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Rank the Star Wars Movies


robthehand

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16 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

The spin off movies I'm far from sold on them needing to exist.

 

14 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

Have you seen Rogue One or Solo?

 

7 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

Yes?

 

I'd say you're sold!

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8 hours ago, Chen G. said:

I wouldn't know how to do a rigorous list.

 

I do think Empire Strikes Back is superior in every single metric to the original Star Wars, especially as far as the director's work is involved: its way better shot and way, way better acted. I watched the sextet for the first time just a couple of years ago, and I wasn't really getting "into it" until I watched Empire Strikes Back. It was great! It juggles two subplots: one, a fast-paced chase; the other - a slow, pensive training montage. And it interweaves them so masterfully that the former doesn't become breathless and overwhelming, and the latter doesn't become boring.

 

I dislike Attack of the Clones the most. I really don't think anything in that film works. I hear a lot of people really like Ewan McGregor as Obi Wan in it: I don't see it. Because of how Anakin is behaving throughout the film, it brings Obi Wan down, too: the way he chastizes Anakin in public is so awkward, and its soon followed by Obi Wan doing the same thing he was telling Aankin not to do. Also, his investigation subplot leaves all sorts of threads unresolved, only for him to end up reaching the same conclusion that Padme reached in the very beginning of the film, only to be told off by Windu.

I wouldn't say the prequels are pristine, nor is the OT. I do think that both prequels and OT are canon. The sequel trilogy is just made for financial purposes without Lucas' involvement. JK Rowling can claim Cursed Child is official Harry Potter material, but for me it never will be either. Add to that that I spent the final hour of TLJ laughing and waiting apathetically for it to be over...

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9 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

 

 

 

I'd say you're sold!

 

I'm sold on seeing them, because they got that Star Wars brand on them and play in my local cinema.  I'm not sold on them needing to exist.  I guess it says something about my politics that "ability to make money" is not a reason to exist in and of itself.

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14 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

I'd say you're sold!

 

3 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

I'm sold on seeing them, because they got that Star Wars brand on them and play in my local cinema.  I'm not sold on them needing to exist.  I guess it says something about my politics that "ability to make money" is not a reason to exist in and of itself.

Well, yes. That will soon be my approach with these movies. Once the Skywalker saga cuts off and the spinoffs get extremely ridiculous, I may not even bother getting them on Blu-Ray:P!

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5 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

 

I'm sold on seeing them, because they got that Star Wars brand on them and play in my local cinema.  I'm not sold on them needing to exist.  I guess it says something about my politics that "ability to make money" is not a reason to exist in and of itself.

 

Well, it's not about your politics. That's just reality!

 

But all that aside, I get your point Disco Stu, but still, I disagree with it. Oh yes, I disagree. I think the Star Wars universe can be expanded way, way beyond the Saga films..there's a lot of material to be mined there. A whole galaxy of it. That it hasn't been done quite perfectly yet doesn't mean there's no possibility, and potential.  We're only two movies into the stories.

 

You politics allow for optimism and hope, no?  Perchance, to dream?

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1 hour ago, bollemanneke said:

The sequel trilogy is just made for financial purposes without Lucas' involvement.

 

I'm pretty sure you're gonna need to lump the prequel trilogy into the “made for financial purposes" category as well.. Those movies were only made for profit. Lucas never had any intention of making them after Return of the Jedi. Lucasfilm desperately needed a money maker. The only parts of the company making any sort of money was its subsidiary departments (ILM, Skywalker Sound, etc). Lucasfilm needed a hit. They had too many flops on their hands. The "special edition" re-releases of the OT were made to test the waters; did the general public still want Star Wars? If those had underperformed or failed, then any pre-production on The Phantom Menace would have likely halted.

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3 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

 

Well, it's not about your politics. That's just reality!

 

But all that aside, I get your point Disco Stu, but still, I disagree with it. Oh yes, I disagree. I think the Star Wars universe can be expanded way, way beyond the Saga films..there's a lot of material to be mined there. A whole galaxy of it. That it hasn't been done quite perfectly yet doesn't mean there's no possibility, and potential.  We're only two movies into the stories.

 

You politics allow for optimism and hope, no?  Perchance, to dream?

 

I agree.  That’s not what they’ve done so far.  They’ve done prequels.

 

Since I loved TLJ I’m quite hopeful for Johnson’s trilogy that probably won’t start releasing for many years, if at all.  But I hope!

