bummer How long does it take to get it fixed?

[Lurker 5]

So the thread is not working. Bummer  How long does it take to get it fixed?

This thread is the fix.

Neil

[Incanus 5,714]

Right. Sorry for nagging for no reason then.

[Justin 2]

So.....how bought that ring, eh?

Justin

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Justin, that is not a correct sentence!

[ChrisAfonso 186]

So.....how bought that ring, eh?  

Justin

Well, I went into the jewel shop and...

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

This must be Harry Potter's trickery.

Why is his thread the only one who spans infinite pages?

Black magic is working here...

[Incanus 5,714]

I am still making inquiries at every CD store here in Helsinki and there no word about the Box. Every store is as baffled by my question "Do you know when the complete recording of FOTR is going to be released?" as the next. I know it's two months before the release but I do not understand why WB does not send information about it well beforehand. Other "more regular and main stream" releases are reported months ahead but not soundtracks. And the lack of helpfulness only shows their ignorance, though I am aware that soundtracks do not have the biggest selling records in the market. Still it would be nice if even one of the sales clerck would be interested in soundtracks even a little even if they do not contain the newest hits from HIM.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Sounds pretty normal to me.

[Incanus 5,714]

I heard Howard Shore's interview in NPR just an hour ago and while they talked about the History of Violence in the show LOTR was mentioned many times. Shore mentioned in passing that LOTR has something like 70 motifs and how it was a piece that he gradually grew more and more fond of writing. The music and the process of continually working on the project felt very natural to him after all that time. He was positively grinning when they asked him about the upcoming Box set(I could almost se him beaming with pride and happiness through my speakers, such was the sound in his voice ). I am very happy for him and for us the audience.

Bugger. That only added to my anticipation of December

- Incanus who has given up his dreams and hopes(and delusions) of November release of the BOX-