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For what it's worth (which, probably, isn't much)

THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

THE LAST JEDI

RETURN OF THE JEDI

STAR WARS

THE PHANTOM MENACE

REVENGE OF THE SITH

ATTACK OF THE CLONES

THE FORCE AWAKENS

ROGUE ONE

 

 

I haven't seen SOLO

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4 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

 

I agree.  That’s not what they’ve done so far.  They’ve done prequels.

 

 

Indeed. Both Star Wars and Star Trek have displayed an annoying proclivity to look backwards in trying to tell "new" stories.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Sharky said:

The Force Awakens just had such a great economy of storytelling.

 

Maybe because it was already written as A New Hope years ago.

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8 minutes ago, Demodex said:

Maybe because it was already written as A New Hope years ago.

 

This really isn't true. Both movies feature similar plot points that are used in completely different ways. I'd argue TPM has more in common with ANH than TFA.

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16 minutes ago, Demodex said:

Maybe because it was already written as A New Hope years ago.

 

It's more of a clever remixing and subversion of Lucas' original trilogy, in the same way Lucas recycled and toyed around with The Wizard of Oz, Joseph Campbell's Hero's Journey and Kurosawa's Hidden Fortress.

 

You're talking about the global narrative, which follows a familiar set of archetypes, while I'm looking at it on a more localized level. I'm praising the concision of individual scenes, character beats and lines of dialogue.

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4 minutes ago, John said:

I'd argue TPM has more in common with ANH than TFA.

 

The only thing I see in common between ANH and TPM is the death of a main character at the end.   TFA is nearly the same movie as ANH.

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5 minutes ago, Demodex said:

 TFA is nearly the same movie as ANH.

 

Sorry, but that is utter bullshit.

 

You can keep saying it over and over again till the cows come home, but it won't make it any more true.

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7 minutes ago, Demodex said:

The only thing I see in common between ANH and TPM is the death of a main character at the end.   TFA is nearly the same movie as ANH.

Hold on. I see TPM

Image result for qui gon death

TFA

Spoiler

Image result for han solo death

But also ANH

Image result for kenobi death

Even ROTS if you want to go that far

Image result for padme death

And more recently TLJ

Spoiler

Image result for luke death scene

So if the main point on similarities is people dying at the end of the movie, you may want to find a better argument, because that's how SW is.

 

Whoops, I forgot

Spoiler

All of Rogue One too.

Image result for rogue one death scene

 

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19 minutes ago, Demodex said:

The only thing I see in common between ANH and TPM is the death of a main character at the end.

 

TPM has female royalty in need of rescue; so does ANH.

TPM has a Jedi master and his entourage venturing into a settlement on Tatooine to find a way to get off the planet; so does ANH.

TPM has a young pilot found on Tatooine destined to become a Jedi; so does ANH.

TPM has a lightsaber duel where a Jedi master is slain before his pupil by a bad guy robed in black; so does ANH.

TPM has a space battle where the young pilot who has never flown a ship of this kind before manages to destroy the baddies' space station; so does ANH.

TPM ends with an awards ceremony; so does ANH.

 

The same plot similarities that TFA has to ANH, TPM already has equivalent similarities. But for some reason, Lucas gets a pass for recycling stuff (heck, in his second sequel he did another Death Star! And the rebels know how to destroy it because some other rebels stole the plans!) and Disney gets flack for it.

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23 minutes ago, Sharky said:

You're talking about the global narrative, which follows a familiar set of archetypes, while I'm looking at it on a more localized level. I'm praising the concision of individual scenes, character beats and lines of dialogue.

 

 

Seems like Kasdan had a particular influence on all that.

 

 

Hope Abrams takes those lessons to heart without him hanging around on IX. Although I suspect Abrams may be asking him for notes.

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I honestly didn't see those similarities in TPM until you pointed them out.  That movie seems so wildly different from ANH to me, whereas in TFA you have the same beginning as ANH (good guy hides something bad guys want in a droid, which happens to be on a desert world), an orphaned hero on said desert planet, said hero escaping desert planet on the Falcon, and a superweapon that can destroy planets.  There's even X-wings in a trench run to destroy it!  

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1. Star Wars

2. The Empire Strikes Back

3. Return of the Jedi

4. Rogue One

5. The Phantom Menace

6. The Force Awakens

7. Revenge of the Sith

8. Attack of the Clones

9. Solo

10. The first Ewok TV movie (Caravan of Courage I think?)

11. Clone Wars (the crappy animated movie)

12. The second Ewok TV movie (Battle of Endor?)

13. The Last Jedi

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41 minutes ago, John said:

for some reason, Lucas gets a pass for recycling stuff (heck, in his second sequel he did another Death Star! And the rebels know how to destroy it because some other rebels stole the plans!) and Disney gets flack for it.

 

He doesn't get a free pass from me. Return of the Jedi is nearly as much a recreation of the original Star Wars (to the point of reusing some of the same footage) as The Force Awakens is. Two wrongs don't make a right, though.

 

 Where The Force Awakens doesn't take from the original Star Wars, it draws from its drafts and where it doesn't take from those, it does from the other two films and their drafts. It even recreates specific shots. Its not a deal-breaker to me in watching it, but its certainly there.

 

As for the prequels, there are thematic and structural similarities, but it never feels like the characters nor I watching it, are being made to tread the same path, narrativelly.

 

And while the immediate instigator to making the prequels was financial (what big production isn't?), Lucas at least build some groundwork for them with the numbering of the episodes and with all manner of references to past events in his existing films and by re-editing the existing films to accomodate for them. Whereas any plans he had for a sequel trilogy were shut down entirely by Return of the Jedi.

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47 minutes ago, Sharky said:

Johnson has an incredible eye for purely visual storytelling, but his writing and direction of actors leave a lot to be desired (the later not being an issue for Hamill, Driver, Gleeson, and Isaac, but rather the less experienced members of the cast). It's all a bit heavy and ponderous, making me long for Kasdan's screwball wit and Abrams, Brandon and Markey's boundless energy. The Force Awakens just had such a great economy of storytelling. Real verve.

 

Perhaps a little too economical, would you say? You could play a drinking game with how many times characters are having a conversation that's about to actually go somewhere, then gets cut off by some explosion or other "gotta keep it moving!" device. Were they afraid to get a little deeper, or take their conversations to an actual conclusion? A lot of people seem to conflate fun with absolutely vapid, but there are so many examples where fun and digging into the characters are not mutually exclusive.

 

Consider the bar scene in Raiders, when Marion and Indy first catch up. A great scene that adds a lot of shading to the two of them... but if it was written Force Awakens style, Toht would've barged in on them halfway through their conversation before they really said anything! Or the blimp scene in Last Crusade, since you're so fond of that one, Sharky. Yes, there's the moment where Indy realizes the ship's being turned around, but the conversation beforehand feels like it reached its climax, and furthermore, its unfinished thread(s) get picked up later in the film.

 

Also, I don't consider The Force Awaken's superficial similarity to the original a problem, I think its derivative problems lie elsewhere. But at least The Phantom Menace actually takes itself seriously. George Lucas once said that the original was criticized for not being hip or self-aware, that it was too earnest and naive for some people. I wish in all of Abrams' desperate attempts to recapture his action figure days with the original, he had picked up on that aspect.

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9 hours ago, Obi said:

1 - A New Hope
tumblr_p2tvadgMnd1wjld8qo3_540.gif

 

2 - The Empire Strikes Back
tumblr_p6jxdgsEsA1sah3xwo1_540.gif

 

3 - Revenge of the Sith
tumblr_ol3eky6EOu1t3zl0lo2_500.gif

 

 

4 - The Force Awakens
tumblr_ol3eky6EOu1t3zl0lo1_500.gif

 

5 - Return of the Jedi
tumblr_p7v47hltVi1v4w5ico2_540.gif

 

6 - Rogue One
tumblr_p8b2r1cUN81w67ki0o2_540.gif

 

7 - Solo
tumblr_p82xllJD0I1x6lwg9o1_540.gif

 

8 - The Last Jedi
tumblr_p8cl04X6111w4t7wqo3_540.gif

 

9 - The Phantom Menace
tumblr_p5qwd1x5O31r0ecrho2_540.gif

 

10 - Attack of the Clones
 

 

 

Your rankings, while respectable, are a little bit off (though you come closer to getting it right than anyone else I think).

 

But I'm liking this just for the gorgeous GIFs. 

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Quote

 But at least The Phantom Menace actually takes itself seriously.

 

Yeah, but too seriously. And that's one of its critical flaws. Everything in it so patently ridiculous--a queen dressed as a fucking Christmas decoration; a villain with devil horns and halloween facepaint; uncomfortable alien caricatures of Jamaicans and East-Asians that attempt to hearken back to an earlier era of film; an irritating little brat who just happens to also be an inventor and an ace pilot. That would be all fine and credible if it was done with some self-awareness, but the whole thing is so bloody stolid. There's no warm, relatable character on screen, absolutely no one around with a pulse. They're all just mouthpieces for exposition or stage props to furnish George Lucas's resplendent imagination. Rey may be a bit overpowered, but at least she has some semblance of a personality, or "spunk" to quote Snoke's unfortunate turn of phrase.

 

Re-visiting A New Hope, for all the cornball earnestness and grammatically egregious dialogue ("given clairvoyance enough to find the Rebels' hidden fortress" anyone?) there's a lovely mischievous, even subversive glint in its eye. It's mostly delivered through Guinness' performance, but Ford deals out his share. Unscripted eye rolls, improvised antics ("We're fine. We're all fine here, now, thank you. How are you?")--small gestures that gently poke fun at the absurdity of Lucas' creation.

 

Force Awakens is far from a perfect Star Wars film, but it reintroduced that irreverence back into the SW universe, even if it did overstep the mark on occasion. For that I'm thankful.

 

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1 hour ago, The Illustrious Jerry said:

I love how people hate on their least favorite by ranking the Ewok adventures above it.

 

Your class is phenomenal.

 

I actually love the Ewok movies.

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Which was the one with the cool witch as a villain?

 

The scoutmaster of my Cub Scout troop had a copy on film and we used to watch that one projected on a sheet when I was a kid.

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4 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

 

Yes?

 

 

 

AOTC had a saggy middle, but a very rousing finale.  It was so cool as all plot threads clicked into place and you realized that this was the beginning of the Empire and that Palpatine was playing both sides.

 

It also has See Threepio switching heads with a battle droid, Samuel L. Jackson with a purple lightsaber decapitating a guy and Natalie falling out of the ship and rolling through sand. Awesome flick.

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43 minutes ago, Batman's Diet Coke said:

Take a shot every time Padme changes her wardrobe. I call it aggressive negotiations!

My time on these forums is complete! Goodness mate, you just put the prequels into perspective through one sentence.

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@Sharky True, The Phantom Menace has practically no sense of humor or vitality. But with The Force Awakens, it made a joke of almost everything! I rewatched it with some friends last year, and ine of them summed my feelings up very succinctly: "It's a movie that knows you're watching it." The Last Jedi had that problem too, at parts, but overall I felt like there were actual stakes I could get invested in.

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1 hour ago, Nick1066 said:

 

Indeed.  Let's face it, ten films on, Star Wars, like the Alien movies, is a franchise built on two undisputed classics.  The rest are a handful of good, but not great films rounded out by a couple outright clunkers.

 

This should be the final word on the matter.  Period.  Full Stop.

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GREAT FIPMS IN ORDER OF GREATNESS, Star Wars, TESB, TFA,

 

JUST OKAY MOVIES,  ROTJ, TLJ, SOLO

 

MEDIOCRE FILMS, TPM, R1

 

SHIT films, AKA LOSER FILMS,  ROTS,  AOTC

Star Wars is easily the greatest film and by far the greatest score of the series. Life is so much better because Star Wars exists. Not anh.

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4 hours ago, The Illustrious Jerry said:

I love how people hate on their least favorite by ranking the Ewok adventures above it.

 

Your class is phenomenal.

 

I love that no one's included the Holiday Special...

 

Yet.

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9 hours ago, Demodex said:

 TFA is nearly the same movie as ANH.

 

9 hours ago, Sharky said:

 

Sorry, but that is utter bullshit.

 

You can keep saying it over and over again till the cows come home, but it won't make it any more true.

 

Ok, Skarky, so why is TFA not like ANH, because, from where I'm sitting, they're almost exactly the same film?

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This video quickly breaks down some of the differences and goes along the lines of what Sharky was saying. It's not a remake of ANH, but rather the entire OT.

 

 

As he says, whether that actually makes it better or no different or even worse is up to you, but I think that's a better conversation starter. The "ANH remake" thing always falls apart whereas a self-referential "remix" of three movies is more accurate and something that can be reasonably praised as well as criticized.

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TFA was Disney's way of showing fans that they are able and willing to do something more like the OT than the Prequels to gain their trust. I can totally get behind that, it's just a pity it was an Episode instead of a disposeable sipnoff in my opinion. And obviously, with possibly the world's worst fanbase at the moment, it did not work.

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